Cherubins

[Scribe]

I know! Is that cool or what. I felt the same way when God showed it to me.... awesome!

Not sure. 1) they are angels and not cherubim 2) they are sitting so where do you see them facing each other? 3) the tomb or place where Jesus laid is not technically the mercy seat since we read in Hebrews that he offered it in the heavenly or true holy of holies which I don't see is the rock slap where he laid. They don't have wings, there is a lot lacking to make it some kind of reference to the cherubim over the mercy seat but you could be on to something. I am not seeing it but it might be there.

 

[KJV1611]

Not sure. 1) they are angels and not cherubim 2) they are sitting so where do you see them facing each other? 3) the tomb or place where Jesus laid is not technically the mercy seat since we read in Hebrews that he offered it in the heavenly or true holy of holies which I don't see is the rock slap where he laid. They don't have wings, there is a lot lacking to make it some kind of reference to the cherubim over the mercy seat but you could be on to something. I am not seeing it but it might be there.

Maybe not, I have been wrong before but let's go through your list and see what we come up with.

1) Angel means messenger. Christ is not an angel, but he was The Angel of the Lord. So to me the fact that they were referred to as angels is just a non-descript way of referring to them. It would have been pretty obvious if the bible would have said two cherubim facing each other lol.

2) There is no mention (that I know of) as to whether the cherubim were sitting or not in the old testament mercy seat. Another thing missing too, is the resurrection account never says that the angels were present before Jesus got up. In John it says "where the body of Jesus had lain". Most Old Testament shadows are vague and lack details so that it's hidden, else the wisdom of the world could figure it out.

3) Where do you think the true holy place is? From what your'e saying, it seems like you believe Christ took his blood to heaven and offered it there.

 

[Scribe]

24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

I don't think we know exactly how he did it. I can't say what it looked like.

 

[Ahwatukee]

This is a typing test

 

[blue_ladybug]

This is a typing test

And you passed it.. lol

 

[kneemailer]

How do you reconcile scripture that seperates the difference between angles and cherubs?

What scriptures?

Gabriel is the very covering Cherub that replaced Lucifer, as one who now "stand in the presence of God" (Luke 1:19), and Gabriel is called "angel" (Matthew 1:20,24, 2:13,19, 28:2; Luke 1:11,38, 2:9).

Lucifer himself, called the "anointed cherub that covereth" (Ezekiel 28:14), is also called "angel" (Revelation 9:11; 2 Corinthians 11:4, etc.)

The word "angel" simply means 'messenger' or 'ambassador', 'one sent with a message', and so Lucifer being in said position, as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, etc portray, makes him an 'archangel' as Jude 1:6 also relates (or "prince of devils", being arch leader over fallen angels), having abandoned his arch office., see also Rev. 9:11, the 'angel' of the bottomless pit, ultimately Satan, though not only, and see also 2 Corinthians 11:4 and 1 Corinthians 6:3, for even satan himself shall be judged by the saints. 2 Peter 2:4 refers to Lucifer's own fall.

 

[kneemailer]

This is a typing test

And this is the test, soon coming upon all the world:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 

[kneemailer]

Your thoughts: The cherubs above the mercy seat on the ark of the covenant who are these creatures and why was God so specific that when finished the faces of these creatures should always be toward the mercy seat?
Ref: Ex: chapter 25,26,36 and 37.

1Pe_1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The Mercy and Justice of God meet in Christ Jesus. The Mercy Seat is over the Law of God. The question Lucifer raised, is How can God be both Just and the Justifier of the sinner, or transgressor of His Holy and eternal Law? Satan declared that if God was Merciful He could not be Just, and if God were Just, He could not be at the same time Merciful.

Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:

Lucifer was removed from Heaven for his sin (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28; 2 Peter 2:4), and now asks, how can sinners enter from earth (even seen in the disputing over Moses in Jude)? The answer is found in the Gospel itself, which is Mercy and Justice combined at Calvary.

Psa_85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

The penalty for sin was satisfied, the Law of God upheld forever (Isaiah 42:21), and at the same time Mercy was granted.

Angels of the highest intellect are studying out God's plan of redemption, which had been hid in the mind of God from eternity past, until being worked out in Christ Jesus.

Dan 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth ...

 

[Ahwatukee]

And this is the test, soon coming upon all the world:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The hour of trial = God's time of wrath

The hour of trial is just another designation representing the period of God's tribulation

The meaning of the scripture above is not saying that the ten kings will only be kings for one hour, but that they are appointed as kings after only a short period of time. You can't do much in an hour but go to lunch. In support of this, other scriptures show that the ten kings will be ruling with the beast right up to when Christ returns.

