Hades / The Grave

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Webers.Home

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#81
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The passage below is often used as a proof text that all of Jesus' teachings
were done in parable form.

Matt 13:34 . . Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did
not say anything to them without using a parable.

However, that passage is only saying that whenever Christ spoke to crowds,
he included at least one parable. To assume he taught only in parable form
is a really, really big error.

FYI: Not all of Christ's stories are clearly identified as parables. Watch out
for that.
_
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#82
.
The passage below is often used as a proof text that all of Jesus' teachings
were done in parable form.


Matt 13:34 . . Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did
not say anything to them without using a parable.


However, that passage is only saying that whenever Christ spoke to crowds,
he included at least one parable. To assume he taught only in parable form
is a really, really big error.


FYI: Not all of Christ's stories are clearly identified as parables. Watch out
for that.
_
I agree and many people attempt to use this scripture as proof that we can't know what God's word is saying. However, the scripture does not support this.

"Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

So, the people that Jesus is speaking parables to, was that generation of Israel. But notice that the Lord says to the disciples that "The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them," which would include all believers. Jesus then says that His purpose for speaking to that generation of Israel is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah:

"‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ "

So, the parables were for that generation of Israel. However, for the disciples and all believers, the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven is available to us.
 

Webers.Home

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#83
.
Modern evangelists like Billy Graham and Luis Palau generally compose their
own sermons and pick their own topics. Jesus did neither; he was
micromanaged by a higher power.

John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit

John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things
which I have heard of Him.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

Heb 1:2 . . In these last days, God has spoken to us by His son.

So then, all the parables-- those clearly identified as such, and those
assumed as such --originated with God; who has thousands upon many
thousands of years under His belt observing His creation. I seriously doubt
that God has to resort to spinning yarns in order to get His points across
seeing as how He has at His disposal an immense archive of eye-witness
experiences to draw upon and put to use.

There's yet another issue to consider-- God cannot lie. (Titus 1:2)

I strongly urge those insisting that Luke 16:9-31 is a yarn to use what time
they have remaining in this life to begin preparing themselves for the worst
when they pass on because it's fatal to disbelieve God's eye-witness reports.

John 3:31-36 . .He who comes from heaven is above all; and what he has
seen and heard, that he testifies. For he whom God has sent speaks the
words of God. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who
does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on
him.
_
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#84
So, the people that Jesus is speaking parables to, was that generation of Israel. But notice that the Lord says to the disciples that "The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them," which would include all believers. Jesus then says that His purpose for speaking to that generation of Israel is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah:

"‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ "

So, the parables were for that generation of Israel. However, for the disciples and all believers, the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven is available to us.
Sounds like literalism looking to the things seen. Close ones eyes to parables.

You would have to define the "generation of Israel" . The word Israel means he who wrestles with man (flesh and blood) the temporal and with God unseen eternal, and overcomes by the power of God.

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Isolating the parables by which Christ spoke not, without hiding the unseen spiritual understanding. Only show those who do make the signified langue or tongue of God without effect. He sets the language not only inspiring it but giving us the signified understanding. He is the interpreter.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

We walk (understand) by a exclusive faith according to the understanding of parables. he give us a prescription (20/20 vision )as to how we can rightly divide parable, one of the manners of prophecy.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 

Webers.Home

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#85
.
Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.

The Divine Comedy, Dante Alighieri, Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as
opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil
pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will
never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to
his netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a
situation will improve or change. Down in the Inferno section of Dante's
concept, despair is a way of life.

One of the hardest concepts to get across is the despair that people in hell
must feel in knowing that their situation is a sealed fate with no hope of
relief. Dante's odyssey, though of course fiction, is useful for that purpose;
especially when it's accompanied by illustrations painted by Gustave Doré.

Jesus warned people that they'd be better off facing eternity with their
hands and their feet amputated, and their eyes gouged out, then to end up
in a hell he called geena; a much worse place than haides. So in my
estimation, Dante's descriptions, and Gustave's paintings, though disturbing
enough in themselves, aren't sufficient to impress just how unfortunate the
ultimate hell really is.
_
 

Webers.Home

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#86
.
Many years ago-- when I was a young single guy in his early twenties, living
alone in a cheap rental --as I was listening to a radio preacher talk about
hell, something in my mind took over; and I had the strangest sensation of
falling off the earth into an abyss and nobody cared, nor did anybody miss
me, nor did my disappearance cause any alarm nor make any difference.

