Seventh Day Adventists teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel

[kneemailer]

Interesting about the highly regarded Mr. Spurgeon.

I have all of the original citations in their original languages where possible for each person named and many not named in the wikipedia article.

 

[kneemailer]

Tell me then, who is this verse (Malachi 3:1) speaking of:

Even all of the 'ECF" know who the "angel of the great counsel" is in Malachi 3:1. They know who it is, since all 4 Gospels cite Malachi 3:1 and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, as John the Baptist himself did. John's testimony, was it from Heaven or of men, tell me?

 

[Lafftur]

Tell me then, who is this verse (Malachi 3:1) speaking of:

Mal 3:1 הנני שׁלח מלאכי ופנה־דרך לפני ופתאם יבוא אל־היכלו האדון אשׁר־אתם מבקשׁים ומלאך הברית אשׁר־אתם חפצים הנה־בא אמר יהוה צבאות׃

Mal 3:1 הנניH2005 שׁלחH7971 מלאכיH4397 ופנהH6437 דרךH1870 לפניH6440 ופתאםH6597 יבואH935 אלH413 היכלוH1964 האדוןH136 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 מבקשׁיםH1245 ומלאךH4397 הבריתH1285 אשׁרH834 אתםH859 חפציםH2655 הנהH2009 באH935 אמרH559 יהוהH3068 צבאות׃H6635

3:1 hin'niy sholëªch mal'äkhiy ûfiNäh-derekh' l'fänäy ûfit'om yävô el-hëykhälô häädôn ásher-aTem m'vaq'shiym ûmal'akh' haB'riyt ásher-aTem cháfëtziym hiNëh-vä ämar y'hwäh tz'väôt

Mal 3:1 ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου, καὶ ἐξαίφνης ἥξει εἰς τὸν ναὸν ἑαυτοῦ κύριος, ὃν ὑμεῖς ζητεῖτε, καὶ ὁ ἄγγελος τῆς διαθήκης, ὃν ὑμεῖς θέλετε· ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται, λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ.

Mal 3:1 ιδουG2400 INJ εγωG1473 P-NS εξαποστελλωG1821 V-PAI-1S τονG3588 T-ASM αγγελονG32 N-ASM μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ επιβλεψεταιG1914 V-FMI-3S οδονG3598 N-ASF προG4253 PREP προσωπουG4383 N-GSN μουG1473 P-GS καιG2532 CONJ εξαιφνηςG1810 ADV ηξειG1854 V-FAI-3S ειςG1519 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM ναονG3485 N-ASM εαυτουG1438 D-GSM κυριοςG2962 N-NSM ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP ζητειτεG2212 V-PAI-2P καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM αγγελοςG32 N-NSM τηςG3588 T-GSF διαθηκηςG1242 N-GSF ονG3739 R-ASM υμειςG4771 P-NP θελετεG2309 V-PAI-2P ιδουG2400 INJ ερχεταιG2064 V-PMI-3S λεγειG3004 V-PAI-3S κυριοςG2962 N-NSM παντοκρατωρG3841 N-NSM

The spirit of Elijah in John the Baptist.

Malachi 3:1 King James Version (KJV)
3 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.


Malachi 4:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Matthew 3:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

John 1:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 He (John the Baptist) said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Matthew 11:7-15 King James Version (KJV)
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

John the Baptist was NOT an angel. He was human, a prophet in the office of Elijah preparing the way of the Lord - just as Yeshua/Jesus told His disciples.

 

[UnderGrace]

Guess I will have to answer my own question, since no one else seems to want to even address it. So here is a snapshot from wikipedia, which is well sourced I see:

View attachment 203391

Again, I haven't argued anything yet. I am simply citing the source for what it says to be discussed.

“We read that Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, and the dragon was cast down. The fight is going on every day. Michael is the Lord Jesus, the only Archangel.”
http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols13-15/chs842.pdf

You remember how our Lord, who is the true Michael, the only great Archangel, said at the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel, “I beheld Satan as lightning falling from Heaven.”
http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols58-60/chs3382.pdf

I guess not so far outside of Christian Orthodoxy or maybe Christ is not Michael the archangel, and Spurgeon was of orthodox, evangelical faith and knew the difference, that Christ is not actually the same person as Michael.

