Not By Works

[VCO]

Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit????????

We mere mortals are saved by the testimony of the Holy Spirit who Jesus promised would find to convict us off the sin of unbelief in Jesus.

Jesus was not saved by the Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning of time.

As we know from Genesis.

I have never heard anyone away what you have said.

Please feel free to expand your statement

CORRECT, HE IS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE FATHER ARE PART OF THE SAME DEITY, and:

1 John 3:5 (NIV)
5 But you know that He appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin.

 

[stillness]

Obviously you did not read what @dcontroversal stated.



Nowhere did he say in the above quote that works will not follow faith that gives us salvation.

But he is correct that the things we have done and taught will be tested through the fire but the genuine believer will be saved.
Not based on the quantity of works but the quality.

Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit????????

We mere mortals are saved by the testimony of the Holy Spirit who Jesus promised would find to convict us off the sin of unbelief in Jesus.

Jesus was not saved by the Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning of time.

As we know from Genesis.

I have never heard anyone away what you have said.

Please feel free to expand your statement

Keep in mind Jesus died for us. "The same Spirit thay raised Christ from the dead, shall quiken your mortal body."

 

[Hevosmies358]

What do you call a figment of your imagination?
- A Lutheran evangelist.

TRUE STORY. Four churches in my city do ALL the soul-winning, rest of the churches are orthodox or lutheran and they are dedchurches and I will never get how they havent gone out of business yet since I've never seen them evangelizing.

Not to trash the Lutherans on here btw. LOVE YOU GUYS. But genuinely asking here: Has anyone ever met a Lutheran evangelist/street preacher/something?

NOT a trick question. I've worked with folks from many churches and almost every church I know has some sort of a program for reaching people with the Gospel and i've seen baptists methodists non-denoms pentecostals and even heretical groups like mormons and JWs in the streets. But NEVER have i EVER seen a Lutheran evangelist and I live in a country thats on PAPER (i said ON PAPER) 70% Lutheran.

Do the Missouri Synod folks in USA evangelize one bit or are they closed in over there as well? How are their numbers, up or down?

Yo H. why did you type this to Not by Works thread this got nothing to do with the topic? Cause its the most POPPIN' thread on here and I dont wanna start a new one for one simple question. IM SURE dcon will let it slide!

 

[stillness]

What do you call a figment of your imagination?
- A Lutheran evangelist.

TRUE STORY. Four churches in my city do ALL the soul-winning, rest of the churches are orthodox or lutheran and they are dedchurches and I will never get how they havent gone out of business yet since I've never seen them evangelizing.

Not to trash the Lutherans on here btw. LOVE YOU GUYS. But genuinely asking here: Has anyone ever met a Lutheran evangelist/street preacher/something?

NOT a trick question. I've worked with folks from many churches and almost every church I know has some sort of a program for reaching people with the Gospel and i've seen baptists methodists non-denoms pentecostals and even heretical groups like mormons and JWs in the streets. But NEVER have i EVER seen a Lutheran evangelist and I live in a country thats on PAPER (i said ON PAPER) 70% Lutheran.

Do the Missouri Synod folks in USA evangelize one bit or are they closed in over there as well? How are their numbers, up or down?

Yo H. why did you type this to Not by Works thread this got nothing to do with the topic? Cause its the most POPPIN' thread on here and I dont wanna start a new one for one simple question. IM SURE dcon will let it slide!

It is related,, "The harvest is great but tbe workers are few." How does it slide with someone who believes not by works. The trouble I have is to see someone defend the staatment: not by works at any cost, at the cost of walking in Love. That alone is warning that its wrong.

 

[Melach]

It is related,, "The harvest is great but tbe workers are few." How does it slide with someone who believes not by works. The trouble I have is to see someone defend the staatment: not by works at any cost, at the cost of walking in Love. That alone is warning that its wrong.

big bro is not saying he doesnt believe in evangelism. but no works for salvation. after salvation yes works like eph 2:8-10 i said earlier.

cost of walking in love? all works salvationists love to talk about love God is love. love love. but wrong gospel love doesnt help. mormons are nice and loving and unsaved.

 

[stillness]

That we are called to work with God is evident, "Why do you stant here all day idle?' 'Because no one hired us.' 'Go also in My vineyard and what is right i will give you.'
You also believe in work: you work hard at maintaining that you dont have to work. People often say one thing and do another, and Im no better; trying to help others see diferently and only reenforcing their view: much like you do, we are not wise. The Lord told me almost 4 years ago: I dont need your help. In that sence its defenitly not by works. Thankfully God dosent need my help, I need His help to see and live diferently. There's a saying: Everyone knows something you dont, we just need to be able to hear. Ok so God dosent need me to help you see diferently and I pray to take it to heart not to come here anymore.