The freeways remained busy with frustrated drivers and honking horns,
people still got up to go to work, shoppers crowded the supermarkets and
department stores, kids caught their buses to school, birds kept right on
chirping, grass kept on growing, ocean waves went on rolling onto the
beach, trains kept running, airlines kept flying, clouds moved across the sky;
and all that.

My absence changed nothing nor disturbed anyone nor anything. The world
was utterly indifferent; it kept right on turning, clocks went on ticking; and
nature and man went right on with their business as usual without the
slightest hiccup. At that moment I realized just how alone and how obscure
people must feel when they exhale their final breath and cross over to the
other side.

Back in March of 2015, Andrew Getty, an heir to J. Paul Getty's oil fortune,
died at the age of 47. In life, Andrew had many friends. You know how many
accompanied him on his journey across the river Styx? Nary a one.

You gotta walk that lonesome valley,
You gotta walk it by yourself,
Nobody here can walk it for you,
You gotta walk it by yourself.

(Woody Guthrie)
_
 

Webers.Home

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#87
.
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ,
but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I
won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by
some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000
years ago. (There's new findings suggesting that human existence goes as
far back as 150-300,000 years) Anyway; whether that extends clear on back
to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and
others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years let alone
300,000. I've been on the Earth for just 75, and I've noticed that my
childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy
than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000
years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would
be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly akin to the futility of a gnat
attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence.
People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Martha
Stewart expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of
duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual
residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the
discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no
hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce. The mental
atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless
existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're
all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring
tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls
at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens,
pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with
grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no
blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and
want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard
feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation,
and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason
to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's
hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable,
altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? I was once discussing the
netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked: "Hell won't be so bad; I'll
have plenty of friends down there". Yes, he probably will have lots of friends
in hell; but I really don't think he should count on them being friendly.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and
sobbing, and the moaning, shrieking, yelping, howling, gnashing teeth, and
the constant complaining. I can only imagine how annoying it must be in hell
with its thousands and millions of people making all that kind of racket.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available.
Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no
way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a
walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree,
take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp,
see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a
Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves
gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl,
no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more
lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more
golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no
Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace,
no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No
snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no
seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy
fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies;
absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the
satisfactions of just being alive.
_
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#88
I agree and many people attempt to use this scripture as proof that we can't know what God's word is saying. However, the scripture does not support this.

"Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

So, the people that Jesus is speaking parables to, was that generation of Israel. But notice that the Lord says to the disciples that "The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them," which would include all believers. Jesus then says that His purpose for speaking to that generation of Israel is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah:

"‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ "

So, the parables were for that generation of Israel. However, for the disciples and all believers, the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven is available to us.
He spoke to the multitude, everyone that could hear. .Jew and gentile, believers as well as those who believe not,. It has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation but rather the signified language of God .It has do with hiding the spiritual unseen understanding also called hidden manna so that men might learn how to walk by faith the unseen spirit. Parables that are historallly accurate but again hide the other level of understanding called the signified langue or poetic metaphoric .

Not only inspired but interpreted as signified . Using the things seen the temporal to the reveal the unseen eternal faith principle. Using the prescription found in 2 Corinthians 4:18 needed to rightly divide the parables. faith to faith or the unseen understanding to the same...called the gospel in Roman 1.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

There is no prescription for comparing the literal as that seen to the same. That would equal walking by sight like the literalizers not looking for the unseen understanding hid from natural man (no faith)

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The whole period of Kings in Israel was used as a parable for the time present .That time period is just filled with the signified language of God . Many historically true parables that give another level of understanding when comparing the unseen spirit to the same faith to faith . The Exodus again filled with the signified language of God. Or Abraham ready to sacrifice Isaac the gospel hid. on and on.

Makes me wonder when he does come on the last day as spoken of in Luke, will he find faith a or a religion that walks literally by sight after the thier experience of their deceitful hearts as in the days of Noah ?
 

