Eternal torment VS Annihilation
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Moses the law giver...in that parable was kept from the temporal promised land which represents the unseen new order the eternal new heavens and earth the heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ. . Picture the law of God typified by Moses The law as to the letter that kills will not enter the new order not one Jot or tittle .
Moses has no body to resurrect.. as corrupted flesh . he is waiting for the new one.
We do not wrestles against flesh and blood and neither can it support the idea that the corrupted spirit remains in the corrupted body . Its death as to the letter of the that is thrown into the lake of fire not corrupted bodies without spirits. It will not rise to condemn the new creation..
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
No sweat or eating bread without the spirit essence of life (breath)
Psalm 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Moses has no body to resurrect.. as corrupted flesh . he is waiting for the new one.
We do not wrestles against flesh and blood and neither can it support the idea that the corrupted spirit remains in the corrupted body . Its death as to the letter of the that is thrown into the lake of fire not corrupted bodies without spirits. It will not rise to condemn the new creation..
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
No sweat or eating bread without the spirit essence of life (breath)
Psalm 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is made of all the kingdoms as denominations/sects of this world . They will become his kingdoms a one new in the new heavens and earth..
Revelation 11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
There must be heresies (sects) among us . We walk by faith the unseen eternal and not to what the eyes see the temporal.
The term non denominational is a denomination/sect.
Division (heresy) within division (heresy.) Even if two or three gather together under the authority of all things written in the law and prophets... he is there working.
1 Corinthians 11:18-20 King James Version (KJV) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
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I used to be an annihilationist but am not now.
Why?
I can see the type between the Garden of Eden, the Israelite Camp, Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem
In each case, individuals are banished from each of these "holy zones", which are characterized by God's presence, but they still continue to exist. For example, Adam and Eve were banished from God's presence, those placed outside the Israelite camp and the city environment of Jerusalem were deemed to be dead, and those placed outside the New Jerusalem are dead in this sense.
Not only that, but the words "death", "destruction" and "perish" can be used in a metaphorical sense, because those who don't know God are considered to be spiritually dead, even though they still walk around and breath. See Ephesians 2:1-4 for an example of this.
Being outside of God's blessing-presence is, in essence, death, and being joined with Jesus and living in union with him is life. So, no one, whether physically living or not, is alive in a spiritual sense outside of Christ.
Those who believe in annihilationism tend to have a low regard for God's holiness and the seriousness of man's sin. In their minds, they think that rebels don't deserve to suffer eternal punishment. Additionally, they tend to think that a good God wouldn't do such a thing, because they are superimposing their own self upon God.
God is full of wrath concerning violations of his holiness.
I am guessing most annihilationists don't think Satan and the evil angels will escape eternal punishment, but for some reason, they don't see man suffering the same fate. If God will punish the angelic rebels by continual torment, what would cause him to fail to do this to humans?
By the way, one of my friends mentioned that he had no issue with eternal punishment because the individuals who suffer it are, in essence, demons in behavior. I find this to be compelling personally.
I believe dispensationalism is largely to blame for annihilationist teachings. Dispensationalism promotes a hermeneutic which cannot reason beyond the wooden literalism that most annihilationists are applying concerning death, destruction, and perishing. After I abandoned dispensationalist thinking, I was able to see the parallels that I mentioned above. So, in some ways I blame dispensationalists for much of the simplistic thinking that leads to annihilationism. Seeing shadows and types has changed my worldview significantly.
Why?
I can see the type between the Garden of Eden, the Israelite Camp, Jerusalem, and the New Jerusalem
In each case, individuals are banished from each of these "holy zones", which are characterized by God's presence, but they still continue to exist. For example, Adam and Eve were banished from God's presence, those placed outside the Israelite camp and the city environment of Jerusalem were deemed to be dead, and those placed outside the New Jerusalem are dead in this sense.
Not only that, but the words "death", "destruction" and "perish" can be used in a metaphorical sense, because those who don't know God are considered to be spiritually dead, even though they still walk around and breath. See Ephesians 2:1-4 for an example of this.
Being outside of God's blessing-presence is, in essence, death, and being joined with Jesus and living in union with him is life. So, no one, whether physically living or not, is alive in a spiritual sense outside of Christ.
Those who believe in annihilationism tend to have a low regard for God's holiness and the seriousness of man's sin. In their minds, they think that rebels don't deserve to suffer eternal punishment. Additionally, they tend to think that a good God wouldn't do such a thing, because they are superimposing their own self upon God.
God is full of wrath concerning violations of his holiness.
I am guessing most annihilationists don't think Satan and the evil angels will escape eternal punishment, but for some reason, they don't see man suffering the same fate. If God will punish the angelic rebels by continual torment, what would cause him to fail to do this to humans?
By the way, one of my friends mentioned that he had no issue with eternal punishment because the individuals who suffer it are, in essence, demons in behavior. I find this to be compelling personally.
I believe dispensationalism is largely to blame for annihilationist teachings. Dispensationalism promotes a hermeneutic which cannot reason beyond the wooden literalism that most annihilationists are applying concerning death, destruction, and perishing. After I abandoned dispensationalist thinking, I was able to see the parallels that I mentioned above. So, in some ways I blame dispensationalists for much of the simplistic thinking that leads to annihilationism. Seeing shadows and types has changed my worldview significantly.
By the way, I have noticed that annihilationists tend to be universalists, too. For instance, I was discussing this issue of annihilationism with someone once, and found out that he was a guy that has a ministry where he promotes universalism. So, he was not only an annihilationist..he was an universalist.