 

[VCO]

What do you call a figment of your imagination?
- A Lutheran evangelist.

TRUE STORY. Four churches in my city do ALL the soul-winning, rest of the churches are orthodox or lutheran and they are dedchurches and I will never get how they havent gone out of business yet since I've never seen them evangelizing.

Not to trash the Lutherans on here btw. LOVE YOU GUYS. But genuinely asking here: Has anyone ever met a Lutheran evangelist/street preacher/something?

NOT a trick question. I've worked with folks from many churches and almost every church I know has some sort of a program for reaching people with the Gospel and i've seen baptists methodists non-denoms pentecostals and even heretical groups like mormons and JWs in the streets. But NEVER have i EVER seen a Lutheran evangelist and I live in a country thats on PAPER (i said ON PAPER) 70% Lutheran.

Do the Missouri Synod folks in USA evangelize one bit or are they closed in over there as well? How are their numbers, up or down?

Yo H. why did you type this to Not by Works thread this got nothing to do with the topic? Cause its the most POPPIN' thread on here and I dont wanna start a new one for one simple question. IM SURE dcon will let it slide!

My oh My. Now you have stepped in the biggest mud puddle in the Cow Lot, and proceeded to stomp around in it. I guess you could say I am one, that used to be a Lutheran evangelist. At least I used to go to TWO, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, in my life since I was Born Again. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, has nearly 3.5 million Christians as members, but the Bible says FEW FIND THE NARROW GATE TO ENTER, but a significant part their membership is Born Again. You are right about the Missouri Synod, and the Wisconsin Synod. They think to evangelize someone is Works Righteousness, so they do not teach Born Again. What they do not understand is this VERSE:

1 Corinthians 12:3 (NASB)
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," [As a CONFESSION] except by the Holy Spirit.

I left that denomination years ago, because they Voted to Ordain Women, which I BELIEVE that decision violates 1 Tim. Chapter 3:1-7. Since that happened, they have decided to go deeper into Political Correctness: The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) has become the first North American denomination to declare itself a sanctuary church body for illegal immigrants, which I BELIEVE that decision violates Rom. 13:1-8, and 1 Pet. 2:13-17. TWO WRONGS NEVER DID MAKE A RIGHT. So I am glad that I no longer associate with them. In my opinion they chose to become Liberal Evangelicals, and I am a very Conservative Evangelical.

No, I am not offended, but there are Born Again Lutherans.

 

[cv5]

Yes

IF THEY FALL AWAY,

The law states salvation can be lost. And must be renewed based on the day of atonement or animal sacrifice. Or the person had to be perfect free from ALL sin, (impossible)

This is the argument, If (it were possible) for someone to fall away, they could never be renewed.

Why? The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin. So why would you apostatize and go back to law where there is no hope.

Since Jesus will never die again, if there is a sin that can cause a person to fall away, there is no hope of repentance. .

I think you nailed it.

 

[cv5]

Ok being dumb here.

Can one make Jesus saviour yet not make him Lord?

If so is not something missing here?
Aka discipleship?

Jesus is already Lord. The more we acknowledge this fact in our pilgrimage, the more fruit we will bear IMO.

 

[cv5]

Can anyone expand on why the word did fall away in Hebrews is "parapipto" which is suggested as being figurative of apostasy.

Yet the word for apostasy is "Apostasia"

Found in

2 Thessalonians 2:3
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition (NKJV)

Note falling away

Yet is ESV/NLT it's "Rebellion"

2 Thessalonians 2:3
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

And in Acts it's "foresake"

Acts 21:21
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

In the NKJV/ESV.

There is a strong case to be made that the meaning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is "THE DEPARTURE" aka Rapture. Reinforced in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. Same entities (the Church and the man of sin), same context, however the term is "taken out of the way" which is parallel to "the apostasy".

 

[VCO]

Keep in mind Jesus died for us. "The same Spirit thay raised Christ from the dead, shall quiken your mortal body."

So you do not believe JESUS meant what HE said ? ? ?


John 2:19-22 (HCSB)
19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days.”
20 Therefore the Jews said, “This sanctuary took 46 years to build, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking about the sanctuary of His body.
22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. And they believed the Scripture and the statement Jesus had made.

 

[VCO]

There is a strong case to be made that the meaning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is "THE DEPARTURE" aka Rapture. Reinforced in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. Same entities (the Church and the man of sin), same context, however the term is "taken out of the way" which is parallel to "the apostasy".