Deade

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#89
3705. horama ► Strong's Concordance

horama: that which is seen

Original Word: ὅραμα, ατος, τό

Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter

Transliteration: horama

Phonetic Spelling: (hor'-am-ah)

Definition: that which is seen

Usage: a spectacle, vision, that which is seen.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3705 hórama (a neuter noun derived from 3708
horáō, "to see, spiritual and mentally") – a vision (spiritual seeing),
focusing on the impact it has on the one beholding the vision (spiritual seeing). See 3708 (horaō).
So, you are saying Moses and Elijah are in heaven and look like they did on the mount?

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Acts 2:29, 34
"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand," :unsure:
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#90
No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no
Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace,
no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No
snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no
seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy
fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies;
absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the
satisfactions of just being alive.

That would describe our living hell, the belly of the whale, or three days and nights in the heart of the earth . The living suffering as the wrath of God revealing poured on a dead creation. . . dying .Approx. 70 years

Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV)Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Hell is reckoned by reason of living suffering as in a living sacrifice.. (no dead sacrifice)

Christian are delivered, having rest with the father when we cry out and he strengthens us. .Non believers like Cain remining restless wanderer throughout his whole life .. .no relief or sabbath rest . Cain said the punishment was more than he could bear. The punish Christ did bear by reason of his suffering. As it works in us to both will and perform the pleasure of God we can finish the work he has begun in us. .

When a corrupted body and soul die. . not being born again. . . therefore not given a new spirit that will never die . The lifeless, spiritless flesh and blood return as rudiments of this world (clay) return and the temporal corrupted spirit returns back to the father of Spirit who gave it subject to the letter of the law which kills They will not rise to new spirit life on the last day and a new incorruptible body for ever and ever.

The law that kills "death" (thou will surely die) it will be cast in the lake of fire never to rise and condemn another creation.

Psalm 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the
spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#91
What are you going on about, the transfiguration was simply a vision. Like a dream, it is not real. Matt. 17:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." View attachment 203147
Yes the same point he made in the parable in Luke 16 with the Rich dead man who was assumed he could commune by the literalist , who was buried and Lazarus alive and not buried which is the same point in Mathew 17 as at the end of a series of 5 parables the accumulated reasoning ending with the last parable . He did not sneak in a literal interpretation after four leading to a conclusion . That simply would not make biblical interpretation sense I believe.

It was more a warning to the unbelieving Jew who practiced necromancy seeking after the dead as familiar spirits that the Catholics have re named as patron saints.

Jesus was saying there is one manner by which by which we commune with the unseen Father. "listen to my Son hear him".

This manner pray: "Our father in heaven" not seen.And not men on earth seen as workers with familiar spirits . The father from heaven in Mathew replied hear my Son. . . he has the very words of the father. Again representing the law and the prophets (Moses and Elisa) sola scriptura.

Moses and Elisa the two witnesses are simply the law and the prophets. The reason at the end of a series of parables was. That if they would not hear the word of God ( law and the prophets, Moses and Elisa) then neither would they believe Jesus rose from the dead .

Simply protecting the integrity of the gospel . Same two witness that are killed and put to death making sola scriptura without effect. two witnesses , spoken of in Revelations.

Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matrhew 17: 4-5

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.Luke16: 31

Compare the spiritual understanding from one parable to the other. Or in this cases a series of parables to one parable... all ending with the same reasoning.. If they refuse to believe the gospel neither will they be persuaded that Christ rose form the dead. Hear my Son according to the word the father requires from him to say . . . not men seen potential antichrists .

Talking to the dead as if it was possible is forbidden (necromancy ) Necromancy, the Hebrew word Darash, our English word "seek" .

It is used two ways.(1) to seek after our Father seek-able .Or (2) seek after spirits of lying demons named legion many or all of the false gods. the kind which Saul in the old testament resorted to or the idol images(teraphims) used by Rachel stolen from her father as familiar spirit idols Putting a face of the one a person one believes the are communing with . Again he always come up as legion .Like A blank check needed information a signature or a picture ID.

That kind of false illusion works to deceive mankind that they are not just simply toying with their own imagination playing mind games but are actually speaking to the dead. Like I am thirsty if I had a literal tongue. Could you get me a drink my imaginary tongue is on fire.

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?( dead in their trespasses and sin) To the law and to the testimony:( Moses and Elijah represent the word ) if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:19-20
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#92
So, you are saying Moses and Elijah are in heaven and look like they did on the mount?

