If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#321
Feb 6, 2014
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#321
I believe lien gentium is a tool to prepare one world religion to support one world government, the antichrist government, Islam is the biggest religion now, so if catholic able to unite 3 big religion, Islam. Catholic and Jews, + possible Christian, it will be strong power to fight against God people

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil prepare to fulfill this verse use lumen gentium
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#322
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#322
Jackson123 said:
I believe lien gentium is a tool to prepare one world religion to support one world government, the antichrist government, Islam is the biggest religion now, so if catholic able to unite 3 big religion, Islam. Catholic and Jews, + possible Christian, it will be strong power to fight against God people

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil prepare to fulfill this verse use lumen gentium
Click to expand...
You mean Islam is the fastest growing
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#323
Mar 11, 2014
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#323
Hazelelponi said:
It's possible, I only truly understand what is straight forward, I don't do subtleties.. lol.

But I was being serious. Muslim faith is different than a simple not understanding of God.. it's a completely different god altogether.

It is perhaps I am unable to adequately explain why to others.. but it's no misunderstanding, it's intentional trying to make you believe an untruth (i.e. that we have the same god, when we do not)
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I hear what you are saying.
Did you want to respond to this post?
Dan_473 said:
I understand that you feel like a broken record. Maybe if I can express the issue this way. I understand that the Jews say that they worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a trinity. Would you agree with that?

If Jews say that the god they worship is not a trinity, are they still worshiping the same God as Christians?

I would say yes, they are just misinformed about God and denying part of his nature.

Would you agree with that?

So, assuming that we've been agreeing so far,
Muslims say that they worship The God who created everything, at least I think they do. Am I correct about that? And they further say that this is the only God that exists. Again am I correct? And would you agree with me so far?

And up to this point, what Muslims are saying about God would agree with what Christians say about God.

Now, I'm pretty sure that Muslims say that God is not a trinity. Does their denial of the trinity mean that they are worshipping a different God than Christians do?

If so, then it appears to me that there is a double standard. Jews can deny the nature of God, and still be said to be worshiping the same God as Christians. But if Muslims deny the nature of God, then it is a different God.

Now, does the above make sense to you?
Click to expand...
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#324
Jul 8, 2019
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#324
Dan_473 said:
I hear what you are saying.
Did you want to respond to this post?
Click to expand...

Thr Triune God isn't a different God than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jews worship this God. Muslims don't.

It's very simple.
 
G

garee

Banned
#325
Mar 28, 2016
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#325
Jackson123 said:
I believe lien gentium is a tool to prepare one world religion to support one world government, the antichrist government, Islam is the biggest religion now, so if catholic able to unite 3 big religion, Islam. Catholic and Jews, + possible Christian, it will be strong power to fight against God people

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil prepare to fulfill this verse use lumen gentium
Click to expand...
I would say he is fulfilling it as the god of this world. God will remove the chaff from the wheat on the last day. Whern all of the kingdoms or denominations of the world will be his.

Catholicism served by a "law of the fathers . . . venerable men, a form of worship as those who lord it over another man's faith or those who follow after the fathers of Islam show they have no faith that comes from hearing all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) it alone is the reforming restoring authority in any generation or nation of people . Again they must follow a "law of the fathers) as oral traditions of men making the word of God as it is written without effect.. In the end of the matter making men seen the author of their faith as many venerable authors . Like Mohamed, Joself Smith or the Pope the Holy Father made up of a legion called Apostolical succession destroying the meaning of Apostle so that men could rather have faith in respect to what the eyes see. Having received their reward (15 minutes of fame). . They have no living hope in a new body which will not Jew nor gentile male nor female.

Take away their own private books of the law of men... . that they call of Devine origin. . they fall . As did Satan after three times the father put his word in Jesus's mouth as it is written.

One book written by one God who is not a man as us..

Hebrews 12:2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#326
Mar 11, 2014
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#326
Jackson123 said:
Yep, I am not agree with catholic doctrine, to me catholic doctrine not inline with the Bible teaching
Click to expand...
I totally hear what you're saying.
For me, one of the issues with a "Bible only" approach is, which Bible?

As far as I can tell from my research, the first time a person wrote down a list of the same books that we have in the New testament was Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria in 367.

If you're interested, you can read more here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#327
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#327
Jackson123 said:
I believe lien gentium is a tool to prepare one world religion to support one world government, the antichrist government, Islam is the biggest religion now, so if catholic able to unite 3 big religion, Islam. Catholic and Jews, + possible Christian, it will be strong power to fight against God people

Rev 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil prepare to fulfill this verse use lumen gentium
Click to expand...
Interesting thing about the one world government, I think.

Daniel talks about a one world government in chapter 2, with Nebuchadnezzar as its head at that time.

