The friend that I am talking about I sin online friend from Indonesian bible discussion online.
yes I visit Surabaya, but I am net visit that church
If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken
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The friend that I am talking about I sin online friend from Indonesian bible discussion online.
yes I visit Surabaya, but I am net visit that church
Do you believe that the majority of Jews, those who attempt to follow the law, observant Jews, the majority of them, do they believe in Abraham God?
here's a link to some Martin Luther quotes
http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html
"In the first place it is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works."
So then, for example, should we assume the Martin Luther was not listening to the spirit?
Yep, more likely he believe Jesus as a healer, not a soul savior.
And I do not know if that man saved or not. But as far as I know, to be save, we need to believe Jesus as God.
I do not know if a person never hear about Jesus.
But most Islam in my country hear about Jesus. A lot of testimonies people rise from the death etc
They think they do believe abraham god, but they do not believe that Jesus is God.
But the text book they have is Old Testament, it is revelation from God.
Muslim text book is Quran, is not revelation from God.
Well, the Jews that I have talked to say things like based on the scriptures, Jesus of Nazareth could not be the Messiah, he isn't God, and God is not a trinity. That's what they say God tells them through the scriptures.
I read the link above and I quote part of it
Quote
In the first place it is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works. It says that Abraham was justified by his works when he offered his son Isaac; though in Romans 4 St. Paul teaches to the contrary that Abraham was justified apart from works, by his faith alone, before he had offered his son, and proves it by Moses in Genesis 15. Now although this epistle might be helped and an interpretation 2 devised for this justification by works, it cannot be defended in its application to works of Moses' statement in Genesis 15. For Moses is speaking here only of Abraham's faith, and not of his works, as St. Paul demonstrates in Romans 4. This fault, therefore, proves that this epistle is not the work of any apostle.
End quote
Luther think James not inline with Paul. I think it is just misunderstanding
Paul talk about salvation by faith
James talk about the fruit of salvation.
Luther say salvation by faith alone in reaction to the Catholic that sale forgiveness certificate.
It is the same context when Paul say salvation by faith against Jews tradition and some Old Testament that teach salvation by animal sacrifice
Yes I believe Luther wrong to say James not inline to Paul, but he is right on his attitude against catholic that is corrupt, sale forgiveness certificate
The text book is correct but the interpretation is wrong.
In contrary, Islam text book is not the revelation from abraham god
I'm glad to hear that a lot of Muslims in Indonesia have heard about Jesus!
You probably noticed that lumen gentium was written in 1964. So in 1964, what had most Muslims around the world heard about Jesus? My guess would be whatever it was that Muhammad said about Jesus, so they would have lots of misinformation.
Right, the Jews have the truth in their hands, but they cannot see it
2 Corinthians 3: 15. But to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
Since they have the truth in their hands, but they cannot see it, they believe wrong things about God.
They do not believe God is a trinity.
They do not believe Jesus is God.
They don't even believe Jesus is the messiah.
So because of all that, shall we say that the Jews seek Abraham God? Or that they do not seek Abraham God?
Than just say a people that never heard about Jesus it doesn't matter Muslim or hindo or atheist etc will be subject to different judgment and give biblical references
Lumen gentium state Muslim in the plan of salvation because adore abraham god. It is lie
Yes, I hear what you're saying.
Another quote about the book of James from that same website
"He mangles the Scriptures and thereby opposes Paul and all Scripture."
So the idea that I was talking about, was that if someone is in touch with the holy Spirit, the spirit will tell them which books are in the Bible.
So if Luther didn't think that James should be in the Bible, and another person did, then following the above idea, one of them would not be in touch with the spirit.
I say they seek abraham God, but they define abraham god as they like.
Why they do not accept Jesus, I believe they expect Jesus that free them from Rome. Like gedion lead an army to deliver them from the oppressions of the heathen nation, not Jesus that teach love your enemy
Well, there are different classes of people who have never heard of Jesus.
There are the Jews, maybe they have heard of Jesus, but a veil is over their heart.
And Muslims who have heard misinformation about Jesus, but do believe there is only one God, even if they lack knowledge about that one God.
And the people like those in Athens that Paul was talking to, who seek the unknown God, but also worship other gods at the same time.
Yes, they seek abraham God, but they define abraham god as they like.
Then using that same line of reasoning, I would say that Muslims, at least some of them, seek abraham God, but they define abraham god as they like.
Like I talked about above, the lumen gentium also says that Christ is necessary for salvation, and that there is no salvation apart from the body of Christ. Or words to that effect. So saying that Muslims are part of the plan of salvation, is not saying that Muslims are saved just by being Muslims. They too need to join the body of Christ.
In my opinion we as Christian still make mistake and not perfect. Yes Holy Spirit dwell in Martin and every Christian, but we still have a free will and not a robot. Some time we fail to listen to the Holy spirit
But I believe Martin listen to the Holy Spirit on the fact that Martin against of saling forgiveness certificate and not afraid to die for good reason.
Yep, in that case let God judge, but not say Islam adore abraham god.
To say Islam in the plan of salvation has huge implication.
It mean we do not need to witnessing to them, they do not need Jesus.
Muslim define who is god from wrong text book.
Jews have the eright text book but degine God as they like
I don't think the lumen gentium is saying don't witness to Muslims.
Another quote from it
"Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation."
In my opinion, saying Muslims adore God is not different from saying that Jews seek Abraham God.
And again in my opinion, saying that Muslims are part of the plan of salvation it's not the same as saying that they do not need Christ, or that they are saved by being Muslims.
It all relates to the question we talked about earlier, what happens to the person who had never heard of Jesus? I think it relates.