Reconciling with self defense and loving those not easy to love...

[CharliRenee]

We all know God is all about our hearts, He died for them. We are all so blessed.

Let me first put some verses forward…

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Matthew 5:38‭-‬39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘an eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth .’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."


Proverbs 10:12. "Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses."

Proverbs 15:1. "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."

Matthew 5:44-45. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

Luke 6:27-29. "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold"

Romans 14:13. " Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."

Ephesians 4:15. "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"

1 Peter 3:9. "Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called so that you may obtain a blessing."

Deuteronomy 3:22 - Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.

Exodus 14:14
The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

Time and time again, we see how hard it seems at times to love those who seem to take joy in thinking the worst of others. We see all kinds of bitterness and unkindness, offline and online. We know we are to rebuke, but with patience and love.

I am not scolding or lecturing, lol. How about I get to my point? On this we all agree, right? Haha.

Self defense is something that I have trouble reconciling with. I agree 100% in defending and protecting others, but the scripture seems to be clear on self defense. I think it shows strength to walk away, without taking offense. Completely, not with bitterness or wound, becoming a victim to the response. Folks will always judge us, assume the worst of us, regardless, if we are gentle and kind or if we demonstrate more grit. There is a time and place for both, but I think that it takes more strength to remain in His peace, in His mercy, remaining humble, ready to receive His will for our thoughts and hearts.

If someone comes into my home, I reckon my instincts would have me terrified but I would probably try and defend self, with all I have. I do not think my Lord would disapprove. And if I see another on the receiving end of harm, for me to just remain passive demonstrates weakness of character. This is my opinion. I will defend my loves with all I have.

However, if I receive assault verbally, if I am thought of poorly, and am rebuked or persecuted without kindness or patience. To me, it seems God's clear, that I am not suppose to try and change their minds, and def not try harder to win them over, but to just pray, be still in spirit, and walk away, loving them in my heart, regardless the return. I think that takes strength...His strength. I do not always demonstrate this, but I believe it is what we are called to.

I know that I am using too many words, but I just want to be clear. How do you reconcile your thoughts on self defense and our call to love others that are not easy to love?

 

[CharliRenee]

After re-reading, I think it comes across like I am looking for validation, ugh, like I was trying to gain sympathies, rather than insights on reconciling between self defense and loving others not easy to love. Ugh ugh. I really need to be more succinct...

No validation or sympathies needed, hahaha!!!

 

[CharliRenee]

I wrestle with this because I want to teach my grandchildren the proper way to handle bullies or just confrontation.

 

[Cariad]

We all know God is all about our hearts, He died for them. We are all so blessed.

Let me first put some verses forward…

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Matthew 5:38‭-‬39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘an eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth .’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."


Proverbs 10:12. "Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses."

Proverbs 15:1. "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."

Matthew 5:44-45. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

Luke 6:27-29. "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold"

Romans 14:13. " Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."

Ephesians 4:15. "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"

1 Peter 3:9. "Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called so that you may obtain a blessing."

Deuteronomy 3:22 - Ye shall not fear them: for the LORD your God he shall fight for you.

Exodus 14:14
The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

Time and time again, we see how hard it seems at times to love those who seem to take joy in thinking the worst of others. We see all kinds of bitterness and unkindness, offline and online. We know we are to rebuke, but with patience and love.

I am not scolding or lecturing, lol. How about I get to my point? On this we all agree, right? Haha.

Self defense is something that I have trouble reconciling with. I agree 100% in defending and protecting others, but the scripture seems to be clear on self defense. I think it shows strength to walk away, without taking offense. Completely, not with bitterness or wound, becoming a victim to the response. Folks will always judge us, assume the worst of us, regardless, if we are gentle and kind or if we demonstrate more grit. There is a time and place for both, but I think that it takes more strength to remain in His peace, in His mercy, remaining humble, ready to receive His will for our thoughts and hearts.

If someone comes into my home, I reckon my instincts would have me terrified but I would probably try and defend self, with all I have. I do not think my Lord would disapprove. And if I see another on the receiving end of harm, for me to just remain passive demonstrates weakness of character. This is my opinion. I will defend my loves with all I have.