Daniel 2: 37. You, O king, are king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory; 38. and wherever the children of men dwell, the animals of the field and the birds of the sky has he given into your hand, and has made you to rule over them all: you are the head of gold.

Was Nebuchadnezzar in 600 BC ruling over people in places like Indonesia, China, South America? To be honest, I would say no.

So a one world government may not be what we imagine it is.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#328
Mar 11, 2014
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#328
Hazelelponi said:
Thr Triune God isn't a different God than the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jews worship this God. Muslims don't.

It's very simple.
Click to expand...
That's correct the triune God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

But Jews deny that God is a trinity. Why is it, then, that when Jews deny part of the basic nature of God, many people still say they worship the same God as Christians? But when Muslims deny part of the basic nature of God, people say it is a different God?
 
G

garee

Banned
#329
Mar 28, 2016
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#329
Dan_473 said:
Interesting thing about the one world government, I think.

Daniel talks about a one world government in chapter 2, with Nebuchadnezzar as its head at that time.

Daniel 2: 37. You, O king, are king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the strength, and the glory; 38. and wherever the children of men dwell, the animals of the field and the birds of the sky has he given into your hand, and has made you to rule over them all: you are the head of gold.

Was Nebuchadnezzar in 600 BC ruling over people in places like Indonesia, China, South America? To be honest, I would say no.

So a one world government may not be what we imagine it is.
Click to expand...
I would think so. One world corrupted government as the god of this world in respect to all the kingdoms as denominations of men.. . . typified as Nebuchadnezzar the father of lies. . The hand writing was on the wall. Just as when I the blood around the door posts using the Pharaoh as a parable in respect the god of this world.
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#330
Jul 8, 2019
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#330
Dan_473 said:
That's correct the triune God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

But Jews deny that God is a trinity. Why is it, then, that when Jews deny part of the basic nature of God, many people still say they worship the same God as Christians? But when Muslims deny part of the basic nature of God, people say it is a different God?
Click to expand...
Denying the Messiah (and the understanding of God's nature as revealed to us through the New Covenant understanding of God) is a misunderstanding of the fullness of the God Jews worship.

It doesn't mean they worship a different God. It means they stand outside the covenant promises of God...

The Muslims don't worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - they don't know this God at all.

If you were to convert a Muslim you have to begin with God, not with Jesus.. because their God is a different God.

saying Muslims worship the same God we do is like saying Hindus worship our God - it's just not true.

All you have to explain with Jews is how the Messiah is the promised Messiah, and how He fulfills Scripture. You don't have to start from scratch because they already believe in the God of the covenant.
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

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#331
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#331
@Dan_473 to go one thought further..

Muslims believe Torah is corrupted and untrue, they believe the Gospel doesn't exist, they don't believe in any of the covenant promises.. how is this the same God? How is their God even related to ours?

If anything with all they deny as true their God has more in common with Satan than ours..

While on the other hand, the only thing the Jews don't understand is the coming of the Messiah as already happened..

that leaves them outside the covenant promises only, a Word that says they can be grafted back into the covenant as natural sons (not adopted sons) when they come to belief in the Messiah.
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#332
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#332
Hazelelponi said:
@Dan_473 to go one thought further..

Muslims believe Torah is corrupted and untrue, they believe the Gospel doesn't exist, they don't believe in any of the covenant promises.. how is this the same God? How is their God even related to ours?

If anything with all they deny as true their God has more in common with Satan than ours..

While on the other hand, the only thing the Jews don't understand is the coming of the Messiah as already happened..

that leaves them outside the covenant promises only, a Word that says they can be grafted back into the covenant as natural sons (not adopted sons) when they come to belief in the Messiah.
Click to expand...
The fact they are grafted back in as natural sons is your biggest clue as to why it can be said they worship the same God we do.
 
G

garee

Banned
#333
Mar 28, 2016
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#333
Dan_473 said:
That's correct the triune God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

But Jews deny that God is a trinity. Why is it, then, that when Jews deny part of the basic nature of God, many people still say they worship the same God as Christians? But when Muslims deny part of the basic nature of God, people say it is a different God?
Click to expand...
I would share. Three has it uses to represent the end of a matter. So the trinity has value in that way . But God uses two through out the scriptures to represent the work of one. Like the ministry of the father and Son or husband and wife. One creation in his one image mankind.(male and female) Unlike the other creatures two separate creations as different beginnings.

Rather than approaching a conversation and making the point trinity as the end of the matter . Its the witness of two that help to understand the antichrists (another interpreting authority) . They deny both the Son and the father as evidence to the promise in Isaiah 53. two working together to bring the peace of God . because they had no faith that comes by hearing God not seen they looked to their father seen as a source of faith . More of the dynamic duo. The unseen Father working with the Son of man , Jesus. God seen.
No Jesus no Father no Father no Jesus . Know the father and the Son, know the peace God

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Like love and marriage can't have one without the other.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Jesus spoke of not thinking . . . . They were replacing the faith that comes from hearing our Holy Father with men on earth called fathers .The faithless Jews sought after the flesh of Abraham as if he was God not seen not abiding in the spiritual seed, Christ .


