Not By Works
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Obedience apart from faith is not obedience. Seeking to obtain or maintain salvation by obedience to the letter of the law is not obedience. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen and without faith it's impossible to please God. Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments (descriptive of genuine believers) remain in His love. IF is a confirmation. You are turning this into salvation by works.
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. *Contrast between those who are born of God and those who are not.*
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.
1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. *Contrast between those who are born of God and those who are not.*
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.
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That means salvation is conditional. You have to do something to obtain it and in your case, that something is trusting exclusively in what Jesus did. Now, does it really matter if i trust in what Jesus did and still do some works?
My beliefs are different; i do believe i was justified at the cross, long before i was born and long before i knew Jesus or believed in His works. Now that i know Him, i abide in Him by obeying Him.
My beliefs are different; i do believe i was justified at the cross, long before i was born and long before i knew Jesus or believed in His works. Now that i know Him, i abide in Him by obeying Him.
Interesting tense.
You are saved because you are continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did, i wonder what would happen the moment you stop trusting.
Why didn't you say, you were eternally saved the moment you trusted exclusively in what Jesus did?
Either way, it is all about you. What you did.
You are saved because you are continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did, i wonder what would happen the moment you stop trusting.
Why didn't you say, you were eternally saved the moment you trusted exclusively in what Jesus did?
Either way, it is all about you. What you did.
Salvation is conditional on faith in Christ. There is nothing wrong with doing works. Those who have been saved by grace through faith are created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10) The problem is when you trust in works for salvation instead of in Christ alone. We are saved through faith, not works.
Your beliefs are certainly different. Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or are you ALSO trusting in your best efforts to obey Him/works as a supplemental means to obtaining salvation?
Your beliefs are certainly different. Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or are you ALSO trusting in your best efforts to obey Him/works as a supplemental means to obtaining salvation?
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For by grace you have been (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. Yes, I am continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did. 20 + years and still counting. 
Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.
If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord.
Salvation is eternal. It's not all about me. It's all about what Jesus did. Through faith, I trust exclusively in what Jesus did. He gets all the merit/credit.
Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord.
Salvation is eternal. It's not all about me. It's all about what Jesus did. Through faith, I trust exclusively in what Jesus did. He gets all the merit/credit.
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Hi Susanna,
We have not exchanged posts before.
Some wonder why individuals get excluded from forums such as these.
The truth is simple. We are just people sharing our views of Jesus and our walks.
Yet some feel because we do not look at faith like they do, we have crossed a moral line,
are evil, worthy of sending to hell, deceived, intentionally dishonest and wrong.
When this conviction becomes you are "satan" or "possessed" it is hard for administrators
not to see this as so extreme these members need to be removed.
It has not seemed to strike people as soon as you think someone is evil by holding an opinion,
one does not think, Jesus did not love like this. If Jesus did not love like this, then neither can I.
There are wonderful folk who think that these positions are just exuberant passion for faith,
not realising it is actually sin in action. How many steps between you are evil to executions?
This has been the history of the church and how these realities progress. God bless you
We have not exchanged posts before.
Some wonder why individuals get excluded from forums such as these.
The truth is simple. We are just people sharing our views of Jesus and our walks.
Yet some feel because we do not look at faith like they do, we have crossed a moral line,
are evil, worthy of sending to hell, deceived, intentionally dishonest and wrong.
When this conviction becomes you are "satan" or "possessed" it is hard for administrators
not to see this as so extreme these members need to be removed.
It has not seemed to strike people as soon as you think someone is evil by holding an opinion,
one does not think, Jesus did not love like this. If Jesus did not love like this, then neither can I.
There are wonderful folk who think that these positions are just exuberant passion for faith,
not realising it is actually sin in action. How many steps between you are evil to executions?
This has been the history of the church and how these realities progress. God bless you
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There you go. Salvation is conditional not so free as it is widely thought, so an individual has to actually do something and that something is to willingly choose Christ and believe in His works. I still can not believe this is coming from an OSAS proponent, i don't hold such beliefs.
It really doesn't matter, works and salvation by faith alone according to you are just the same because it depends on the individual and their choices.
While i was still a sinner (before i believed, before i was born), Christ died for me and reconciled me to God and this is Love. Now that i know what Christ did, i put effort to abide in His love by obeying His commands.
It really doesn't matter, works and salvation by faith alone according to you are just the same because it depends on the individual and their choices.
While i was still a sinner (before i believed, before i was born), Christ died for me and reconciled me to God and this is Love. Now that i know what Christ did, i put effort to abide in His love by obeying His commands.
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For by grace you have been (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. Yes, I am continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did. 20 + years and still counting. Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.
If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord.
Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord.
Continuing to trust in what Jesus did means you willingly, continuously maintain your salvation because the moment you stop trusting, then salvation is gone.
Salvation is eternal. It's not all about me. It's all about what Jesus did. Through faith, I trust exclusively in what Jesus did. He gets all the merit/credit.
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Work is not necessarily what you handle with your hands or any other part of the body, it is what comes out of our own will/ voluntary- this should be clear too.
What is now coming out is that salvation depends on what we do with our own choices/will. According to OSAS, we choose God and have to voluntarily believe in the works of Christ.
What is now coming out is that salvation depends on what we do with our own choices/will. According to OSAS, we choose God and have to voluntarily believe in the works of Christ.