What do you believe and why do you believe it?

[reneweddaybyday]

I would not use that example in future to demonstrate a Biblical inconsistency

Right. You now know there is no inconsistency concerning your example and you have been shown that Scripture is consistent.

Wonder how many other "inconsistencies" you hold which are as easily shown to be an error in understanding on your part …

so you won that particular argument.

I didn't "win" anything. It could be that you "won" because an error you held has been revealed to you and you now know truth concerning the issue.

There are numerous examples of other inconsistencies though
(e.g. Matthew 17 – The journey to Copernium took “6 days.”
Luke 9 – The journey took “about 8 days.”

There is no mention of a journey to Capernaum in Luke 9.

In Matthew 17, there is a reference to when they were come to Capernaum, but no mention of how many days it took them to get there.

How difficult is it for God to look after the accuracy of his book?)

Why do you blame God for what man does with the Word of God?

But I think there are too many to go through one by one, but thank you for your efforts with the Judas Death story.

You're welcome.

In terms of faith, I believe "faith" and "trust" have the same root word "Pistis".

Scripturally, trust is the Greek word elpizó.

Pistis is faith.

Agape is love.

Pistis is the foundation of elpizó.

Agape energizes pistis.

Faith, hope, love … love energizes faith … faith undergirds hope.

So my point still stands. How do you know you are trusting the correct ideology/conception of God?

Why do you believe I am not trusting "the correct ideology/conception of God"?

 

[TLC209]

my friends, I am here today to tell you about a great miracle the Lord has blessed me and has chosen me to see great wonders and miracles. I am a living witness with my own eyes I have seen the spirits of the lord and I stood before them and seen the sky open up and the church of god coming down .it's true god is real and his spirits are among us rejoice this is the good news.

You say spirits? Do you speak english as a second language? I just want to be clear.. Because there is only ONE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[TLC209]

Right. You now know there is no inconsistency concerning your example and you have been shown that Scripture is consistent.

Wonder how many other "inconsistencies" you hold which are as easily shown to be an error in understanding on your part …





I didn't "win" anything. It could be that you "won" because an error you held has been revealed to you and you now know truth concerning the issue.





There is no mention of a journey to Capernaum in Luke 9.

In Matthew 17, there is a reference to when they were come to Capernaum, but no mention of how many days it took them to get there.





Why do you blame God for what man does with the Word of God?





You're welcome.





Scripturally, trust is the Greek word elpizó.

Pistis is faith.

Agape is love.

Pistis is the foundation of elpizó.

Agape energizes pistis.

Faith, hope, love … love energizes faith … faith undergirds hope.





Why do you believe I am not trusting "the correct ideology/conception of God"?

He refuses to accept the truth. That is in no way intelligent or having understanding.

He only has a bias and wishes to deconstruct the faith of believers, hiding his intentions under the guise of "doubts". Its all false. Spectrox has already made up his mind long before he got here. He maintains that this isnt his first encounter with Christians to debate.

He further states he will not use the Judas arguement in the future, hence he further wishes to continue his path to dismantle the Faith of others. His goal, a carnal one. One that will leave his soul in a lake of fire.

Best wishes to Spectrox.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

He refuses to accept the truth. That is in no way intelligent or having understanding.

Spectrox accepted the truth regarding the records in Matt 27 and Acts 1.

He only has a bias and wishes to deconstruct the faith of believers, hiding his intentions under the guise of "doubts". Its all false. Spectrox has already made up his mind long before he got here. He maintains that this isnt his first encounter with Christians to debate.

In Post #124 I asked Spectrox if it was his intent to turn TO God and seek Him or if it was his intent to turn others FROM God. Never did receive an answer from him.

He further states he will not use the Judas arguement in the future, hence he further wishes to continue his path to dismantle the Faith of others. His goal, a carnal one. One that will leave his soul in a lake of fire.

It think it would be amazing if Spectrox went back to the atheist/ex-christian folks and showed them they were in error concerning their belief that there is contradiction in the record.

Sadly, he has already indicated that now he knows the truth, he'll just refrain from using that example to demonstrate inconsistency in Scripture.

Best wishes to Spectrox.

Yep.

 

[TLC209]

Spectrox accepted the truth regarding the records in Matt 27 andActs 1.

Thats not the truth I was referring to.

Jesus is the truth, the way and the life. Except through Jesus Christ no man can come to the Father and be recieved.

Spectrox refuses and rejects the truth. Looking for holes in the bible in order to justify his unbelief. Looking to discredit the Word of God, and Spectrox even judges God.

Spectrox is a disingenuous person who works under false pretenses and manipulation. By moral standards this is poor ethics and behavior. How can one with such low standards proclaim themselves, or excel themselves as having "good" morals?

No one likes a liar. Its quite clear most have caught on to this Spectrox con-artist. Preying on the feeble minded, looking for victims to squander and lead atray. Such behavior is far from being morally good.

Unfortunately for Spectrox he has yet to convince anyone of his scientifical nonsense and error filled knowledge. If he stood on such sound scientific based facts and made an educated claim on the "fallacy" of God, then why hasnt he convinced anyone other than himself?

Not sure if Spectrox has a paper he is writing, maybe a school project, but whatever this thread is supposed to be, it isnt genuine. He is gathering information, he is not trying to gain understanding.

Spectrox is deadlocked against God, refuses sound doctrine, and hides his true intentions. And whatever his anger is against God, might have something to do with his personal lifestyle habits. Slavery and Judas had nothing to do with God existing but rather trying to paint God as the villain in order to unite others in his fight against God.

Im inclined to believe Spectrox is a homesexual. It wouldnt surprise me in the least bit... the picture of the face hiding behind a painted mask. The person who was filled with self-loathing?

