Yes, I was reading about them yesterday. Some used it to humble themselves, using it as a reminder of their sinfulness so they won't become proud. Others preached that their self inflicted suffering cleansed them of sin, which is obviously a dangerous teaching, our sins are forgiven through the suffering of Christ on the Cross exclusively. Not that I am considering whipping myself now, but I am now encouraged to do smaller acts of self-denial. Please tell me what you think of them when you're done reading the third part of those books.
Victor,
I will be buying the third volume next week and beginning to read it.
However, I want to quote something from Kenneth Scott Latourette and his church history volume. You probably already know these things.
A paragraph in the book:
A movement which is said to have begun in Perugia in 1259 was that of the Flagellants. By a kind of mass contagion men, women, and children bewailed their sins and many of them marched through the streets, naked except for loin cloths, crying to God for mercy, and scourging themselves until the blood ran. Old enmities were forgiven and enemies were reconciled. Criminals confessed their misdeeds and when possible made restitution. Murderers asked pardon of the relatives of those whom they had killed. In some places priests headed the processions and led them to churches where the penitents prostrated themselves before the altars. The Flagellants spread beyond Italy to Germany and Bohemia, but subsided almost as quickly as they arose.
A second paragraph later in the book:
A quite different manifestation of the ground swell which prepared the way for the great tide of the sixteenth century was the Flagellants. We have met them earlier in the Middle Ages. Shortly before 1350 they appeared again, probably first in Italy and as a result of the Black Death and of earthquakes. The uncertainty of life and the imminence of death, always marked in the Middle Ages and accentuated by disasters before which man seemed helpless, drove men and women to penitance. The Flagellants were characterized not only by scourgings but also by folk-songs on Christian themes and by brotherhoods which combined penance with works of mercy and care of the sick. They often demanded that their members be reconciled to their enemies. By 1349 the Flagellants had spread, among other places to the Low Countries, Bohemia, Poland, Denmark, and England. North of the Alps they developed into a kind of organization, sometimes called the Brotherhood of the Cross, with a distinctive white habit and a severe discipline which involved a public scourging twice a day. At least some of these norther Flagellants cast doubt on the necessity of the sacraments. They also are said to have taught that their penances would work for the salvation of the world. In 1349 they were condemned by the Pope. Yet they broke out again from time to time in the fourteenth and fifteeth centuries. We hear of them in Provence in 1399 and in Germany as late as 1481.
Regarding self-denial, though, I am wondering if you understand what it means to be in Adam versus in Christ, and what it means to be born-again. I think understanding some of these concepts would help you understand what it means to deny the flesh. As I am reading about the behavior of the Flagellants, I believe I understand which Scriptures they are misunderstanding.
If you want to have a discussion on this, let me know. I will also recommend that you might read books on mortification of sin by Jon Owen. I suspect that is what you might need to understand. He is a Puritan author, so his language might be archaic, but I am guessing you can find his books online somewhere for free.
I will recommend a few more resources on church history, though, if you are interested..and they are free. One would be Ryan Reeves' channel on Youtube regarding church history. There are also two classes on church history on Sermonaudio by James White and Brian Borgman. Additionally, there are seminary classes on church history for free, if you have a smartphone.
As a synopsis, though, let me explain at an overview. Mankind was made in the image of God, to reflect the nature of God and to represent him on the earth. Adam and Eve rebelled against God, and this image has now been shattered or marred (I like to use the example of a mirror, so I will say shattered). All humans are now born "in Adam", by virtue of their physical descent from him (see Rom 5). They are characterized by his sinfulness, condemnation, the flesh, and death.
The believer experiences a new birth, through repentance and faith. He is now "in Christ" and not "in Adam". He is characterized by Jesus' righteousness, justification, the spirit, and life. This is what I mean by being in union with Christ. He is no longer separated from God because he has been joined to Jesus Christ, and experiences new life through him.
However, there is a remnant of the fallen nature which remains. This is called "the flesh" and it needs to be mortified, or put to death. Mortifying the flesh does not mean that you beat the physical body, but it means that you put to death, through the Spirit, the attributes of the fallen nature which remain as a remnant.
The incarnate Christ lives through the man who is in Christ, and cleanses him from the inside out.
Whipping your body doesn't do any good. Colossians 2 talks about this. It is a pagan belief that asceticism brings about spirituality. Instead, we need to continue looking to the Cross, and praying for the indwelling Christ to change us from within. The true believer will be transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit over time, but this does involve human effort.
One way to mortify the flesh can be seen on these forums. There is a tendency for our flesh to demand that we exact vengeance for every wrong done to us. For example, if someone treats me unjustly by using dishonest techniques to degrade me here, if I am mortifying the flesh, I will not react, or will react with kindness. If I am not mortifying the flesh, I will lash back at him and exact retribution in some way. I will be honest and tell you that I don't always seek to mortify the flesh, and I have reacted in anger when I have been wronged in the past. However, I am not a finished product.
If you want to talk to me about these things, I would be glad to talk to you. For the sake of speed, I have not referred to Scriptures, but I could refer to them.
In short, I think self-flagellation is an attempt to pay for our own sins, and that doesn't work. However, I believe Jesus expects us to mortify our flesh, and to humble ourselves, by refusing to react with malice toward others who wrong us. There are other acts of service that we do, which show us that we value the other person and obedience to God more than we do satisfying our bodily urges. However, whipping ourselves or other similar behavior doesn't accomplish that.
I think fasting can remind us of the need to mortify the flesh, but it is more of an outward reminder of something we need to do in other ways after the fast is over. We need to learn to let ourselves die, in terms of our fallen natures, and place others above us. But, to do that effectively, we need to learn that we have been joined to Christ, and that he bears our burdens and gives us the strength to do this, and continue to look at the Cross and not our miserable failures.
To get back to the broken mirror, in the believer, God is repairing the broken mirrors so that we reflect his image and glorify him. Salvation is about a restoration and a glorification of the state that mankind was at, prior to the Fall.
You may want to study the concepts of "union with Christ", the "Big Picture", "in Adam, in Christ", and what it means to be in the image of God. Realize that some cultic groups teach distortions of these doctrines, too, so watch out for that. Additionally, there are groups such as Pelagians that teach against the "in Adam, in Christ" understanding, but if you understand these things, Paul's writings and the overall storyline of the Bible will make fantastic sense. Additionally, there are some Christian teachers that distort these doctrines in a man-centered manner that does not glorify God.
I hope some of this make sense, and feel free to interact with me if you want. My email is
rob@unitedwithchrist.net if you want to use email.
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