Resurrection
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Hello Perfection, if you could be a little more specific, it would be helpful. For instance, I assume that you are referring to Paul's teaching concerning the resurrection of the saints (in 1 Corinthians 15), yes, not the Lord's Resurrection?
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
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It is an event -- a supernatural event which is entirely by the power of God and Christ.
Even though it is in Paul's epistles, we must believe that the Holy Spirit revealed it to the prophets and apostles. Paul has given us the most detail, but the Lord spoke of both the resurrections (the "first resurrection" for the just and "second resurrection" the unjust).
The resurrection of the saints is in fact the Resurrection/Rapture and the primary Bible passages are 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4.
Even though it is in Paul's epistles, we must believe that the Holy Spirit revealed it to the prophets and apostles. Paul has given us the most detail, but the Lord spoke of both the resurrections (the "first resurrection" for the just and "second resurrection" the unjust).
The resurrection of the saints is in fact the Resurrection/Rapture and the primary Bible passages are 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4.
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For believers, unlike the popular theories, it is not a mega, visible event that happens in a day but a continuous process stretching all the way from 1st century to the end of age. Believers actually don't die (sleep) but in a twinkle of an eye, transition into life eternal and indwell other believers (through the mind of Christ).
This is heavily allegorized in the scripture and it is further hidden in Revelation when the living believers are described as the temple of God or new Jerusalem, full with dimensions (number of people that will finally make the temple).
1 Cor 15:29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
This is heavily allegorized in the scripture and it is further hidden in Revelation when the living believers are described as the temple of God or new Jerusalem, full with dimensions (number of people that will finally make the temple).
1 Cor 15:29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
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Hello Perfection,
Just a correction, This is not Paul's teaching, but is directly from the Lord:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Paul is just having written what the Lord said. And as Nehemiah posted, it will be a group of event of both the dead and living in Christ.
Just a correction, This is not Paul's teaching, but is directly from the Lord:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Paul is just having written what the Lord said. And as Nehemiah posted, it will be a group of event of both the dead and living in Christ.
Hello Perfection, if you could be a little more specific, it would be helpful. For instance, I assume that you are referring to Paul's teaching concerning the resurrection of the saints (in 1 Corinthians 15), yes, not the Lord's Resurrection?
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
Hello Perfection,
Just a correction, This is not Paul's teaching, but is directly from the Lord:
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Paul is just having written what the Lord said. And as Nehemiah posted, it will be a group of event of both the dead and living in Christ.
Hello Perfection, if you could be a little more specific, it would be helpful. For instance, I assume that you are referring to Paul's teaching concerning the resurrection of the saints (in 1 Corinthians 15), yes, not the Lord's Resurrection?
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
Thanks for your help!
~Deut
p.s. - knowing the specific verses that you'd like to discuss would also be helpful. Thanks again
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Paul is just having written what the Lord said. And as Nehemiah posted, it will be a group of event of both the dead and living in Christ.
Its an event that is still in the process (the gate is open). It began with a promise opening graves. . . continuing. . . to be absent of the body is to present in the New Jerusalem the city of Christ prepared as His bride Christians . It will be closed on the last day.
The book of the law will be cast into the lake of fire never to rise and condemn and kill (you shall surely die) another creation.
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word (the letter) that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The book of the law will be cast into the lake of fire never to rise and condemn and kill (you shall surely die) another creation.
Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word (the letter) that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Why does the question still remain, when I provided the answer? To be clear, below is the detailed account of the resurrection of the dead and the living being changed and caught up:
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words"
According to the scripture above, the Lord will descend from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first, immortal and glorified. All of those in Christ who will have died in Christ from the on-set of the church up until the appearing of the Lord, their bodies will all be reanimated and raised from the dust of the earth and all at the same time. Immediately after the dead have been raised, those still alive in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with the dead who will have just resurrected. At that moment the entire church will be gathered together, from beginning to end, at the same time and same place in the air, where in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.
Therefore in answer to your question, the resurrection is an event which will take place in a flash, or as the Greek word atomos which is defined as a moment of time to short to be divided, is how quickly this event of the resurrection and our transformation will take place.
As for the word "process," it describes a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end, which is not the case with the resurrection and those being changed and caught up. To be clear, the resurrection will be an event which will take place in a Nano second to all who have died in Christ and to those in Christ who are still alive.
To be even clearer, the resurrection is not a process that takes place over time to each individual, but will be an event which happens all at once.
I hope that this answers your question.
Blessings in Christ!
"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words"
According to the scripture above, the Lord will descend from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first, immortal and glorified. All of those in Christ who will have died in Christ from the on-set of the church up until the appearing of the Lord, their bodies will all be reanimated and raised from the dust of the earth and all at the same time. Immediately after the dead have been raised, those still alive in Christ will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with the dead who will have just resurrected. At that moment the entire church will be gathered together, from beginning to end, at the same time and same place in the air, where in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.
Therefore in answer to your question, the resurrection is an event which will take place in a flash, or as the Greek word atomos which is defined as a moment of time to short to be divided, is how quickly this event of the resurrection and our transformation will take place.
As for the word "process," it describes a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end, which is not the case with the resurrection and those being changed and caught up. To be clear, the resurrection will be an event which will take place in a Nano second to all who have died in Christ and to those in Christ who are still alive.
