Is there any Lutheran's here?

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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#1
#1
I have a couple of questions if you don't mind answering.
Now mind you I am not being contentious. I am just trying to understand.

1. Please explain why infant baptism, as to why you do that?

2. Also please explain why you don't submerge when baptizing.
The reason I asked the second question is because Paul equates baptism to being buried with Christ, and I don't understand how pouring water equates to being buried.
I know there are those here who will cause a hot debate over the matter but if you can ignore all that and offer an explanation, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#2
#2
The title should read are there any not is. Sorry grammatical error on my part, I didn't catch it until too late to rectify it. I was teetering between is there a Lutheran (singular), or are there any Lutherans ( plural) and duffed the title. And of course auto correct added an apostrophe. So rather than plural it's possessive.
Sweet.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#3
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,783
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#3
Locoponydirtman said:
1. Please explain why infant baptism, as to why you do that? 2. Also please explain why you don't submerge when baptizing.
Click to expand...
While I am not Lutheran, this summation of Luther's beliefs about infant baptism should be helpful. Luther tried to rationalize his unscriptural ideas about baptism:

Truth Affirmed (according to Luther)
  • That Christ commanded us to bring the children to Him.
  • That infants acquire faith as a gift of God through the faithful intercession of parents and sponsors. [Note: Not in Scripture]
  • That this faith is a personal faith for salvation (not one of intellectual understanding, comprehension or facts, but the gift of God, Ephesians 2;8-9). [Note: This is the Calvinistic idea of saving faith as a gift of God]
  • That the Lord's standard is not that of adult intellectual faith, but that adults must become as little children.
  • That this faith appropriates the blessings of Baptism.
  • That this baptism is the same baptism for children and adults.
  • That no one is to be baptized without the belief that they have a personal faith in Christ as Savior but only those we believe to have faith should be brought to Christ. [Note: This contradicts infant baptism]
  • That there is no salvation apart from a personal faith in Christ, even with baptism. Faith is the hand that reaches into the waters of baptism and retrieves the pearl of salvation.
    [Note: Luther teaches that true baptism is water connected with the Word of God. When properly administered in connection with the Word it is always a Godly baptism, even if the candidate lacks faith. The lack of faith, however, means the benefits of baptism are not appropriated to him. When that person genuinely believes, the benefits of baptism are applied to him, it is not necessary to be rebaptized. Luther is NOT suggesting to baptize someone whom we know to be without faith, he is saying only that the problem is not in the Baptism, but in the lack of faith. How can we know if an infant has faith? We cannot know with certainty, just as as we cannot know whether an adult profession is genuine. With an adult we look at his life and hear his confession, his testimony and on that basis we believe he has faith. With an infant we look at the parents and sponsors, as Luther puts it the "alien faith" and trust God's promises that He receives the children brought to Him and brings them into the Kingdom Of God as He promised.] [Note: These are all Luther's own ideas, not scriptural]
  • That preaching is elevated beyond the reason and the rational thoughts of man. Preaching is not to reach the rational mind, but the spiritual mind. Its effect is to those who have "ears to hear" and not the intellect. It is preaching the Word of God that creates faith, not the exercise of the intellect or reason (which, in fact, are opposed to the foolish notions of faith). [Note: This is Luther's own idea]
  • Only in Baptism is it possible to obey Christ to "bring the little children to Him". [Note: That is not what is taught in Scripture]
https://www.biblebob.com/theology/summary.htm
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#4
Jul 2, 2011
21,483
6,737
113
#4
Locoponydirtman said:
I have a couple of questions if you don't mind answering.
Now mind you I am not being contentious. I am just trying to understand.

1. Please explain why infant baptism, as to why you do that?

2. Also please explain why you don't submerge when baptizing.
The reason I asked the second question is because Paul equates baptism to being buried with Christ, and I don't understand how pouring water equates to being buried.
I know there are those here who will cause a hot debate over the matter but if you can ignore all that and offer an explanation, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Click to expand...
This doctrine of men probably sstems from the dedication of the newborns eight days after birth………..
 
H

Hevosmies358

Guest
#5
#5
Locoponydirtman said:
2. Also please explain why you don't submerge when baptizing.
The reason I asked the second question is because Paul equates baptism to being buried with Christ, and I don't understand how pouring water equates to being buried.
I know there are those here who will cause a hot debate over the matter but if you can ignore all that and offer an explanation, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I've asked this from Lutherans. They say usually that its best to not take it overly literally (while taking John 6 literally)

The truth is that Lutherans are like diet coke. There is the real coke (catholicism) and there is diet coke (lutheranism).

Much like all the other sprinklin denominations. I cant understand why the church started sprinkling to begin with, but i'll put some blame on Augustine for his original sin teaching that all unbaptized go to hell straight away.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#6
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#6
Hevosmies358 said:
The truth is that Lutherans are like diet coke. There is the real coke (catholicism) and there is diet coke (lutheranism).
Click to expand...
The Reformers had every right and reason to carefully examine infant baptism and baptismal regeneration. The Anabaptists had already taken a biblical position. Yet the Reformers failed to properly address this matter, and as a result the Reformed Churches became an amalgam of Bible truth and Catholic nonsense.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#7
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#7
Catholic’s do the same, so that’s where all the baby dunking comes from the passage that speaks of calling the little children, that’s plain weird.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#8
#8
Is there a reason not to baptize children, babies?
Shouldn't we consecrate our children to the Lord?
Now please understand that I'm not making any assertion here I'm still asking questions. I may never be able to make any assertion.
There are several occasions in the New testament that says something to the effect of, a person believed and he and his whole household were baptized.
Now giving that Jewish custom circumcises children at 8 days, wouldn't it stand to reason that if the whole household was baptized they would have also baptized the children?
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#9
Jun 10, 2019
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#9
JaumeJ said:
This doctrine of men probably sstems from the dedication of the newborns eight days after birth………..
Click to expand...
So a continued practice of OT laws
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#10
Jun 10, 2019
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#10
In Acts 16 the jailer is washing the wounds of Paul and Silas, he got his hands wet but wasn’t submerged or sprinkled or anything like that hmm.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#11
Jul 2, 2011
21,483
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#11
JamOn said:
So a continued practice of OT laws
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Probably, but I would not do this unless the Father told me to do it, and it is a little late in my trek for that to happen. Nothing wrong with dedicating a child to God bey parents who both truly believe, but to say an enfant is truly "baptized" is ridiculous since baptisme should be a conscious act and not something drilled into an innocent.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#12
Jun 10, 2019
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#12
JaumeJ said:
Probably, but I would not do this unless the Father told me to do it, and it is a little late in my trek for that to happen. Nothing wrong with dedicating a child to God bey parents who both truly believe, but to say an enfant is truly "baptized" is ridiculous since baptisme should be a conscious act and not something drilled into an innocent.
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seems so I agree, a conscious act

1 Peter 3:21
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

As far as I know babies dont make pledges.
 
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