This mentality just really seeks to re-form God into us, and define the parameters of his acceptable activities to that which aligns with our own personal sense of fairness. It requires a high level of faith in man's inherent goodness, as well, that we think that rebel-humans don't deserve eternal punishment. Therefore, this view diminishes from God's holiness and betrays a low level of consciousness of the seriousness of man's sin.
This mentality just really seeks to re-form God into us, and define the parameters of his acceptable activities to that which aligns with our own personal sense of fairness. It requires a high level of faith in man's inherent goodness, as well, that we think that rebel-humans don't deserve eternal punishment. Therefore, this view diminishes from God's holiness and betrays a low level of consciousness of the seriousness of man's sin.
Not a good logical argument.
I have employed this argument as an annihilationist. I also ignored the fact that eternal life and eternal punishment are used in the same verse..therefore the duration of the life is the same as the duration of the punishment.
If you listen to some of the cultic videos on youtube, like those of the associated Church of Gods (United, Restored, Living, Philadelphia) and SDAs, who promote annihilationism, you will pick up all kinds of trashy theology.
My argument would be that they have an idol that cannot offend them because their theology caters to their idea of fairness at the human level. They fail to acknowledge the seriousness of rebelling against God, and the depth of their sinfulness. They really don't think that man deserves to suffer forever because they don't think God's holiness, and their sin against him, is really that serious.
I have employed this argument as an annihilationist. I also ignored the fact that eternal life and eternal punishment are used in the same verse..therefore the duration of the life is the same as the duration of the punishment.
If you listen to some of the cultic videos on youtube, like those of the associated Church of Gods (United, Restored, Living, Philadelphia) and SDAs, who promote annihilationism, you will pick up all kinds of trashy theology.
My argument would be that they have an idol that cannot offend them because their theology caters to their idea of fairness at the human level. They fail to acknowledge the seriousness of rebelling against God, and the depth of their sinfulness. They really don't think that man deserves to suffer forever because they don't think God's holiness, and their sin against him, is really that serious.
Correct, but for some reason this guy was defending annihiliationism but in reality was a universalist. It makes sense in one way..engendering doubt in eternal torment through supporting annihilationism is less problematic than supporting universalism. So, if you can change someone's mind about eternal torment, by promoting annihilationism, it is perhaps a smaller leap than supporting universalism. From there, perhaps universalism is a shorter leap.
Well I am just stating in the abstract not according to scripture it can only be one or the other not both, perhaps this gentleman was misinformed. 
No, because I was part of a cultic group at that point in my life. They did not allow members to interact with non-members. Reading other materials was discouraged by the cultic group as well.
I was only 22 back then. I understood the church's teaching well, though. Annihilationists have to come up with "creative interpretations" for many Scriptures that betray their faulty position. But, to be honest, if you only have a surface-level understanding of the Bible, and reason like a dispensationalist, annihilationism would be considered credible. Their biggest issue is the wooden literalism that they apply to words like death, destruction, and perishing. This wooden literalism is a trademark of dispensationalism.
Of course, most dispensationalists are not annihiliationists but that is because they don't reason consistently.
I was only 22 back then. I understood the church's teaching well, though. Annihilationists have to come up with "creative interpretations" for many Scriptures that betray their faulty position. But, to be honest, if you only have a surface-level understanding of the Bible, and reason like a dispensationalist, annihilationism would be considered credible. Their biggest issue is the wooden literalism that they apply to words like death, destruction, and perishing. This wooden literalism is a trademark of dispensationalism.
Of course, most dispensationalists are not annihiliationists but that is because they don't reason consistently.
I’m sorry but you are very arrogant and ignorant. If anything traditionalist use creative interpretations to support eternal torment. There are only two scriptures in the entire bible that even could be used for eternal torment. Revelation 14:11 which keeps getting spammed here out of context doesn’t even mention the lake of fire. In fact in verse 10 it speaks of those who receive the mark are to be tormented in the presence of the lamb and the holy angels. So Jesus and the angels are just watching this forever? Also if all are destined to be tormented forever than what would it matter if they worshiped the best or not? Also in the context it only says the smoke of their torment rises forever, not their actual torment. The Old Testament uses the same language but it doesn’t literally mean smoke goes up forever but symbolism for destruction. Isaiah 34:10 is a perfect example of that. So the majority here are making their arguments from the most symbolic book in the Bible and are taking it at face value wooden literally. I’m sorry but also the lost prior that tries to make destruction mean ruination is a farce. The poster took a bias source that believes in ECT and used a synonym for destruction totally ignoring all context. Matthew 2:13 says Herod sought to destroy Jesus, did he simply want to ruin him? No in other translations he sought to kill him. Matthew 10:28 says not to fear him who can kill the body but not the soul, but to fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. The context is killing. 2 Peter 2:6 and Jude 1:7 both show sodom and Gomorrah as an example of what will happen to the lost. It wasn’t eternal torment. Also even ones to hold literally to revelation 20:10 the beast isn’t a literal beast, also if the second death is eternal conscious torment then when death is no more wouldn’t Ect be undone? I’m just stating all of this to give y’all something to think about. The great scholar John Stott was a conditionalist and the great scholar Preston sprinkle who co authored erasing hell became a conditionalist after all of his research. So please y’all get off your high horses with the idea that this is heretical and fear mongering. It’s more scriptural than eternal conscious torment is by far. Eternal punishment doesn’t mean eternal torment, punishment can be anything including the death penalty. Unquenchable fire only means it can not be put out. Eternal fire many times only means it’s source is eternal not that the fire never ceases after destruction. Also last thing the scripture about their worm shall not die is Isaiah 66:24 and in the context is speaking only of dead bodies.