If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken
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I answered your question, or answers to the question in this thread already.
The God of the Old Testament - described in the Books of the Law and the Prophets - The God worshipped by Israel thousands of years before we were born, is the same God we worship today.
We have a fuller understanding of this God than did our religious predecessors, but Hes NOT a different God.
He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If Your not worshipping THIS God your not in the faith taught us by Christ and the Apostles.
Jews today stand outside the covenant promises, and as such are unsaved and are in need of the Messiah the same as we were prior to our accepting the Lordship of Christ and being covered in His blood and thus, obtaining our salvation through Grace, by Faith.
God's offer of salvation is to all, but whether Jews accept that salvation or not, they still worship the EXACT same God we do. Albeit with less knowledge than we do.
In Athens Paul was taken before the Areopagus, a group of people established centuries earlier who were the judicial authority over the question of new god's being introduced, and who had the power of exile and capital punishment.
Paul's argument was that he wasn't introducing a new God, rather, he was revealing the nature to them of a God they already knew.
The unknown God is most likely the God of Israel. As there were prohibitions against speaking Gods name aloud in Jewish culture, this likely translated into an "unknown" God to the Athenians since names are essential to knowing - and with no name what would they write?
So what Paul did was to make an argument concerning this God, telling them they can now know Him through Paul's teaching.
On this path, He also used something that was written about this God, that we are God's "children" most likely something heard originally from Jews, but through some measure of contact with the Jewish people it's a known concept by these pagans in reference to this God..
We aren't making God's that aren't ours into something we can worship. We worship in Truth, we teach in Truth. And the God of Israel is our God, regardless of whether He is known as the Triune God, or the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob or whether it's the God whose name cannot be uttered.
We don't worship a different God.
The God of the Old Testament - described in the Books of the Law and the Prophets - The God worshipped by Israel thousands of years before we were born, is the same God we worship today.
We have a fuller understanding of this God than did our religious predecessors, but Hes NOT a different God.
He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If Your not worshipping THIS God your not in the faith taught us by Christ and the Apostles.
Jews today stand outside the covenant promises, and as such are unsaved and are in need of the Messiah the same as we were prior to our accepting the Lordship of Christ and being covered in His blood and thus, obtaining our salvation through Grace, by Faith.
God's offer of salvation is to all, but whether Jews accept that salvation or not, they still worship the EXACT same God we do. Albeit with less knowledge than we do.
In Athens Paul was taken before the Areopagus, a group of people established centuries earlier who were the judicial authority over the question of new god's being introduced, and who had the power of exile and capital punishment.
Paul's argument was that he wasn't introducing a new God, rather, he was revealing the nature to them of a God they already knew.
The unknown God is most likely the God of Israel. As there were prohibitions against speaking Gods name aloud in Jewish culture, this likely translated into an "unknown" God to the Athenians since names are essential to knowing - and with no name what would they write?
So what Paul did was to make an argument concerning this God, telling them they can now know Him through Paul's teaching.
On this path, He also used something that was written about this God, that we are God's "children" most likely something heard originally from Jews, but through some measure of contact with the Jewish people it's a known concept by these pagans in reference to this God..
We aren't making God's that aren't ours into something we can worship. We worship in Truth, we teach in Truth. And the God of Israel is our God, regardless of whether He is known as the Triune God, or the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob or whether it's the God whose name cannot be uttered.
We don't worship a different God.
Another quote from the lumen gentium, talking about the three groups of people, Jews, Muslims, people who seek the unknown God
"Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life."
"Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life."
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I find it interesting that God was very active among the Jewish people. He provided signs and miracles, brought forth Commandments and corresponded with Moses and prophets who all spoke of the coming of the Messiah.
Jesus enters the world, brings teachings who’s enlightenment surpasses anything before or since, performs miracles, dies and is Resurrected, and after which God is silent with regards to the Jewish people.