I am thinking given the type of written expression used by Spurgeon and that he did continually use types and figures, as demonstrated in one of the quotes above.

 

[kneemailer]

John the Baptist was NOT an angel. He was human, a prophet in the office of Elijah preparing the way of the Lord - just as Yeshua/Jesus told His disciples.

That is the first 'mal'ak', or 'aggelos' in Malachi 3:1, not the second. Again, you misunderstand the word itself. Humans can indeed be "angels", as David:

1Sa_29:9 And Achish answered and said to David, I know that thou art good in my sight, as an angel of God: notwithstanding the princes of the Philistines have said, He shall not go up with us to the battle.

Gal_4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

 

[Lafftur]

I could even show you where the Holy Ghost Himself is called "angel", but that is for another thread.

There is no truth in what you are saying.

 

[kneemailer]

I guess not so far outside of Christian Orthodoxy.

No, indeed. Even at the very heart of it, though spurned by many today, of which their own founders would take up argument against them.

 

[Magenta]

Matt - I enjoyed your post and read every word! Amen.

As I read, I thought about how God’s Word and plan is like “conception of a baby.”

A woman is pregnant yet, there is no baby.........yet. However, she has conceived - God has spoken ....it will happen..

Isaiah 55:10-11

 

[kneemailer]

There is no truth in what you are saying.

Go get a concordance. Look up every single time the word mal'ak (Hebrew, Syriac) and 'aggelos' (greek, NT or septuaginta) appears. I have no need to not speak the truth, and have told you the truth (John 8:40).

 

[UnderGrace]

No, indeed. Even at the very heart of it, though spurned by many today, of which their own founders would take up argument against them.

I finished my thought in the post and added to it as I considered how Spurgeon liked to express himself.

I just wonder why you defend this doctrine so strongly?

 

[kneemailer]

I finished my thought in the post and added to it as I considered how Spurgeon liked to express himself.

I just wonder why you defend this doctrine so strongly?

I quoted your original. Should have stayed with it.

Truth is truth. Error is error. Light is never darkness, and darkness is never light (though it sometimes tries; Luke 11:35).

Jesus had a great penchant for upholding truth.

For notice what sanctifies:

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh_17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Therefore, can error ever sanctify or even lead to sanctification? True Doctrines are more than simply theological ideas.

 

[Lafftur]

That is the first 'mal'ak', or 'aggelos' in Malachi 3:1, not the second. Again, you misunderstand the word itself. Humans can indeed be "angels", as David:

1Sa_29:9 And Achish answered and said to David, I know that thou art good in my sight, as an angel of God: notwithstanding the princes of the Philistines have said, He shall not go up with us to the battle.

Gal_4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

In these scriptures angel is meant as "messenger" that carries God's Word, NOT a celestial being.

 

[kneemailer]

In these scriptures angel is meant as "messenger" that carries God's Word, NOT a celestial being.

The Son of the Father (Mal. 3:1; Isa. 63:9, etc) isn't a "celestial being"? Tsk, tsk. The word "mal'ak" and "aggelos" only mean messenger or ambassador, that which comes with a message, and never carries any inherent meaning of created.

 

[Lafftur]

The Son of the Father (Mal. 3:1; Isa. 63:9, etc) isn't a "celestial being"? Tsk, tsk. The word "mal'ak" and "aggelos" only mean messenger or ambassador, that which comes with a message, and never carries any inherent meaning of created.

Tsk, tsk......lol!

Celestial beings are CREATED beings. God is the CREATOR. Yeshua/Jesus is God in the flesh, NOT a celestial being. He is God.

 

[Lafftur]

Go get a concordance. Look up every single time the word mal'ak (Hebrew, Syriac) and 'aggelos' (greek, NT or septuaginta) appears. I have no need to not speak the truth, and have told you the truth (John 8:40).

No concordance is needed if you are saying that angels are God by saying they are not created beings. This is just absolutely NOT TRUE.

Angels are created by God, just as humans are created by God. Both angels and humans can be "messengers" of God's Word.

 

[kneemailer]

No concordance is needed

Thank you for your time.

 

[kneemailer]

Of all of the Father's "messengers", who is the highest?

