Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:12

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12

In my simple mind, I believe that being lawless means disobedience of the law and/or having no law or the rejection of the law.

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load. Galatians 6:2-5

Love One Another
This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 3:11,23-24

Love is the fulfilment of the law. (Romans 13:8-14)

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Walk in Love.

God's love endures forever.

Amen,

LOVE is the fulfiment of the law

And where do we get this love? Form the law?

“We love because he first loved us”

People want to look to the law to see how to love, and hope to fulfill the law in their wn strength and power (a futile endeavor)

instead of looking to Christ to see what true love is, and by learning to love as he loved, by nature fulfill the law by Gods strength

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is very specific what He will do in the end. It will be a day of Judgment. Eternal life or lake of fire. Choose life or die. No evil will pass through.

A believer will not be at the great white throne judgment, He will be at the bema seat judgment

Chose this day which judgment you are participate in.

Me, I will be risen by Christ, not delivered to him/ Learn the difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isn't that like OSAS? One party can't just change their mind and the promises stay the same. Jesus side is for sure, that much is for sure, it's that free will side that is so unpredictable

Thats why not everyone who believes in eternal secruity has been saved, many licentious people out there who think because they said some prayer they are in.

TRUE faith is what saves,

And those saved by God and adopted by him, Have no issue with free will. They experienced his true love and his true power. They would never CHOSE to leave

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Aren't our good works something that the Holy Spirit inside us leads us unto? As evidence of our salvation, not proof tasks that insure we keep our salvation.

I call good works the producing the fruit of the spirit..it is the work which proceeds from the power of the HS, which produces fruit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know that if people can get their head around this it could clear up MANY points of contention!

SG

How can we get it around?

Moses gave the ten commands, then gave some more.

Then made the children of Isreal confirm that they would obey every word of that law given It was PART OF THE COVENANT.

If its not true, you must reject it.

And what the judiaser said, is not true.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

About the free will, this is explained by the Father's foreknowledge, we are not pre-programmed, Jesus just "knows His sheep":
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

It's like you know your good friend, and because you know them, you can predict with certainty what they'll do.
(How much more for God who has supernatural mind, and knows every intricate detail about us)
So the predestination vs the free will is reconciled by God being able to foresee into the future, being eternal God.

About why does God also bring the wicked into the world alongside the righteous, that is a very good question.
Maybe because He wanted them to have an experience of life and free will, even though He knew they would still choose to hate Him ultimately. Maybe He had to bring them into the world to love them still anyway, because He is the God of love. It's deep stuff to pray about.

They seem to have a war against calvinistic thinking, and think we all think that way

So they can not fathom that we believed in total 100% free will

Which is why they can not understand what we believe, and why they continue to say things about us which are so far from the truth, they are almost laughable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you are mistaken here, because OSAS (we on the forum that do follow Jesus, not megachurches) do not teach salvation can be lost. We do teach eternal security in God as the Scriptures say. We also teach it goes with obedience as the fruit of faith. We cannot teach anything different, such as loss of salvation, because this is not the Gospel... we must only teach the Gospel. People who imagine they can abuse the blood of Grace are fools and will receive due punishment.

Praying for you bro. I hope God uses you to show them what we really believe,,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are not fighting, we are talking. You are my family in Jesus.
.

Thats the other issue which I wish would come to an end. The thinking we are fighting because we disagree..

That is a self protection mechanism. Not a form of debate

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey NayborBear,

It is very obvious that the one thing that "obedience", "repentance", "works", etc have in common is what a mans heart, when yielded to the Holy Spirit, does, and that is go into action! These are the exact words that many scoff at though.

Why do you think they scoff so much at our personal desire and enthusiasm to do these things out of Love for our Creator?

SG

Who scoffs at works?

Here you go again making accusation against people, No one I have met in CC scoffs at works. If there has been one, I would love to meet them and try to show them how wrong they are.

I pray one day you practice what you preach.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

it really is sad, they contradict themselves all over the place, play hopscotch all over Scripture, ignore word definitions, and context, yet tell us we " don't get it".


modern day Pharisees , searching the Scriptures , thinking they will find eternal life. the Scripture points to Jesus, but they won't come to Him.....

I am hoping someone can show them, I will let him answer their questions, maybe he can show them what we have been trying to tell them for along time now concerning our faith in God, .. but they refuse to see

 

[Yahshua]

1) The "fullness of the gentiles!"
2) How to "provoke" Israel to jealousy!

Oh wow Nayborbear. This line hit me like a spiritual wrecking ball.

How in the world would it provoke Israel to jealousy completely rejecting everything that was entrusted to Israel first, tossing it away and then doing a completely separate thing?

Have more blessings come gentiles' way as compared to natural Israel because of this? Does natural Israel even care about what gentile believers are currently doing? What makes natural Israel jealous?

Paul explains in Romans 11 that it's to spur them to emulation so as to save them.

