I get the disciples drank from the same cup, but I haven’t read the practiced should be continued I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not but the first experience I had at a Catholic Church I didn’t quite feel comfortable with that or any of it, what if someone had a mouth sore just seems little unsanitary. I trust God but I don’t know about that.
If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken
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Well your theology is somewhat confused. Sacraments and intercessions are works not grace therefore they do not contribute to salvation. I have Catholic in-laws and I have done some study of the last forty years. Catholics say one thing but mean something entirely different from what the bible teaches.
To understand Romans 10:8-10 and Mat 7:21 you must include context. Mat 7:21 is prophetic to Israel and Romans 10:8-10 is written to the church.
Judas is a study in and of himself. Don't suppose to know the mind of God on the matter. Judas never believed Christ was the Messiah that he was seeking. Judas wanted power and wealth much like the Catholic church. Muslims are heathen and have no part in the coming kingdom of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
To understand Romans 10:8-10 and Mat 7:21 you must include context. Mat 7:21 is prophetic to Israel and Romans 10:8-10 is written to the church.
Judas is a study in and of himself. Don't suppose to know the mind of God on the matter. Judas never believed Christ was the Messiah that he was seeking. Judas wanted power and wealth much like the Catholic church. Muslims are heathen and have no part in the coming kingdom of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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At Luke 7:40-50, an interesting incident in the Lord's life is told.
A common courtesy extended to guests in people's homes back in Jesus' day
was to offer them some water to wash their feet, give them a kiss of
greeting, and a dollop of lotion for their hair. I don't know what the problem
was, but Jesus' host denied him that whole routine.
One of the common courtesies in our day is that of extending our
condolences to someone who's lost a loved one.
Well; I've posted this same topic on several forums across the internet and
it's curious to me that so few Christians expressed the slightest sympathy
for my loss; which is just common courtesy even among the heathen.
Back in 1997 when we first went online, a man on the old Excite message
boards warned me that forums are the armpit of the internet. Turns out he
was right. It's a cruel world out here in cyberspace. The internet is a risky
place to share one's personal feelings. It's pretty badly infested with
heartless critics and thoughtless clods.
Incidentally, the dinner host was a Pharisee. It's interesting that Jesus got
more respect from common folk than he did from the religious elite. What is
there to be proud of in affiliation with the one true religion when one's
sensitivities are those of a beast?
_
At Luke 7:40-50, an interesting incident in the Lord's life is told.
A common courtesy extended to guests in people's homes back in Jesus' day
was to offer them some water to wash their feet, give them a kiss of
greeting, and a dollop of lotion for their hair. I don't know what the problem
was, but Jesus' host denied him that whole routine.
One of the common courtesies in our day is that of extending our
condolences to someone who's lost a loved one.
Well; I've posted this same topic on several forums across the internet and
it's curious to me that so few Christians expressed the slightest sympathy
for my loss; which is just common courtesy even among the heathen.
Back in 1997 when we first went online, a man on the old Excite message
boards warned me that forums are the armpit of the internet. Turns out he
was right. It's a cruel world out here in cyberspace. The internet is a risky
place to share one's personal feelings. It's pretty badly infested with
heartless critics and thoughtless clods.
Incidentally, the dinner host was a Pharisee. It's interesting that Jesus got
more respect from common folk than he did from the religious elite. What is
there to be proud of in affiliation with the one true religion when one's
sensitivities are those of a beast?
_
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Well, when they say the plan of salvation also includes Muslims, I don't think they are saying that all Muslims get to go to heaven just because they are Muslims. Nor are they saying that they endorse everything that Muslims say, or that the Quran teaches.
They have a particular train of thought going there, did you start reading from the beginning of the document?
When they start talking about non-christians, first they talk about the Jews. Maybe we should resolve that question first, the question of do Jews and Christians worship the same God.
They have a particular train of thought going there, did you start reading from the beginning of the document?
When they start talking about non-christians, first they talk about the Jews. Maybe we should resolve that question first, the question of do Jews and Christians worship the same God.
Hi Dan, I believe you are correct, the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, because they make extensive use of the Bible to demonstrate that all of their "traditional" beliefs are from God, even their doctrines/dogmas which stand in stark opposition to God's word, such as Mary being an "immaculate conception" like her Son Jesus, ~the~ Immaculate Conception, was.
What the RCC teaches about the Christian faith is far and away correct (85-90% of it anyway), but when they bend the Scriptures, in an attempt to make them say what they need them to say to support their various non-Biblical doctrines (like the one I just mentioned above), they get things VERY wrong, unfortunately
So, while the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, they do, in fact, corrupt the Scriptures themselves in such cases, just like the the Jews did with their oral "Traditions" (their "Oral Torah", as they call it). As the Lord pointed out however, the Jews nullified/invalidated the word of God for the sake of their "Tradition" .. e.g. Matthew 15:4-6.