It stands to reason that Jesus is indeed the Messiah. And no, the destruction of the temple has nothing to do with God’s silence with the Jewish people. God is not contained in a building. If Jesus was not the messiah, God would still be interacting with the Jewish people on a “biblical” level. My two cents.
Jesus enters the world, brings teachings who’s enlightenment surpasses anything before or since, performs miracles, dies and is Resurrected, and after which God is silent with regards to the Jewish people.
It stands to reason that Jesus is indeed the Messiah. And no, the destruction of the temple has nothing to do with God’s silence with the Jewish people. God is not contained in a building. If Jesus was not the messiah, God would still be interacting with the Jewish people on a “biblical” level. My two cents.
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Paul quotes from one of the Greek poets on Mars Hill.
Acts 17: 28. 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'
So if I understand what you're saying right, it's that Jews worship the same God as Christians, Jews are just misinformed about God, and deny certain things regarding God's nature that Christians affirm. Is that what you're saying?
If so I would say the same line of reasoning applies to Muslims as well. They just deny even more things then the Jews to do.
Acts 17: 28. 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'
So if I understand what you're saying right, it's that Jews worship the same God as Christians, Jews are just misinformed about God, and deny certain things regarding God's nature that Christians affirm. Is that what you're saying?
If so I would say the same line of reasoning applies to Muslims as well. They just deny even more things then the Jews to do.
Yes we worship the same God as the Jews. I disagree with which poet Paul quoted from, but there's no point arguing for no purpose. Jews worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob just like we do. Same God.
Muslims do not worship the same God. Please note once more, as I've already stated and thoroughly explained in this thread (I'm really beginning to feel like a broken record here) that I'm a former Muslim first off, so I actually know what I'm talking about.
Muslims deny the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not one mention in any writing affirms this God. They deny HIM. They claim the God of Abraham, and deny the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
This makes a very real difference, because it's a completely different God.
This is why they end up with a nonsensical messiah, because in their denial of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they no longer have need of a Messiah and their version becomes nonsensical outside the covenant relationship.
Jesus came to fulfill the Law (Torah). Yet Muslims deny the God of the covenant - and the covenant itself.
They worship a different God.
Muslims do not worship the same God. Please note once more, as I've already stated and thoroughly explained in this thread (I'm really beginning to feel like a broken record here) that I'm a former Muslim first off, so I actually know what I'm talking about.
Muslims deny the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not one mention in any writing affirms this God. They deny HIM. They claim the God of Abraham, and deny the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
This makes a very real difference, because it's a completely different God.
This is why they end up with a nonsensical messiah, because in their denial of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they no longer have need of a Messiah and their version becomes nonsensical outside the covenant relationship.
Jesus came to fulfill the Law (Torah). Yet Muslims deny the God of the covenant - and the covenant itself.
They worship a different God.
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I do not agree with this lumen gentium.
Qoute
Whatever good or truth is found amongs them is looked upon by church as preparation for the gospel....end qoute
Let say Muslim teach do not steal. It is good, but not to prepare them to accept gospel.
The devil pretend to be god, so they teach some good, to make them believe that their religion is from God. Not to prepare them to accept gospel. This is another lie.
quote
She knows that it is given by him who enlighten all man so they finally have life
end quote
Who is she in this sentence?
So finally have a life
Did all man finally go to heaven?
Bile say only few go to heaven. Another lie
Qoute
Whatever good or truth is found amongs them is looked upon by church as preparation for the gospel....end qoute
Let say Muslim teach do not steal. It is good, but not to prepare them to accept gospel.
The devil pretend to be god, so they teach some good, to make them believe that their religion is from God. Not to prepare them to accept gospel. This is another lie.
quote
She knows that it is given by him who enlighten all man so they finally have life
end quote
Who is she in this sentence?
So finally have a life
Did all man finally go to heaven?