No, what would provoke them to jealous is gentiles being a better Israel than natural Israel was.

Good word, Nayborbear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh wow Nayborbear. This line hit me like a spiritual wrecking ball.

How in the world would it provoke Israel to jealousy completely rejecting everything that was entrusted to Israel first, tossing it away and then doing a completely separate thing?

Have more blessings come gentiles' way as compared to natural Israel because of this? Does natural Israel even care about what gentile believers are currently doing? What makes natural Israel jealous?

Paul explains in Romans 11 that it's to spur them to emulation so as to save them.

No, what would provoke them to jealous is gentiles being a better Israel than natural Israel was.

Good word, Nayborbear.

Nah

What would make Israel jealous is that God gave the blessings to the gentiles what he promised to Israel.

Not that gentiles were better people..or better at the law.. No one could ever convince any jew that any gentile was better at the law then them.

Sometimes I think people make stuff up.. They do this to help their own belief system believable.

 

[Yahshua]

I have one question. 2Tim 2:21

How is a Christian purged?

Good word too. We can just let the passage read for what it says. Paul hits every point.

2 Timothy 2:19-26
19 Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

20 A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use. 21 So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit, he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work.

22 Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing. 25 He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.

Note all the action words Paul uses. Good word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good word too. We can just let the passage read for what it says. Paul hits every point.

2 Timothy 2:19-26
19 Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

20 A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use. 21 So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit, he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work.

22 Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing. 25 He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.

Note all the action words Paul uses. Good word.

For by one sacrifice he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER those who are BEING SANCTIFIED.

Whose work is it? Yours or Gods?

I would be ashamed of trying to take credit for the work of God..

Yes in sanctification, we must paetake. But it is STILL gods work. And he also said that work he start in you, HE WILL COMPLETE IT.

When will you start to trust God and stop trusting yourself? (Honest question)

 

[Yahshua]

the transgression HAD ALREADY TAKEN PLACE that caused the law to be added.

What was that transgression? Rejecting Gods Grace and Provision.

The Hebrews wanted to go back to Egypt. They murmured and complained about what God was Providing and doing for them

Well we can go to the record and see how the order of events progressed. We can post passages of the Exodus event if you want?

But remember your original counterpoint was about how the sacrifice/purification laws can't be sectioned off and later removed because they were all one law with the commandments (correctly citing that confirmed covenants can't be changed).

So do you now agree that the animal sacrifices and leviticus rites were given separately after the Sinai covenant was confirmed?

 

[SimpleGardner]

[

Oh wow Nayborbear. This line hit me like a spiritual wrecking ball.

How in the world would it provoke Israel to jealousy completely rejecting everything that was entrusted to Israel first, tossing it away and then doing a completely separate thing?

Have more blessings come gentiles' way as compared to natural Israel because of this? Does natural Israel even care about what gentile believers are currently doing? What makes natural Israel jealous?

Paul explains in Romans 11 that it's to spur them to emulation so as to save them.

No, what would provoke them to jealous is gentiles being a better Israel than natural Israel was.

Good word, Nayborbear.

Greetings Y & NayborBear,

I remember going over this a whole back, Found it-post#2936.

Is this what we are talking about here?

SG

 

[DeighAnn]

I disagree. I had the opposite experience. Surrendering to Jesus changed my life significantly but it was very steep and constant stress and fear (bad kind of fear) because I thought I could "lose" salvation. It was an awful life. To teach a little sheep that is to teach them to be in chronic agony! There were many times I could not sleep and agonized, in fear that God would disown me. It's not right to teach it to anyone. When I received - allowed myself to finally receive - the UNCONDITIONAL love of Jesus by believing eternal security I made some really big spiritual breakthroughs. A lot more joy and peace...

My Reply

I do not know how you can have of a fear of losing salvation when you are loving and following Him. How HIS sacrifice, His voluntary death on the cross, the spirit that dwells within you when you take Him into your life as a comforter and helper on your walk through this world of flesh allowed that within you I can only assume came from who ever taught you of our Lord and Saviour in the first place. What could cause someone who has heard the word to not belive in His saving grace is something I can not understand.

But lets take this on Huge problem.