However, if I receive assault verbally, if I am thought of poorly, and am rebuked or persecuted without kindness or patience. To me, it seems God's clear, that I am not suppose to try and change their minds, and def not try harder to win them over, but to just pray, be still in spirit, and walk away, loving them in my heart, regardless the return. I think that takes strength...His strength. I do not always demonstrate this, but I believe it is what we are called to.

I know that I am using too many words, but I just want to be clear. How do you reconcile your thoughts on self defense and our call to love others that are not easy to love?

I believe this is something each of us have to come to terms with individually. I am ex-military and ex-law enforcement, I also teach combatives/self-defense to others so I have a different view from others who might respond.

First I would like to say that defending one self doesn't necessarily mean you hate the person that is attacking you. I believe defense is a natural reaction to a threat. Ever have anyone startle you or make a movement toward you and you react with your arms up?

One thing each of us has to look at is are we trusting ourselves more than we are trusting God? Do we rely on our own ability to protect our family or do we rely upon God to do this? David had skill with a sling and staff, yet he put God first and had faith God would have the victory over Goliath.

One thing I teach before any type of self-defense is verbal de-escalation and run if at all possible. If a person can't de-escalate a situation they have no business trying to learn self-defense or carry a weapon for self protection. The reason I say this is because they will resort to the attack every time.

Another thing I teach is self awareness before self-defense. We as Christians/humans need to be aware of where we are and where we are going to be. Stay out of the bad areas and stay at home after a certain time. Remember, God will protect us but we have a free will to do something out of Gods will.

Now as a Christian we can be persecuted for our faith. Is someone attacking us out of the blue a form of persecution? I don't believe it is and this is why I believe we can defend ourselves and others. Is it God's will to have us walk away from a mugging, where we knew we could help? Sometimes just a loud shout could make someone leave the scene. Bad guys don't like attention lol. But, if we have the ability to step in when the shout doesn't work then we should protect that person. And as with David, we put our trust in God and He has the victory over that evil.

This all really comes down to our motivations when it comes to defending ourselves, loved ones or people we don't know. Are we doing this because we want to hurt someone or are we doing this because we are showing love toward the people we intend to protect. One thing I do pray for is God protects me and others without using violence, but I also pray that God uses me if this is needed to protect someone who is being brutalized by others. I don't think I could really live with myself if I turned the other cheek as someone was getting attacked.

God bless

 

[CharliRenee]

I believe this is something each of us have to come to terms with individually. I am ex-military and ex-law enforcement, I also teach combatives/self-defense to others so I have a different view from others who might respond.

First I would like to say that defending one self doesn't necessarily mean you hate the person that is attacking you. I believe defense is a natural reaction to a threat. Ever have anyone startle you or make a movement toward you and you react with your arms up?

One thing each of us has to look at is are we trusting ourselves more than we are trusting God? Do we rely on our own ability to protect our family or do we rely upon God to do this? David had skill with a sling and staff, yet he put God first and had faith God would have the victory over Goliath.

One thing I teach before any type of self-defense is verbal de-escalation and run if at all possible. If a person can't de-escalate a situation they have no business trying to learn self-defense or carry a weapon for self protection. The reason I say this is because they will resort to the attack every time.

Another thing I teach is self awareness before self-defense. We as Christians/humans need to be aware of where we are and where we are going to be. Stay out of the bad areas and stay at home after a certain time. Remember, God will protect us but we have a free will to do something out of Gods will.

Now as a Christian we can be persecuted for our faith. Is someone attacking us out of the blue a form of persecution? I don't believe it is and this is why I believe we can defend ourselves and others. Is it God's will to have us walk away from a mugging, where we knew we could help? Sometimes just a loud shout could make someone leave the scene. Bad guys don't like attention lol. But, if we have the ability to step in when the shout doesn't work then we should protect that person. And as with David, we put our trust in God and He has the victory over that evil.



This all really comes down to our motivations when it comes to defending ourselves, loved ones or people we don't know. Are we doing this because we want to hurt someone or are we doing this because we are showing love toward the people we intend to protect. One thing I do pray for is God protects me and others without using violence, but I also pray that God uses me if this is needed to protect someone who is being brutalized by others. I don't think I could really live with myself if I turned the other cheek as someone was getting attacked.

God bless

I definitely 100% agree on defending others. Yes, it seems honorable and wise, not to mention, pragmatic and Godly.

I can see what you are saying about using wisdom, and it comes down to a heart matter, in both self defense and defending self.