 

[kneemailer]

one hour

I didn't say it was a literal hour, did I? There are many other scriptures on it, including the 7th Seal, but that is for another thread. it is the hour of the power of darkness upon the last and great scale.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

However when it comes to Rom 4:15 the scripture is very clear where there is no law there is no transgression. The law was not given until the Hebrews rebelled against God (or Moses depending on how you choose to see it) in the Sini. God did not agree with their demand for the law, but He granted their demand. God wanted the people to follow Moses as He led Moses. He wanted them to follow by faith not by the law. The scripture tells us that God granted the law in order that " sin might become exceedingly sinful". Paul spent a great deal of time with early Christians explaining that their salvation came through faith and not by works. By works he meant following after the law.

In agreement God's desire is that people come to Him in faith.

Not in agreement that God wanted people to follow Moses. The children of Israel wanted a mediator and Moses was the mediator at that time (Moses was a "type" ... a foreshadow of Christ).

When it comes to the dispensation between the creation of man and his fall we have very little scripture to help us.
I guess this brings the question. Is this a subject worth spending study time on? I have spent study time on the subject and do not regret doing so. However, in the end, your opinion is just as valid as mine.

I do not believe Adam and Eve had children before the fall.

You speculate that the sons of God mentioned in Gen 6 are the children Adam and Eve had before the fall.

However, if Adam and Eve had children prior to the fall, what happened to these children at the time of the fall?

Did God drive them out of Eden as He did Adam and Eve (Gen 3:24)? God would have no reason to drive them out so they could continue to eat of the tree of life.

God also would have no reason to save Noah and his family … He could have just allowed these other children (if your assertion is accurate) to take over where Adam and Eve had failed.

Just some thoughts on your claim concerning Adam and Eve having had children prior to the fall …

 

[PERFECTION]

In agreement God's desire is that people come to Him in faith.

Not in agreement that God wanted people to follow Moses. The children of Israel wanted a mediator and Moses was the mediator at that time (Moses was a "type" ... a foreshadow of Christ).





I do not believe Adam and Eve had children before the fall.

You speculate that the sons of God mentioned in Gen 6 are the children Adam and Eve had before the fall.

However, if Adam and Eve had children prior to the fall, what happened to these children at the time of the fall?

Did God drive them out of Eden as He did Adam and Eve (Gen 3:24)? God would have no reason to drive them out so they could continue to eat of the tree of life.

God also would have no reason to save Noah and his family … He could have just allowed these other children (if your assertion is accurate) to take over where Adam and Eve had failed.

Just some thoughts on your claim concerning Adam and Eve having had children prior to the fall …

No matter what our thoughts concerning children of Adam and Eve before the fall we must agree that God had already laid the line of progression for our salvation. If and only IF,Adam and Eve had children before the fall they would (in my opinion ) played no roll in this salvation plan God had laid down.

Lets me lay some ground work for my point of view.
No 1 Adam and Eve where flesh and blood. The DNA of their blood at the time of their creation would be interesting to talk about, but lets leave that for another time.
No 2 God put Adam and Eve on earth to populate the earth.
No 3 I believe their method of procreation then is the same as it is today. In the first account of creation ,after God had created man and women, He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply . Then comes the second account of man an women creation and from this account comes the question. How much time passed between Gen 2:35 and Gen 3:1? We do know that God commanded them to multiply
before the fall. Question is did they? If they did have children did God reckon their sin back to these children ? It is my opinion Adam and Eve did obey God and produced offspring before the fall. I also believe Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God. By this I meant they could ascend to His throne or He could descend to them. After the fall however this avenue closed to Adam and Eve , but, what about their children (that is of course you indeed believe they had children ) . If there are children and if these children did not fall as result of their parents sin and, because the whole earth is under bondage because of their sin their parents sin, these children would no longer have a place on this earth. Being still perfect and without sin they could not cohabitant on this corrupt earth with those of us who where under corruption.
I fell if we where allowed to see what Adam and Eve looked like, before their fall , we would not be able to take it in.
I believe We lost far more than what we realize.
One thing we can know , if there are these children , they are stationed above the angles.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It is my opinion Adam and Eve did obey God and produced offspring before the fall. I also believe Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God. By this I meant they could ascend to His throne or He could descend to them. After the fall however this avenue closed to Adam and Eve , but, what about their children (that is of course you indeed believe they had children ) . If there are children and if these children did not fall as result of their parents sin and, because the whole earth is under bondage because of their sin their parents sin, these children would no longer have a place on this earth. Being still perfect and without sin they could not cohabitant on this corrupt earth with those of us who where under corruption.

I know you believe this. I do not believe it.

I fell if we where allowed to see what Adam and Eve looked like, before their fall , we would not be able to take it in.

In agreement.

I believe We lost far more than what we realize.

In agreement.

One thing we can know , if there are these children , they are stationed above the angles.

I believe it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who has this honor:

Hebrews 1:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.