 

[kneemailer]

I guess not so far outside of Christian Orthodoxy

Doesn't look like it according to the evidence I have seen and have documented:

Melito of Sardis (wrote AD 165 – AD 175, died c. AD 180 – Jesus is “among the angels, archangel”

Charles Buck (AD 1771 – AD 11 Aug 1815) Jesus is called “Angel” and “Archangel”.

John Butterworth, minister (born AD 1727- died AD 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Taylor (AD 15 May 1758 – AD 1 November 1835) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Patrick Fairbairn (AD 28 January 1805 – AD 6 August 1874) – Jesus is “Michael”.

William Baxter Godbey (AD June 3, 1833 - AD September 12, 1920) cites Dr. Clarke that Jesus is “Michael”.

Matthew Pool[e] – (AD 1624 – AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Sir William Smith (AD 20 May 1813 – AD 7 October 1893) – Jesus is “Michael” and cites others Luther, Hengstenberg, etc.

Thomas Coke (AD 9 September 1747 – AD 2 May 1814) – Jesus is “Michael”.

John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) – Jesus is “Michael”, and called “Angel”, etc

Elhanan Winchester (AD 1751 in Brookline, Massachusetts – AD April 18, 1797) – Jesus is “Michael”.

George Sale (AD 1697, Canterbury, Kent, England – AD 1736, London, England) ; George Psalmanazar (AD 1679? - AD 1763),; Archibald Bower (AD 17 January 1686 – AD 3 September 1766) ; George D. Shelvocke (baptised AD 1 April 1675 - AD 30 November 1742) ; John Campbell (AD 1708 - AD 1775); John Swinton (AD 1703 - AD 1777) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Church of England Magazine. Under the superintendence of the clergymen of the United Church of England and Ireland. Vol. IV. No. 85; January 6, 1838. By James Burns. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert Hawker (AD 1753 – AD 1827) – Jesus is “Michael” and “Archangel”.

Samuel Horsley (AD 15 September 1733 – AD 4 October 1806) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The London Encyclopedia, or Universal Dictionary … 1839. – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible; Volume 4; M-P, Revised, Full-Color Edition; - cites that many Protestants, Hengstenberg, etc that Jesus is “Michael”.

Hermann Witsius (Herman Wits or in Latin Hermannus Witsius) (AD 12 February 1636 – AD 22 October 1708) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Reinerus Vogelsangius (AD 1610 - AD 1679) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Johannes Cloppenburg (AD 1592 - AD 1652) - Jesus is Michael the “Angel of the Lord”.

Ralph Griffiths (AD c.1720 – AD September 28, 1803) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Campegius Vitringa Sr., or Kempe Vitringa[1] (born at Leeuwarden, May 16, 1659; died at Franeker, March 31, 1722) – Jesus is “Michael” the “Archangel”.

Martin Luther (AD 10 November 1483 – AD 18 February 1546) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Philipp Melanchthon (AD 16 February 1497 – AD 19 April 1560) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Wigand (ca. AD 1523 - AD 21 October 1587) – Jesus is “Michael”.

David Chytraeus or Chyträus (26 February 1530, Ingelfingen – 25 June 1600, Rostock) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Giovanni Diodati or Deodati (AD 6 June 1576 – AD 3 October 1649) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Andrew Willet (AD 1562 – AD 4 December 1621) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Miller (AD February 15, 1782 – AD December 20, 1849) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl L. Beckwith, - Jesus is “Michael”.

Robert W. Bertram (AD 27 March 1921 - AD 13 March 2003) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Dr. Frances N. Lee (AD 1934 - AD Friday 23rd December, 2011) - - Jesus is “Michael”.

David Harold Chilton (AD 1951 – AD 1997) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Milton Spenser Terry (AD 1840 - AD 1914) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Whitefield - December 27 [O.S. December 16] 1714 – September 30, 1770) speaks by symbol, Jesus is our “Michael”.

James Petigru Boyce (AD 1827 – AD 1888) citing John Pye-Smith, Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

The Rev Dr John Pye-Smith FRS, FGS (AD 25 May 1774 - AD 5 February 1851) - Jesus is “probably” “Michael”.