God Bless you for helping and teaching others.

Yes Yes Yes@ this...

One thing I teach before any type of self-defense is verbal de-escalation and run if at all possible. If a person can't de-escalate a situation they have no business trying to learn self-defense or carry a weapon for self protection. The reason I say this is because they will resort to the attack every time.

 

[Jimbone]

The way I see it really is that our example was Jesus. He upheld the Fathers will even to the destruction of the flesh, as have countless believers since then, in His name and by His power. I think when it comes to people attacking us because of, or on behalf of the gospel then we should follow Jesus example and trust Him in that time, but there is a HUGE difference in that, and someone just randomly trying to fight or attack me for what ever reason. I'm not going to just get beat for no reason without trying to stop it, I like my face and body just how they are now. These things are very different, but also in the same category to me, someone trying to attack me, but when it comes to somebody trying to attack the people I love such as family and friends, you can bet the farm this Spirit filled follower of our Lord Jesus, will go to full force, with everything in me, calling upon His help and strength to guide me until the threat is stopped, or I take my last breath. These are all very different things and I don't feel can all be lumped into the same category.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I really need to be more succinct...

You might need to hire an editor who would limit you to just 50 words (perhaps 100 if generous).

As to the topic, we need to sort out our thinking.

1. Hatred is the opposite of love, so we must not hate those who attack us (or anyone else, even though they have brought harm to us). Christ forgave His enemies and we are expected to do the same.

2. But hatred of sin and evil and false teachings is a requirement of Christ (see Rev 2-3).

3. We are even to *hate* our family when it comes to a choice between Christ and family. Obviously it does not mean actual hatred, but a willingness to leave family behind in order to obey God and Christ.

4. We do not have to hate the ones who try to harm us or our loved ones. But we can (and should) try to defend ourselves when necessary. Otherwise the Lord would not have told the apostles to purchase swords. In those days travel was hazardous and that may have been the reason.

5. Also, the Lord sent Joseph, Mary, and the child Jesus to Egypt in order to protect Him and them. Then we have an incident where Christ's enemies sought to kill Him, but He removed Himself from that situation. So whenever possible, we should move ourselves out of harm's way, rather than presumptuously place ourselves in that situation.

6. We are also told to do good to them that hate us. That means following the example of the Samaritan, who was hated by Jews, but did everything possible to help a Jew in need of help. These instructions of Christ must be applied to personal relationships.

 

[CharliRenee]

You might need to hire an editor who would limit you to just 50 words (perhaps 100 if generous).

As to the topic, we need to sort out our thinking.

1. Hatred is the opposite of love, so we must not hate those who attack us (or anyone else, even though they have brought harm to us). Christ forgave His enemies and we are expected to do the same.

2. But hatred of sin and evil and false teachings is a requirement of Christ (see Rev 2-3).

3. We are even to *hate* our family when it comes to a choice between Christ and family. Obviously it does not mean actual hatred, but a willingness to leave family behind in order to obey God and Christ.

4. We do not have to hate the ones who try to harm us or our loved ones. But we can (and should) try to defend ourselves when necessary. Otherwise the Lord would not have told the apostles to purchase swords. In those days travel was hazardous and that may have been the reason.

5. Also, the Lord sent Joseph, Mary, and the child Jesus to Egypt in order to protect Him and them. Then we have an incident where Christ's enemies sought to kill Him, but He removed Himself from that situation. So whenever possible, we should move ourselves out of harm's way, rather than presumptuously place ourselves in that situation.

6. We are also told to do good to them that hate us. That means following the example of the Samaritan, who was hated by Jews, but did everything possible to help a Jew in need of help. These instructions of Christ must be applied to personal relationships.

Helpful thank you.

You might need to hire an editor who would limit you to just 50 words (perhaps 100 if generous). < that made me laugh. Hahaha you know any looking for low wages, lol?

 

[CharliRenee]

The way I see it really is that our example was Jesus. He upheld the Fathers will even to the destruction of the flesh, as have countless believers since then, in His name and by His power. I think when it comes to people attacking us because of, or on behalf of the gospel then we should follow Jesus example and trust Him in that time, but there is a HUGE difference in that, and someone just randomly trying to fight or attack me for what ever reason.. These things are very different, but also in the same category to me, someone trying to attack me, but when it comes to somebody trying to attack the people I love such as family and friends, you can bet the farm this Spirit filled follower of our Lord Jesus, will go to full force, with everything in me, calling upon His help and strength to guide me until the threat is stopped, or I take my last breath. These are all very different things and I don't feel can all be lumped into the same category.