To be even clearer, the resurrection is not a process that takes place over time to each individual, but will be an event which happens all at once.
I hope that this answers your question.
Blessings in Christ!
Living stones are the saints that walk by a exclusive faith that coming from hearing God(sola scriptura) . Many lively stones make up the bride of Christ as our spiritual unseen house made up of all nation of the world
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
She as a new creature no longer Jew nor gentile male nor female is described in a parable in Revelation 12. The chaste virgin bride. Who does not fornicate with other gods of flesh and blood and violate the first commandment.
She obeys the commandments of God not to go above that as it is written and not to follow after those of men who do make men into gods in the likeness of men as oral traditions . They make the faith of Christ without effect removing the interpretation of the Holy Spirit .
Jesus said to "think not" that we walk by sight after what the eyes see the temporal but walk by faith the unseen eternal revealed by our father in heaven The faithless Jew has a faith that comes from what the eyes see .the law of the fathers. They have received their reward as a sign of 15 minutes of false pride. . making them eligible for the hall of shame.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
She as a new creature no longer Jew nor gentile male nor female is described in a parable in Revelation 12. The chaste virgin bride. Who does not fornicate with other gods of flesh and blood and violate the first commandment.
She obeys the commandments of God not to go above that as it is written and not to follow after those of men who do make men into gods in the likeness of men as oral traditions . They make the faith of Christ without effect removing the interpretation of the Holy Spirit .
Jesus said to "think not" that we walk by sight after what the eyes see the temporal but walk by faith the unseen eternal revealed by our father in heaven The faithless Jew has a faith that comes from what the eyes see .the law of the fathers. They have received their reward as a sign of 15 minutes of false pride. . making them eligible for the hall of shame.
Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
In other threads you have argued that resurrection of the dead as a miraculous event never occurs because "precious in the sight of the Lord is the DEATH of His saints."
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. I'd encourage you to review your beliefs, and your integrity, in light of Scripture.
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. I'd encourage you to review your beliefs, and your integrity, in light of Scripture.
Reanimated ?
The whole creation was corrupted. Not just what the eyes see. It would seem as if you were offering reincarnation.? The flesh does not become spirit. Flesh and blood will not enter the new heavens an earth .
We do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world .He gives us new creatures a incorruptible spirit that will rise on the last day and be united with our new incorruptible bodies . Those who did not receive a new spirit will not rise on the last day
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Psalm 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The whole creation was corrupted. Not just what the eyes see. It would seem as if you were offering reincarnation.? The flesh does not become spirit. Flesh and blood will not enter the new heavens an earth .
We do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world .He gives us new creatures a incorruptible spirit that will rise on the last day and be united with our new incorruptible bodies . Those who did not receive a new spirit will not rise on the last day
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Psalm 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Hi Dino246,
I must have the person that you were responding to on ignore, because I can't see him/her. But it is amazing the reasoning that people base their conclusions on such as what they said above about the resurrection never occurring because "precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His Saints" as though it meant that because their death is precious to Him that they will remain in a state of death, while ignoring the scriptures that proclaim that the dead will rise, of both the righteous and the wicked. This reasoning comes from a lack of not taking all related scripture into consideration.
I must have the person that you were responding to on ignore, because I can't see him/her. But it is amazing the reasoning that people base their conclusions on such as what they said above about the resurrection never occurring because "precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His Saints" as though it meant that because their death is precious to Him that they will remain in a state of death, while ignoring the scriptures that proclaim that the dead will rise, of both the righteous and the wicked. This reasoning comes from a lack of not taking all related scripture into consideration.
Ok, that makes sense since Noose is on my ignore list. Quite true that reanimation and reincarnation are not the same thing.
This is for Noose, since I know that you have a good understanding of scripture.
At the time of the resurrection God will reanimate the bodies of the dead in Christ, being raised immortal and glorified. Where reincarnation is a Hindu pagan belief of people going through life after life, sometimes even coming back as an animal. However, scripture states that man is once to die then comes the judgment.
This is for Noose, since I know that you have a good understanding of scripture.
At the time of the resurrection God will reanimate the bodies of the dead in Christ, being raised immortal and glorified. Where reincarnation is a Hindu pagan belief of people going through life after life, sometimes even coming back as an animal. However, scripture states that man is once to die then comes the judgment.
Thanks
I think he meant fleshly bodies will be raised from the dust and judged twice. . Our new spirit comes from above. Its where it returns to when the breath of the corrupted spirit is taken away. . If born again we receive a new incorruptible spirit. the dust will go up in smke on the last day. no more rudiments of this courted creation.
It would seem that kind of animation is reincarnation giving spirit life to the flesh restoring it. . The dead will not raise. They have no spirit . The letter of the law that kills. . it will be tossed into the lake of fire never to rise and condemn any creation ever again.
I think he meant fleshly bodies will be raised from the dust and judged twice. . Our new spirit comes from above. Its where it returns to when the breath of the corrupted spirit is taken away. . If born again we receive a new incorruptible spirit. the dust will go up in smke on the last day. no more rudiments of this courted creation.
It would seem that kind of animation is reincarnation giving spirit life to the flesh restoring it. . The dead will not raise. They have no spirit . The letter of the law that kills. . it will be tossed into the lake of fire never to rise and condemn any creation ever again.