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
God cut of His own People, IF HE CUT THEM OFF BE CAREFUL HE DOESN'T CUT YOU OFF
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
AND SEVERITY OF GOD, ON THEM WHICH FELL but toward thee IF THOU CONTINUE OR ELSE
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
AND GODS PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T REMAIN IN UNBELIEF MAY COME BACK (THOSE WHO DON'T REMAIN IN UNBELIEF)
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
WHEN THOSE WHO WERE CUT OUT COME TO BELIEF THEY DO VERY WELL
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
DONT BE IGNORANT TO THE MYSTERY AND WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS, THIS IS HAPPENING FOR THE GENTILES TO FIND GOD, SO DON'T GO JUDGING THEM IT IS ALL OF GOD AND IT IS GOD YOU JUDGE
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
ALL OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED WHO? ALL OF ISRAEL . GOD IS TALKING ABOUT ISRAEL NOW
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
BECAUSE HE HAS A COVENANT WITH THEM AND IT IS TO "THEM" WHEN HE TAKES AWAY THEIR SINS
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
THEY ARE ENEMIES FOR YOU, BUT THEY ARE GODS ELECT AND THEY ARE BELOVED BY GOD EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THIS
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
BUT HE HAS A COVENANT WITH THEM AND AS SUCH FOR GODS ELECT HIS GIFTS AND CALLING ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
NOW GOD IS REMINDING YOU THAT YOU IN THE PAST HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, AND NOW YOU ARE OBTAINING MERCY THROUGH WHAT? THROUGH THEIR UNBELIEF
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
AND IT HAPPENS TO AGAIN
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
AND NOW THAT ISRAEL AND THE GENTILES HAVE ALL HAD UNBELIEF AND HAVE FOUND BELIEF THROUGH EACH OTHERS UNBELIEF GOD CAN HAVE MERCY ON ALL
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
SO ALL WE DON'T UNDERSTAND, OR CAN'T FIGURE OUT AS HUMANS IS ALL GODS WILL. HENCE DON'T JUDGE ANOTHER MAN, HE MAY BE GODS SERVANT, ON A MISSION FROM GOD, AND YOU ARE JUDGING HIM BASED ON YOUR MISSION FROM GOD AND GOD DOES NOT LIKE THAT. AND THAT IS HOW YOU WILL BE JUDGED.

 

[DeighAnn]

This is where the true Battlefield is. The hearts and minds of our youth are falling away to the teachings of atheism. This is our battlefield that must be won for the safety of future generations.

tHANK you for these thoughts and observations. What do we do? Do we go to the schools and say we would like to call an assembly to speak to them? Do we go to parks and find people to talk to? Do we start a blog for kids? Do we start videos blogs? Do we run for office? Do we write letters to the President? What do we do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

tHANK you for these thoughts and observations. What do we do? Do we go to the schools and say we would like to call an assembly to speak to them? Do we go to parks and find people to talk to? Do we start a blog for kids? Do we start videos blogs? Do we run for office? Do we write letters to the President? What do we do?

Work out our salvation with fear and trembling, so when the world sees us, they see lights who penetrate the darkness, And they are drawn to that light And we can share with them the truth of God not only in words, but in actions.

 

[SimpleGardner]

It seems both sides are doing it in this whole debate. I was just praying about the miscommunications, the whole forum looks to me like Tower of Babel just crashed, nobody understands nobody anymore. It's kind of insane as you must have noticed.
I get convicted from the Holy Spirit too, "for every son that He receives, also chastises". This is how I know I am His child and born of Him.
And right, this is not works salvation...


There are toxic people in both groups.


The brazen and wicked I said not about you, but about the teaching: "i can live how i want and be secure".
We don't teach such here... at least not the "regular" members. So I think you're preaching to the choir in that sense, we're on the same team.


But the Scripture says the gifts of God are irrevocable. If this is so, then it is not possible for the gift of salvation to be lost. God does not change His mind about setting out to save you. He will make a mighty war. If you received it by faith in Jesus, Jesus works it out and perfects you. I think you make mistake here saying it can be lost.
Calling people to repent, or get saved from unregenerate state, is something completely different and legit.


I disagree. I had the opposite experience. Surrendering to Jesus changed my life significantly but it was very steep and constant stress and fear (bad kind of fear) because I thought I could "lose" salvation. It was an awful life. To teach a little sheep that is to teach them to be in chronic agony! There were many times I could not sleep and agonized, in fear that God would disown me. It's not right to teach it to anyone. When I received - allowed myself to finally receive - the UNCONDITIONAL love of Jesus by believing eternal security I made some really big spiritual breakthroughs. A lot more joy and peace...

I am not saying you are not saved, or anything like that.
Where we disagree is what you want to teach others. One set of beliefs for you, yet another set for others.

I would like to inject a thought.

It is the way of the world today to ask "what's in it for me".

In many ways today that is the way "salvation" is sold.

The theme in scripture is the reuniting of man with God.

But amazingly the primary benefit in many pitches to sinners is how they do not need to go to hell.

But isn't the essence of what true Christianity is is a reversal from seeking our own to seeking what is should be for God and neighbor? A return to selflessness?

Even in this thinking many corrupt it with selfish ambition. "our peace", "our joy", "our salvation", "our, our, our..." these are all byproducts of what true salvation is! A departure from everything being about us. This is where rest and peace comes from. Like the Rich Young Ruler. He may have pinned down keeping the commandments, but he was still fulfilling the lusts of the flesh! That's why Yahshua invited him to go sell all that you have and follow Him. There is no peace or joy if everything you do, including "Gods work" is done for self serving purposes. See 1 Cor 13.