It should also be pointed out that as important as the oral traditions were to the Jews in Jesus' day, He never cited Jewish traditional beliefs as evidence that His teachings were from God. Rather, He always said, "it is written" (or He made some other similar statement), citing the written OT as His proof instead.
~Deut
What the RCC teaches about the Christian faith is far and away correct (85-90% of it anyway), but when they bend the Scriptures, in an attempt to make them say what they need them to say to support their various non-Biblical doctrines (like the one I just mentioned above), they get things VERY wrong, unfortunately
So, while the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, they do, in fact, corrupt the Scriptures themselves in such cases, just like the the Jews did with their oral "Traditions" (their "Oral Torah", as they call it). As the Lord pointed out however, the Jews nullified/invalidated the word of God for the sake of their "Tradition" .. e.g. Matthew 15:4-6.It should also be pointed out that as important as the oral traditions were to the Jews in Jesus' day, He never cited Jewish traditional beliefs as evidence that His teachings were from God. Rather, He always said, "it is written" (or He made some other similar statement), citing the written OT as His proof instead.
~Deut
Lots of great points there!
As I talked about earlier in this thread, Protestants tend assume that the truth of the Bible is found by reading Bible for oneself, by oneself, and asking the holy Spirit to give one the proper interpretation. So each individual gets the proper interpretation as an individual.
Catholic and Eastern Orthodox assume that God communicates his truth to the body of Christ as a whole, to the church. I think they also say that when the church meets in council, a council of the whole church, the outcome cannot be in error.
Another way to look at it is that in the Gospel of John, Jesus talks about having more things to say, but his disciples can't bear them now. When did Jesus finally get out what he wanted to say? I think Protestants would tend to say when the last book of the New testament was written, usually said to be the book of Revelation. I think Catholics and Orthodox would say He hasn't ever stopped speaking.
Another thing I think is interesting to consider is that if the Catholics are only about 90% right, how does that affect what books were picked to be in the New testament? Without looking at tradition, how does one decide which books are in the Bible?
Jews is ethnic, Jew that believe believe in Jesus, believe trinity.
Atheist Jews not worship abraham god.
Some Jew think they worship abraham god but not.
Some so call Christian but in matt 7 Jesus say I never you, it mean these people thing they worship Jesus but not.
Muslim and abraham do not share the same god, because Muslim god and abraham god have different teaching.
So catholic is nothing but lie.
Catholic not worship the same Jesus as Christian do.
Christian Jesus never teach to pray to Mary.
Christian Jesus teach whosoever believe in Him will be save.
Catholic Jesus teach Muslim and Jew that are not believe in Jesus go to heaven.
Catholic accused st Stephen stupid, if Jew do not need believe in Jesus, why he die to preach Jesus to them?
Catholic accused St. Peter, the first pope dumb, Jew do not need Jesus for salvation, why he goes to prison to preach Jesus to Jews.
Ironically, catholic pray to dumb St. Peter.
Atheist Jews not worship abraham god.
Some Jew think they worship abraham god but not.
Some so call Christian but in matt 7 Jesus say I never you, it mean these people thing they worship Jesus but not.
Muslim and abraham do not share the same god, because Muslim god and abraham god have different teaching.
So catholic is nothing but lie.
Catholic not worship the same Jesus as Christian do.
Christian Jesus never teach to pray to Mary.
Christian Jesus teach whosoever believe in Him will be save.
Catholic Jesus teach Muslim and Jew that are not believe in Jesus go to heaven.
Catholic accused st Stephen stupid, if Jew do not need believe in Jesus, why he die to preach Jesus to them?
Catholic accused St. Peter, the first pope dumb, Jew do not need Jesus for salvation, why he goes to prison to preach Jesus to Jews.
Ironically, catholic pray to dumb St. Peter.
Hi Dan, I believe you are correct, the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, because they make extensive use of the Bible to demonstrate that all of their "traditional" beliefs are from God, even their doctrines/dogmas which stand in stark opposition to God's word, such as Mary being an "immaculate conception" like her Son Jesus, ~the~ Immaculate Conception, was.
What the RCC teaches about the Christian faith is far and away correct (85-90% of it anyway), but when they bend the Scriptures, in an attempt to make them say what they need them to say to support their various non-Biblical doctrines (like the one I just mentioned above), they get things VERY wrong, unfortunately So, while the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, they do, in fact, corrupt the Scriptures themselves in such cases, just like the the Jews did with their oral "Traditions" (their "Oral Torah", as they call it). As the Lord pointed out however, the Jews nullified/invalidated the word of God for the sake of their "Tradition" .. e.g. Matthew 15:4-6.
It should also be pointed out that as important as the oral traditions were to the Jews in Jesus' day, He never cited Jewish traditional beliefs as evidence that His teachings were from God. Rather, He always said, "it is written" (or He made some other similar statement), citing the written OT as His proof instead.