I agree self defense versus defending others very diff, and physical confrontation is very diff from verbal. I put them all in to try and make it clear what I was and wasn't discussing.

Often when we discuss self defense, it is often related to physical self defense or defending others, both of which I was not addressing specifically.

I was looking to address verbal confrontations like on a school playground, or in our day to day lives, online and off.

Haha and me too@ I'm not going to just get beat for no reason without trying to stop it, I like my face and body just how they are now.

I suppose my greatest takeaway from your response is this...

The way I see it really is that our example was Jesus. I find that He is all we ever need to lean into.

Thanks Jimbone...

 

[Jimbone]

LOL, I thought your post was friendly, but it's always strange to me leaving hearts, maybe it should be a fist-bump icon or something. Just playing, mostly, but it is still strange leaving hearts for anyone but my wife, especially a guy , even though I can make myself grow up a bit and just let it mean what it says it does and move on. I just thought it would be funny to mention.

 

[CharliRenee]

LOL, I thought your post was friendly, but it's always strange to me leaving hearts, maybe it should be a fist-bump icon or something. Just playing, mostly, but it is still strange leaving hearts for anyone but my wife, especially a guy , even though I can make myself grow up a bit and just let it mean what it says it does and move on. I just thought it would be funny to mention.

I respect that line of thinking. A loyal spouse, man or woman, shows so much integrity. I have nothing but respect for that line of behavior.

I too have given it when a comment has touched my heart or when I love, lol, what was said. I have wondered if sometimes it is perceived as crossing the line. You know, like should I never give a heart to a brother, lol. So I understand what you are saying. I know I do not, and have not ever, given it with romantic love in mind.

You know, I have pondered that love word often. I think we all think of love between a man and his wife or between a parent and a child being the closest to agape, unconditional love that only He is capable of. However, we are called to love others, even our enemies, so to me, I do not jump to a conclusion that love is a romantic thing. But I have nothing but respect for making sure your lines are not skewed, if not for yourself, for others who might misunderstand. I have even more respect for ones desire to always consider their spouse. So I think you are circumspect, mindful, when choosing your words and emoticons.

Good discernment bro. I give you 2 👍👍😀

 

[Magenta]

I was looking to address verbal confrontations like on a school playground, or in our day to day lives, online and off.

My thinking went to this: bullies want power and respect, to be feared. They come from a place of ego, and trigger a desire to "prove something" in others, but the "I can stand up to you" stance is all wrong, because we are powerless over others, and a bully only wants to dominate. Children are especially vulnerable and powerless... in all cases of bullying, an adult needs to get involved. Directly. I feel so bad for the kids of today; when I was going to school, there was no where near the level of threats of violence students now have to deal with.

 

[CharliRenee]

My thinking went to this: bullies want power and respect, to be feared. They come from a place of ego, and trigger a desire to "prove something" in others, but the "I can stand up to you" stance is all wrong, because we are powerless over others, and a bully only wants to dominate. Children are especially vulnerable and powerless... in all cases of bullying, an adult needs to get involved. Directly. I feel so bad for the kids of today; when I was going to school, there was no where near the level of threats of violence students now have to deal with.

True that, it is sad. I am thankful there is a hyper diligence toward awareness of bullies. I am sure the pendulum gets going in the other direction sometimes. My teacher friend says she is now facing having to define it, because one kid actually said, "that kid hit me back. He is a bully". Um...lol.

I guess you are right, though, adults need to keep their eyes and ears open and also be approachable so kids feel safe to share if they are on the receiving end of such bullying, especially if it is ongoing.

 

[Magenta]

True that, it is sad. I am thankful there is a hyper diligence toward awareness of bullies. I am sure the pendulum gets going in the other direction sometimes. My teacher friend says she is now facing having to define it, because one kid actually said, "that kid hit me back. He is a bully". Um...lol.

I guess you are right, though, adults need to keep their eyes and ears open and also be approachable so kids feel safe to share if they are on the receiving end of such bullying, especially if it is ongoing.

That "he hit me back, he is a bully" is manipulation. Bullies almost never take responsibility for their actions