Christmas Evans (AD 25 December 1766 – AD 19 July 1838) – Jesus is “Michael”.

The Christian Gleaner and Domestic Magazine for 1825, Volume II; London; published by B. J. Holdsworth, 18, St. Paul's Churchyard. – Jesus is “Michael”.

Carl Ferdinand Wilhelm Walther (AD October 25, 1811 – AD May 7, 1887) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) – Jesus is “Michael”.

Charles Spurgeon (AD 9 June 1834 – AD 31 January 1892) Jesus is the “True Michael”.

Matthew Henry (AD 18 October 1662 – AD 22 June 1714) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Adams (AD 1583 – AD 1653) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Heinrich [Henry] Bullinger (AD 18 July 1504 – AD 17 September 1575) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Isaac Watts (AD 17 July 1674 – AD 25 November 1748) - Jesus is “Michael”.

William Kinkade (AD 22nd Sept. 1783 - AD 20th Sept. 1832) [became Arian later; Heresy] - Jesus is “Michael”.

Jonathan Edwards (AD October 5, 1703 – AD March 22, 1758) - Jesus is “Michael”.

1560/1599 Geneva Study Bible- Jesus is “Michael”.

John [Jean] Calvin (born Jehan Cauvin: AD 10 July 1509 – AD 27 May 1564) - Jesus is “Michael” and does not disagree with others who see the same.

Francois Du Jon aka Franciscus Junius (born François du Jon, AD 1 May 1545 – AD 13 October 1602) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Wesley (AD 28 June [O.S. 17 June] 1703 – AD 2 March 1791) - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Brown of Haddington (AD 1722 – AD 19 June 1787) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Wood (AD 1751 – AD 1840) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Ernst Wilhelm Theodor Herrmann Hengstenberg (AD October 20, 1802, Fröndenberg – AD May 28, 1869, Berlin- Jesus is “Michael”.

Wikipedia, The Online Encyclopedia – Michael (Archangel); subsection - “Protestant Views” – cites John A. Lees, and Hengstenberg, Jesus is “Michael”.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, comment on section “Michael” by John A. Lees. - Jesus is “Michael”.

John Bunyan (AD 28 November 1628 – AD 31 August 1688) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Henry Ainsworth (AD 1571 – AD 1622) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Watson (c. AD 1620 – AD 1686) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Glasgow D.D. (AD 27 May 1805 – AD 1890 ) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Hastings (AD 1852 – AD 1922) and George Cunninghame Monteath Douglas (AD 1826 – AD 1904- Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Hobbes Scott (17 April 1783 – 1 January 1860) - Jesus may indeed be “Michael” as “many” others say.

Hezekiah Holland (born ca. AD 1617, living AD 1660) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) - Jesus is “Michael”.

George Balderston Kidd (Cottingham, near Hull, AD 28 July 1794 – AD 1852) - Jesus is “Michael”.

James Durham (AD 1622 – AD 1658) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Bryce Johnston (AD 1747 - AD 1805) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Haweis (AD 1 January 1734 - AD February 11, 1820) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Abingdon Bible Commentary, 1929; Editor, Edwin Lewis (AD 1881 – AD 1959) was an American Methodist theologian primarily associated with Drew University in New Jersey. Others involved - Frederick Carl Eiselen; David G. Downey. - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann [John] Peter Lange (AD 10 April 1802 in Sonneborn (now a part of Wuppertal) – AD 9 July 1884), and Elijah Richard Craven (AD Mar. 28 1824, in Washington D.C. - AD Jan. 5 1908, in Philadelphia, Pa) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Thomas Robinson (AD 1813/14 - AD 1890) - Jesus is “Michael”.

Johann Friedrich Haug ((AD * 1680, AD † 18. May 1753) and The Berlenburger Bibel [aka 'Berleb. Bible', 'Berleburger Bibel', etc.] is in the years AD 1726 - AD 1742) - Jesus is “Michael”.

... and that doesn't include the "Angel of the LORD" statements, which I also have.

 

[bluto]

Of all of the Father's "messengers", who is the highest?

You mean of all yhe Father's messengers who is the only one clearly identified as God Almighty?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto

 

[calibob]

Isaiah 55:10-11

One of my top ten.