Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Not even close to enough!! :D

My goodness we have low, low standards these days what has happened to the modern day Christian.

You need to carry your cross daily that is the way to salvation.
@Lightskin you do know this is facetious right? I was quoting what was said to me once about carrying my cross to be saved.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
@Lightskin you do know this is facetious right? I was quoting what was said to me once about carrying my cross to be saved.
I know that, my Lady. Your love for God and your unmitigated trust in Him, knowing we are saved by grace through faith is music to my soul. I thank God you and other faithful are on CC. 🙏
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I know that, my Lady. Your love for God and your unmitigated trust in Him, knowing we are saved by grace through faith is music to my soul. I thank God you and other faithful are on CC. 🙏
Sadly, most people are operating under the law still and do not really know it.

I was one of them.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I know that, my Lady. Your love for God and your unmitigated trust in Him, knowing we are saved by grace through faith is music to my soul. I thank God you and other faithful are on CC. 🙏
Agree, there is only a very small number that keep me checking in from time to time... and you are one of them.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
They are believers.
Tasted the heavenly gift is figurative language for being born again.

NO IT IS NOT! People get close to the Lord and even feel the Splash Effect of being close to the Holy Spirit, without ever Receiving the LORD as their Master.

that the warning is against mere profession of faith short of salvation, or tasting but not really partaking of salvation (The New Scofield Reference Bible, p. 1315)
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.
Dr. William MacDonald and Dr. Arthur L. Farstad

6:4 We come now to the heart of the warning against apostasy. . .

Who are these people? The answer is given in verses 4 and 5. In examining the great privileges which they enjoyed, it should be noticed that all these things could be true of the unsaved. It is never clearly stated that they had been born again. Neither is any mention made of such essentials as saving faith, redemption by His blood, or eternal life.
. . .
They tasted the heavenly gift. The Lord Jesus is the heavenly Gift. They had tasted of Him but had never received Him by a definite act of faith. It is possible to taste without eating or drinking. When men offered wine mixed with gall to Jesus on the cross, He tasted it but He would not drink it (Matt. 27:34). It is not enough to taste Christ; unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, that is, unless we truly receive Him as Lord and Savior, we have no life in us (John 6:53).


They had become partakers of the Holy Spirit. . . . He leads men to repentance and points them to Christ as their only hope. Men may thus partake of the Holy Spirit's benefits without being indwelt by Him.

6:5 They had tasted the good word of God. As they heard the gospel preached, they were strangely moved and drawn to it. They were like the seed that fell on rocky ground; they heard the word and immediately received it with joy, but they had no root in themselves. They endured for a while, but when tribulation or persecution arose on account of the word, they promptly fell away (Matt. 13:20, 21).

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
They Had Tasted of the Heavenly Gift

This group not only had seen the heavenly light but had tasted of the heavenly gift. The heavenly gift could be one of several things. The Holy Spirit is spoken of in Scripture as a heavenly gift, but, since He is mentioned in the next verse, I do not think He is the gift meant here. The greatest heavenly gift, of course, is Christ Himself (God's "indescribable gift," 2 Cor. 9:15) and the salvation He brought (Eph. 2:8). Christ's salvation is the supreme heavenly gift, and no doubt the one referred to here.


This great gift, however, was not received. It was not feasted on, but only tasted, sampled. It was not accepted or lived, only examined. That stands in contrast with Jesus' work on our behalf. Having tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9), He went on to drink it all.


Jesus told the woman at Jacob's well, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water" (John 4:10). Jesus was speaking of the gift of salvation, the "living water" that leads to "eternal life" (v. 14). Those who drank it—not sipped it or just tasted it, but drank it—would be saved. A short time later in Galilee, Jesus told His hearers, "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever" (John 6:51; cf. v. 35). Eternal life comes from eating, not simply tasting, God's gift of salvation in Christ.


One of the presalvation ministries of the Holy Spirit is that of giving the unsaved a taste of the blessings of salvation. This is part of His ministry of drawing men to Christ. But tasting is not eating. The Holy Spirit will give us a taste, but He will not make us eat. God placed the blessing of salvation to the lips of these New Testament Jews, but they had not yet eaten. The tasting came from what they saw and heard, as many today have seen the transforming power of Christ and heard the gospel.

They Had Partaken of the Holy Spirit

Partakers (Greek, metochos) has to do with association, not possession. These Jews had never possessed the Holy Spirit, they simply were around when He was around. This word is used of fellow fishermen in Luke 5:7, and of Christ in relation to the angels in Hebrews 1:9. It has to do with sharing in common associations and events. In the context of Hebrews 6:4, it refers to anyone who has been where the Holy Spirit has been ministering. It is possible to have an association with the Holy Spirit, to share in what He does, and not be saved. As we have seen (2:4) these Jews had heard the word and had seen and even participated in numerous signs, wonders, miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit. They were actually involved in some of His work.


The Bible never speaks of Christians being associated with the Holy Spirit. It speaks of the Holy Spirit being within them.


Here, however, are some persons who are simply associated with the Holy Spirit. Like perhaps most of the multitudes whom Jesus miraculously healed and fed, they partook of the Holy Spirit's power and blessings, but they did not have His indwelling. They did not possess the Holy Spirit, nor did the Holy Spirit possess them.