Making Abraham as a god in likeness of men as a law of the fathers oral traditions of men

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

The Catholic as carbon copies show themselves replacing the word Abraham with Peter. Same law of the fathers oral traditions of men, different names. Same kind of reformation (sola scriptura) it restored the government of God time and time again .

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Peter to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the church to raise up children unto Peter.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#334
Mar 11, 2014
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#334
garee said:
I would think so. One world corrupted government as the god of this world in respect to all the kingdoms as denominations of men.. . . typified as Nebuchadnezzar the father of lies. . The hand writing was on the wall. Just as when I the blood around the door posts using the Pharaoh as a parable in respect the god of this world.
Click to expand...
The one world government as a parable, that would make sense.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#335
Mar 11, 2014
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#335
Hazelelponi said:
Denying the Messiah (and the understanding of God's nature as revealed to us through the New Covenant understanding of God) is a misunderstanding of the fullness of the God Jews worship.

It doesn't mean they worship a different God. It means they stand outside the covenant promises of God...

The Muslims don't worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - they don't know this God at all.

If you were to convert a Muslim you have to begin with God, not with Jesus.. because their God is a different God.

saying Muslims worship the same God we do is like saying Hindus worship our God - it's just not true.

All you have to explain with Jews is how the Messiah is the promised Messiah, and how He fulfills Scripture. You don't have to start from scratch because they already believe in the God of the covenant.
Click to expand...
"It doesn't mean they (the Jews) worship a different God. "

Why not? What would the Jews have to believe in to make it a different God?
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

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#336
Jul 8, 2019
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#336
Dan_473 said:
"It doesn't mean they (the Jews) worship a different God. "

Why not? What would the Jews have to believe in to make it a different God?
Click to expand...
Answer = They (Jews) would have to believe in a different God than me (which they don't)

Do you believe in the Books of the Law and the Prophets?

That they are God-Breathed Scripture?

Do you believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob?

Do you believe in the Covanent God made with all three, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Do you not believe the Messiah was promised through that exact Covanent?

If your answer is yes what difference is there? That you have a fuller understanding of God now that the Messiah came as promised and you believe in His Name?

You don't worship a different God, so why do you claim they do?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#337
Feb 6, 2014
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#337
JamOn said:
You mean Islam is the fastest growing
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Not only fastest but biggest

Vatican: Islam Surpasses Roman Catholicism as World's Largest Religion
By | Associated Press
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VATICAN CITY – Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.

"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.


https://www.foxnews.com/story/vatican-islam-surpasses-roman-catholicism-as-worlds-largest-religion
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

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#338
Jackson123 said:
Not only fastest but biggest

Vatican: Islam Surpasses Roman Catholicism as World's Largest Religion
By | Associated Press
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VATICAN CITY – Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.

"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.


https://www.foxnews.com/story/vatican-islam-surpasses-roman-catholicism-as-worlds-largest-religion
Click to expand...
Christianity encompasses all denominations, not only Roman Catholic..

In Christianity you have the Protestant and all the denominations that encompasses, Orthodox faiths and Roman Catholic..

When you combine all Christian faith denominations it surpasses Islam in number of adherents..
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#339
Mar 11, 2014
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#339
Hazelelponi said:
@Dan_473 to go one thought further..

Muslims believe Torah is corrupted and untrue, they believe the Gospel doesn't exist, they don't believe in any of the covenant promises.. how is this the same God? How is their God even related to ours?

If anything with all they deny as true their God has more in common with Satan than ours..

While on the other hand, the only thing the Jews don't understand is the coming of the Messiah as already happened..

that leaves them outside the covenant promises only, a Word that says they can be grafted back into the covenant as natural sons (not adopted sons) when they come to belief in the Messiah.
Click to expand...
I believe that most Jews also deny that God is Father son and holy Spirit, and they also deny that the Messiah will be God in the flesh.

"But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being."

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/mashiach.htm
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#340
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#340
Dan_473 said:
I totally hear what you're saying.
For me, one of the issues with a "Bible only" approach is, which Bible?

As far as I can tell from my research, the first time a person wrote down a list of the same books that we have in the New testament was Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria in 367.

If you're interested, you can read more here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon
Click to expand...
I know a lot of bible version, but Jesus sumerized the whole teaching into love


Matthew 22:36-40 King James Version (KJV)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

So if any doctrine against this teaching, against bible.

Also all version of the Bible that I know, say Jesus is the only way to the father. Catholic say Islam in the plan of salvation. It must from the devil
 
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