It is the OPPOSITE of the APOSTASY. You need you read a thread I started a few years ago.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

 

[cv5]

So you do not believe JESUS meant what HE said ? ? ?


John 2:19-22 (HCSB)
19 Jesus answered, “Destroy this sanctuary, and I will raise it up in three days.”
20 Therefore the Jews said, “This sanctuary took 46 years to build, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking about the sanctuary of His body.
22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. And they believed the Scripture and the statement Jesus had made.

commentary on my post is welcome. I said strong case. IMO "the departure" is the applicable term in context. The alternative make no sense.....in context.

 

[cv5]

It is the OPPOSITE of the APOSTASY. You need you read a thread I started a few years ago.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

I am not sure why you disagree, but I am fully convinced of the Pre-Trib Rapture, as evidently you do also. I am pointing out that Paul is referring to a Pre-Trib Rapture in 2 Thess 2, despite the controversy. The question is who and when. In this passage it is the Church (the Bride) and pre-wrath. OT saints are a different time and space.

 

[cv5]

It is the OPPOSITE of the APOSTASY. You need you read a thread I started a few years ago.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

I read your link. Well spoken and insightful, I have no disagreements, other than possibly the inclusion of the OT Saints. I will need to review the question of the OT Saints being included as you say.

 

[cv5]

It is the OPPOSITE of the APOSTASY. You need you read a thread I started a few years ago.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bride-to-go-to-the-wedding-of-the-lamb.95283/

There is a strong case to be made that the meaning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is "THE DEPARTURE" aka Rapture. Reinforced in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. Same entities (the Church and the man of sin), same context, however the term is "taken out of the way" which is parallel to "the apostasy".

Maybe you need to re-read this.....? I am saying the term is in no way referring to apostasy as we now know it. Simply "THE DEPARTING", meeting the Lord in the air.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is related,, "The harvest is great but tbe workers are few." How does it slide with someone who believes not by works. The trouble I have is to see someone defend the staatment: not by works at any cost, at the cost of walking in Love. That alone is warning that its wrong.

The problem I have...Liars and deceivers that devalue the finished work of Christ on our behalf by interjecting themselves and their own works/effort into the equation......they will make the plenteous in number group at the end that fully expect to enter based upon their claim of faith (LORD LORD) MIXED with the MANY wonderful works they have done in the NAME of JESUS <----MOST so called Christian religions.....

 

[dcontroversal]

What do you call a figment of your imagination?
- A Lutheran evangelist.

TRUE STORY. Four churches in my city do ALL the soul-winning, rest of the churches are orthodox or lutheran and they are dedchurches and I will never get how they havent gone out of business yet since I've never seen them evangelizing.

Not to trash the Lutherans on here btw. LOVE YOU GUYS. But genuinely asking here: Has anyone ever met a Lutheran evangelist/street preacher/something?

NOT a trick question. I've worked with folks from many churches and almost every church I know has some sort of a program for reaching people with the Gospel and i've seen baptists methodists non-denoms pentecostals and even heretical groups like mormons and JWs in the streets. But NEVER have i EVER seen a Lutheran evangelist and I live in a country thats on PAPER (i said ON PAPER) 70% Lutheran.

Do the Missouri Synod folks in USA evangelize one bit or are they closed in over there as well? How are their numbers, up or down?

Yo H. why did you type this to Not by Works thread this got nothing to do with the topic? Cause its the most POPPIN' thread on here and I dont wanna start a new one for one simple question. IM SURE dcon will let it slide!

The only Lutherans I know peddle a watered down Catholic dogma with their own cafe blend twist.........and being from Missouri....they Missouri Synod is big here......I see there buildings scattered here and there......

 

[dcontroversal]

big bro is not saying he doesnt believe in evangelism. but no works for salvation. after salvation yes works like eph 2:8-10 i said earlier.

cost of walking in love? all works salvationists love to talk about love God is love. love love. but wrong gospel love doesnt help.
mormons are nice and loving and unsaved.

AMEN brother........100% spot on......and the road to hell is paved with "works", sincerity, religion and ignorance of the truth.....

 

[cv5]

The problem I have...Liars and deceivers that devalue the finished work of Christ on our behalf by interjecting themselves and their own works/effort into the equation......they will make the plenteous in number group at the end that fully expect to enter based upon their claim of faith (LORD LORD) MIXED with the MANY wonderful works they have done in the NAME of JESUS <----MOST so called Christian religions.....

They are easy to spot.....they glorify themselves.