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Acts 2:29, 34 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand," :unsure:
Good point..

We walk by faith not after the rudiments of this world.

Interesting. Like do you have a photo ID or DNA, birth cetricate or fingerprint on file.? I think the Catholic have a vial of blood under glass on a gold chain. How did they test it?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#93
So, you are saying Moses and Elijah are in heaven and look like they did on the mount?

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Acts 2:29, 34 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand," :unsure:
No... I said nothing about either being in heaven. I clarified that what the apostles saw was a SPIRITUAL VISION.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#94
I wish people would respond to what is actually said instead
of what they imagine was said which was not even hinted at.


Oh, unrealistic expectation on my part? Pssshhh. I can dream, can't I? :giggle:

Hope springs eternal :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#96
Well then, isn't that just like a dream? Just asking. View attachment 203604
No. Dreaming generally happens when one is asleep, though one can also have spiritual visions then, too. However, the disciples were neither sleeping nor dreaming when they saw Moses and Elijah, nor was Paul when he had his vision, nor was John when he had his. Jacob, Job, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Daniel, Zechariah, Joseph... there may be more. They all had such visions, and some of those visions did occur during sleep, but not all. And... some spiritual perception is auditory only.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#97
No. Dreaming generally happens when one is asleep, though one can also have spiritual visions then, too. However, the disciples were neither sleeping nor dreaming when they saw Moses and Elijah, nor was Paul when he had his vision, nor was John when he had his. Jacob, Job, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Daniel, Zechariah, Joseph... there may be more. They all had such visions, and some of those visions did occur during sleep, but not all. And... some spiritual perception is auditory only.

Yes, awake or asleep the same kind dynamics of visions that the Son of man experienced in his fleshly mind in three different occasions Mathew 4 . Shown all the kingdom of the world and all the glory without moving a inch (lying thoughts entering in). With the exception they were false and our Father in heaven put His words in the mind of the Son of man and therefore the mouth of Jesus and established the law as to how we can hear him as it is written and again as it is written.

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Colloisian 2:18

So its not that he was not given a vision "not seeing it" means it was false. The work of the imagination of one own hearts . The new gospel today of sign and wonders. (no faith)
 

Webers.Home

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#98
.
Jonah 1:17 . . Jonah was in the belly of a fish for three days and three
nights

FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

A: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

A: No.

At some point in his nautical adventure Jonah went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he sited at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could
possibly be at the bottoms of the mountains while in the tummy of a fish at
the same time was for the man and his body to part company and go their
separate ways; viz: Jonah's prayer from the tummy of the fish speaks of a
previous prayer of his from the bottoms of the mountains.

Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:

Jonah 2:6 . .To the bottoms of the mountains I went down. As for the earth,
its bars were upon me for time indefinite. But out of the pit you proceeded
to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God.

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for pit in Ps
16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction. In other
words: Jonah 2:6 tells of Jonah's resurrection.

It's widely believed that people cease to exist when they die. Well; were that
belief a fact; then Jonah would've ceased to exist when he died and his
journey to the bottoms of the mountains never happened.

But even more so, Jesus Christ too would've ceased to exist when he died;
and his journey to the heart of the Earth never happened. Not only that; but
Jesus would not have been resurrected back to life, instead, he would've
been created back to life.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#99
Yes, awake or asleep the same kind dynamics of visions that the Son of man experienced in his fleshly mind in three different occasions Mathew 4 . Shown all the kingdom of the world and all the glory without moving a inch (lying thoughts entering in). With the exception they were false and our Father in heaven put His words in the mind of the Son of man and therefore the mouth of Jesus and established the law as to how we can hear him as it is written and again as it is written.
The two visions (not three) were not false; they were deceptive. There is a difference.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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113
The two visions (not three) were not false; they were deceptive. There is a difference.

Three is used throughout the bible to denote the end of the matter. Strike three you're out

(#1) It is written the once source of Christian faith verse 4. (command that these stones be made bread.) He refused to see bread.

the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;....it is written again verse 7. ( #2)

9-11 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, (#3 )Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Strike three back to the bottomless dugout.

No difference, same difference , deceptive thoughts are lies false truth. Like in the garden . Did God really say you will not lie?