They Had Tasted the Word of God

Again these readers are spoken of as having tasted something of God, this time His word. The Greek term used here for word (rhēma, which emphasizes the parts rather than the whole) is not the usual one (logos) for God's Word, but it fits the meaning in this context. As with His heavenly gifts, they had heard God's utterances and sampled them, tasted them, without actually eating them. They had been taught about God. No doubt they regularly came to the assembly of the church. They may have listened carefully and even thought carefully about what they heard. They took it all in, possibly with enthusiasm and appreciation. But they could not say with Jeremiah, "Thy words were found and I ate them, and Thy words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart" (Jer. 15:16). They tasted but they did not eat, just like the nation to whom Jeremiah spoke.


MacArthur New Testament Commentary, The - MacArthur New Testament Commentary – Hebrews.

THEY NEVER RECEIVED HIM AS LORD OF THEIR LIVES, they wanted to remain lord of their own lives.


John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
12 But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
[That is referring to those who are Born Again.]


RECEIVE HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess [if it has not already happen in your heart, it is only a PROFESSION, not a CONFESSION,] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
NO IT IS NOT! People get close to the Lord and even feel the Splash Effect of being close to the Holy Spirit, without ever Receiving the LORD as their Master.








THEY NEVER RECEIVED HIM AS LORD OF THEIR LIVES, they wanted to remain lord of their own lives.


John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
12 But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
[That is referring to those who are Born Again.]


RECEIVE HIM AS WHAT ? ? ?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess [if it has not already happen in your heart, it is only a PROFESSION, not a CONFESSION,] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

We have been here before and I doubt we will resolve the whole Lordship Salvation issue, however that passage in Hebrews is very definitely referencing believers otherwise the entire meaning and focus of the passage would not make any sense.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
A lot of people Get confused, thinking that TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and BECAME COMPANIONS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, is talking about TRUE CHRISTIANS. IT IS NOT, it is only talking about those who have come close to becoming a REAL CHRISTIAN, but failed TO RECEIVE HIM AS THEIR PERMANENT LORD, meaning MASTER. I like the HCSB, because they chose to use the word "companions", which clarifies that it is not US, because we who have been INDWELT by the Holy Spirit. They are something LESS than a REAL CHRISTIAN.


Hebrews 6:4-6 (HCSB)
4 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, [WE HAVE CONSUMED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND HAVE BEEN INDWELT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT SOMETHING LESS.]
5 tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age,
6 and who have fallen away, because, to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt.
They tasted the gift by being around believers who are blessed by God. Thus by association they have tasted Gods love.

Thats why alot of people love to go to church, but never get involved, Because they love the feeling they get and the blessings, but they also love their sin, so they are closet sinners. Who never make the leap of true faith.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They are believers.
Tasted the heavenly gift is figurative language for being born again.
No, they are not believers..

Jesus said we are not to just taste, but gnaw and chew on the truth,, it is far more than just tasting.. It is tasting, savoring, swallowing and then having this power of this food which jesus said whoever eats will NEVER DIE, nurture your life forever.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
58
No, they are not believers..

Jesus said we are not to just taste, but gnaw and chew on the truth,, it is far more than just tasting.. It is tasting, savoring, swallowing and then having this power of this food which jesus said whoever eats will NEVER DIE, nurture your life forever.
Some may argue that these Hebrews tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the character and quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." *Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Some may argue that these Hebrews tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the character and quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." *Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Nice point, We drink to one spirit..

You taste things to see if you like them or not.. You may not like it, and try somethign else. Or go back to what you really liked in the first place.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
2 Pet 2:20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from theholy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

Heb 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame

Heb 10:26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,758
4,120
113
63
Some may argue that these Hebrews tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the character and quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." *Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
This has actually explained it fine to me , I have understanding now , thank you Dan , tasting and drinking , makes ALL the diff , they definitely not saved , because if they were , than Salvation could be lost , and that is why I believe so many think our eternal security can be lost because they have no understanding of that Scripture...xox...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
This has actually explained it fine to me , I have understanding now , thank you Dan , tasting and drinking , makes ALL the diff , they definitely not saved , because if they were , than Salvation could be lost , and that is why I believe so many think our eternal security can be lost because they have no understanding of that Scripture...xox...
In hebrews

I see it that they tasted this new movement, but did not like it and went back to what they really liked.

Since they left and went back, there is no way they will try the new way again, Thats why they will never be renewed.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
No, they are not believers..

Jesus said we are not to just taste, but gnaw and chew on the truth,, it is far more than just tasting.. It is tasting, savoring, swallowing and then having this power of this food which jesus said whoever eats will NEVER DIE, nurture your life forever.
Indeed they were ... indeed they were.

And yes they were .... shall I demonstrate it to you?:)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Some may argue that these Hebrews tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the character and quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." *Do we taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13).
They were saved. just sayin....;)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Indeed they were ... indeed they were.

And yes they were .... shall I demonstrate it to you?:)
You can try.

But as demonstrated in the last few posts. And with the rest of scripture.. They could not be true christians..If they were. God really screwed up.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
You can try.

But as demonstrated in the last few posts. And with the rest of scripture.. They could not be true christians..If they were. God really screwed up.
God does not ever screw up as you well know Mr. EG :)

Okay, I need to go back and read your post and Mr. MMD and maybe even Mr. VCO :D
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God does not ever screw up as you well know Mr. EG :)

Okay, I need to go back and read your post and Mr. MMD and maybe even Mr. VCO :D
Amen, He does not ever screw up.

Think about that concerning giving someone eternal life..and adopting them as his child