Bile say only few go to heaven. Another lie
Yep, but officially less than 30%, I do not know if government honest with the data, but yes a lot of mega church in Indonesia, as far as I know, more people go to church on Sunday compare to Muslim go to mosque on Friday.
This is the biggest church in Indonesia some people say it have more than 250000 member
The preacher is ex Muslim that heal from paralysis, by Jesus
This is the biggest church in Indonesia some people say it have more than 250000 member
The preacher is ex Muslim that heal from paralysis, by Jesus
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Well, I thought we were talking about whether or not the spirit guides everyone to understand that the same 66 books should be in the Bible.
Here's a web page you might find interesting
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html
And another page from that same website
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon5.html
Here's a web page you might find interesting
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon3.html
And another page from that same website
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon5.html
I understand that you feel like a broken record. Maybe if I can express the issue this way. I understand that the Jews say that they worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a trinity. Would you agree with that?
If Jews say that the god they worship is not a trinity, are they still worshiping the same God as Christians?
I would say yes, they are just misinformed about God and denying part of his nature.
Would you agree with that?
So, assuming that we've been agreeing so far,
Muslims say that they worship The God who created everything, at least I think they do. Am I correct about that? And they further say that this is the only God that exists. Again am I correct? And would you agree with me so far?
And up to this point, what Muslims are saying about God would agree with what Christians say about God.
Now, I'm pretty sure that Muslims say that God is not a trinity. Does their denial of the trinity mean that they are worshipping a different God than Christians do?
If so, then it appears to me that there is a double standard. Jews can deny the nature of God, and still be said to be worshiping the same God as Christians. But if Muslims deny the nature of God, then it is a different God.
Now, does the above make sense to you?
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a trinity. Would you agree with that?
If Jews say that the god they worship is not a trinity, are they still worshiping the same God as Christians?
I would say yes, they are just misinformed about God and denying part of his nature.
Would you agree with that?
So, assuming that we've been agreeing so far,
Muslims say that they worship The God who created everything, at least I think they do. Am I correct about that? And they further say that this is the only God that exists. Again am I correct? And would you agree with me so far?
And up to this point, what Muslims are saying about God would agree with what Christians say about God.
Now, I'm pretty sure that Muslims say that God is not a trinity. Does their denial of the trinity mean that they are worshipping a different God than Christians do?
If so, then it appears to me that there is a double standard. Jews can deny the nature of God, and still be said to be worshiping the same God as Christians. But if Muslims deny the nature of God, then it is a different God.
Now, does the above make sense to you?
The she that the quote is referring to is the body of Christ, the church.
It sounds like you disagree with some of the interpretations that the Catholic church has of the scriptures. At this point, I'm not sure if there is benefit for us in going through the lumen gentium line by line.
Of course you are welcome to disagree with any document produced by an ecumenical Church council.
The Catholic position, I think, is that the scriptures are only properly interpreted by the church operating as a whole.
The Protestant position, I would say, is that each individual is to read the Bible by themselves, for themselves, and ask the holy Spirit to give them the proper interpretation. So if that approach sounds right to you, you will be much happier as a Protestant!
It sounds like you disagree with some of the interpretations that the Catholic church has of the scriptures. At this point, I'm not sure if there is benefit for us in going through the lumen gentium line by line.
Of course you are welcome to disagree with any document produced by an ecumenical Church council.
The Catholic position, I think, is that the scriptures are only properly interpreted by the church operating as a whole.
The Protestant position, I would say, is that each individual is to read the Bible by themselves, for themselves, and ask the holy Spirit to give them the proper interpretation. So if that approach sounds right to you, you will be much happier as a Protestant!
No problem at all, it's not that I don't read your posts, I'm just not sure if we're talking about the same issue the same way! 
But I was being serious. Muslim faith is different than a simple not understanding of God.. it's a completely different god altogether.
It is perhaps I am unable to adequately explain why to others.. but it's no misunderstanding, it's intentional trying to make you believe an untruth (i.e. that we have the same god, when we do not)