~Deut
What the RCC teaches about the Christian faith is far and away correct (85-90% of it anyway), but when they bend the Scriptures, in an attempt to make them say what they need them to say to support their various non-Biblical doctrines (like the one I just mentioned above), they get things VERY wrong, unfortunately
So, while the RCC would never say that the Scriptures are corrupt, they do, in fact, corrupt the Scriptures themselves in such cases, just like the the Jews did with their oral "Traditions" (their "Oral Torah", as they call it). As the Lord pointed out however, the Jews nullified/invalidated the word of God for the sake of their "Tradition" .. e.g. Matthew 15:4-6.It should also be pointed out that as important as the oral traditions were to the Jews in Jesus' day, He never cited Jewish traditional beliefs as evidence that His teachings were from God. Rather, He always said, "it is written" (or He made some other similar statement), citing the written OT as His proof instead.
~Deut
When Jesus quotes scripture to the Pharisees, or people like his disciples who are in the general tradition of the Pharisees, he quotes from what we call the old testament.
When he talks to the Sadducees, he just quotes from the first five books of the Bible, which is what the Sadducees considered scripture. (There may be a bit of a sampling error here, because Jesus doesn't talk to the Sadducees all that often.)
When Paul talked to the Athenian philosophers, he didn't quote any of the Jewish scriptures, but he did quote from one or more of their poets.
(I think the only place Jesus talked to a gentile was the Phoenician woman, and I don't think he quotes scripture there. But I could be wrong about that.)
So, a possible conclusion from the above is that Jesus and Paul quoted to their audience from whatever writings their audience considered reliable.
Some Jews about 150 BC translated the old testament into Greek, which translation the New testament authors seem to frequently use. But the list of books in that translation is different from what most Protestants use today. Were the apostles using that list from the Jews?
You're probably familiar with the miratorian fragment. It gives a clue into what books were being used in I think it's the middle of Italy about 150 ad. But it's a different list from which books are commonly used today.
You're probably familiar with the miratorian fragment. It gives a clue into what books were being used in I think it's the middle of Italy about 150 ad. But it's a different list from which books are commonly used today.
I don't have a firm opinion about which books should be in the Bible. I do think there was a kind of confirmation bias, when a person has grown up with a set of books and believed they are the scriptures. Then, because they don't want to see a conflict, they will say it all fits together beautifully.
But Martin Luther said basically that the book of James contained wrong theology. And he also didn't really like the book of Revelation, if I remember right.
Is the book of Revelation the last book to be written? When were the books of second and third John written? It is tradition that they were written by the apostle John.
And of course, to say that nothing can be written after the book of Revelation assumes that the book of Revelation is scripture. But who wrote it? Again without looking a tradition, all that can be said is someone named John... Or someone claiming to be John, there were lots of forgeries back then, I hear.
But Martin Luther said basically that the book of James contained wrong theology. And he also didn't really like the book of Revelation, if I remember right.
Is the book of Revelation the last book to be written? When were the books of second and third John written? It is tradition that they were written by the apostle John.
And of course, to say that nothing can be written after the book of Revelation assumes that the book of Revelation is scripture. But who wrote it? Again without looking a tradition, all that can be said is someone named John... Or someone claiming to be John, there were lots of forgeries back then, I hear.
The Jews who do their very best to keep the law, Torah, and believe the scriptures that they have, what we call the old testament... Though they have a different interpretation of some of the passages.
Religious, observant Jews, that's who I'm talking about.
Those Jews, nearly all of them, do not believe in the trinity or that Jesus is God.
If Abraham God is a trinity, and those Jews say they believe in a God who is not a trinity, do they believe in Abraham God?
Religious, observant Jews, that's who I'm talking about.
Those Jews, nearly all of them, do not believe in the trinity or that Jesus is God.
If Abraham God is a trinity, and those Jews say they believe in a God who is not a trinity, do they believe in Abraham God?
I did not ignore what you wrote, in fact I responded to you 4 times I think on this page alone
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...licism-is-mistaken.186642/page-9#post-4002852
I presented some links and some evidence and asked if you had something you wanted to present.
I believe this was my latest post to you on the issue
Did you respond to that? If so, I didn't see it, please point me to your response.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...licism-is-mistaken.186642/page-9#post-4002852
I presented some links and some evidence and asked if you had something you wanted to present.
I believe this was my latest post to you on the issue
Did you respond to that? If so, I didn't see it, please point me to your response.
They think they believe in abraham god but is not.
Same problem with people that think they believe and worship jesus but is not
Matt 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people think they believe in Jesus, call Jesus god, but is not. Believe in jesus not only believe that Jesus God, but also believe all the teaching of Jesus.
My brother, if you believe Muslim, Jews that thausand time hear about Jesus and refused to believe go to heaven, I suspect you do not believe the teaching of Jesus
John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Same problem with people that think they believe and worship jesus but is not
Matt 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people think they believe in Jesus, call Jesus god, but is not. Believe in jesus not only believe that Jesus God, but also believe all the teaching of Jesus.
My brother, if you believe Muslim, Jews that thausand time hear about Jesus and refused to believe go to heaven, I suspect you do not believe the teaching of Jesus
John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.