Maybe being gay and being told horrible things can do that to a person... And maybe he blames God for causing people to believe being gay is wrong. So God is his enemy. That sounds like the cause for why he is so against God and Christians. Self-loathing before, Past tense since his new atheist gay friends tell him different.

He wouldnt address this on this site because he knows the response he would get from everyone. And that would not allow him to engage with others and share his judgements against God, no one here would take him seriously. We would all label him sexually immoral. By which he contends he is MORAL.

When I look in the mirror, I am not filled with self-loathing any more. I have started to love myself and there are people (and a dog) in my life who love me! I feel a lot better and do not feel the emptiness I once struggled with.

 

[Spectrox]

You outta start a career in moving goalposts! Again, I ask, WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE HERE? If you are not interested in Truth, and just time and again change the rules for what YOU consider proof, I think there is another agenda going on. But surely you MUST know that no born again Child of God can ever be swayed into the religion of atheism. We HAVE the light of the world, Jesus Christ.

Most Jews don't believe in their Messiah today because it is exactly, Biblically predicted that they would be blinded IN PART for a set amount of time.

You want precise dates in Prophecy? Fine. But your heart is hardening more and more as you continue to reject the Truth you asked for.
Here is some of the incredible work Sir Robert Anderson did in identifying the exact day, and ONLY on that day, Jesus would allow Himself to be praised and declared the Messiah. His triumphal entry as the people laid down palm branches, where He said if the people didn't praise Him the VERY stones would cry out. Jesus said at all other occasions "My time has not yet come". ONLY on THIS day did He not only allow, but arranged for Him to be praised.

Sir Robert Anderson spent a lifetime studying God’s Word. He worked with the Royal Observatory in London and gathered his work into a book called The Coming Prince. In this monumental work he records all the historical and Biblical evidences that point to the precision of Daniel’s prophecy. Here are the details for Daniel’s Map of the Future. God gave him three numbers, they were 49 + 434 + 7 = 490 years.

You can check out all the exact details here:https://discoverthebook.org/palm-sunday-and-daniels-70th-week/

From Google: "Moving the goalposts (or shifting the goalposts) is a metaphor, derived from goal-based sports, that means to change the criterion (goal) of a process or competition while still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an intentional advantage or disadvantage."

Indicate exactly how I have changed the criteria for what constitutes a prediction or prophecy. You won't be able to do it.

My purpose here is to have a discussion with Christians to further my understanding of Christianity and to test my own beliefs on this issue. When I get time, I will look into the work of Sir Robert Anderson.

 

[Spectrox]

...and you are doing the same trip here with man rather than G-d.
Then you did not read/understand the ...Cambrian Explosion...which proves evolution is a ruse.
Species change is, no doubt, part of G-d's built in adaptation element, knowing man would change the environment. A common sense answer.

From Wikipedia
"The Cambrian explosion or Cambrian radiation was an event approximately 541 million years ago in the Cambrian period when most major animal phyla appeared in the fossil record. It lasted for about 13–25 million years and resulted in the divergence of most modern metazoan phyla. "

I'm not an expert in the above, so you're asking the wrong person. As far as my understanding goes, this was a relatively rapid period of evolution, although there have been other rapid periods referred to as punctuated equilibria.

What's your point?

Do you accept the science from the fossil record that says it occurred 541 million years ago - if so, how does that tally with the Genesis account?

Does it prove that a deity exists?

Does it prove that the Christian God did it?

 

[Spectrox]

Thats not the truth I was referring to.

Jesus is the truth, the way and the life. Except through Jesus Christ no man can come to the Father and be recieved.

Spectrox refuses and rejects the truth. Looking for holes in the bible in order to justify his unbelief. Looking to discredit the Word of God, and Spectrox even judges God.

Spectrox is a disingenuous person who works under false pretenses and manipulation. By moral standards this is poor ethics and behavior. How can one with such low standards proclaim themselves, or excel themselves as having "good" morals?

No one likes a liar. Its quite clear most have caught on to this Spectrox con-artist. Preying on the feeble minded, looking for victims to squander and lead atray. Such behavior is far from being morally good.

Unfortunately for Spectrox he has yet to convince anyone of his scientifical nonsense and error filled knowledge. If he stood on such sound scientific based facts and made an educated claim on the "fallacy" of God, then why hasnt he convinced anyone other than himself?

Not sure if Spectrox has a paper he is writing, maybe a school project, but whatever this thread is supposed to be, it isnt genuine. He is gathering information, he is not trying to gain understanding.

Spectrox is deadlocked against God, refuses sound doctrine, and hides his true intentions. And whatever his anger is against God, might have something to do with his personal lifestyle habits. Slavery and Judas had nothing to do with God existing but rather trying to paint God as the villain in order to unite others in his fight against God.

Im inclined to believe Spectrox is a homesexual. It wouldnt surprise me in the least bit... the picture of the face hiding behind a painted mask. The person who was filled with self-loathing?

Maybe being gay and being told horrible things can do that to a person... And maybe he blames God for causing people to believe being gay is wrong. So God is his enemy. That sounds like the cause for why he is so against God and Christians. Self-loathing before, Past tense since his new atheist gay friends tell him different.

He wouldnt address this on this site because he knows the response he would get from everyone. And that would not allow him to engage with others and share his judgements against God, no one here would take him seriously. We would all label him sexually immoral. By which he contends he is MORAL.

The above is a really good example of why I left Christianity. For the record I am heterosexual, not that that should really matter. I was right about TLC in my earlier post. When his arguments have hit a brick wall, he becomes profoundly nasty because he has nothing else to offer.

I think he should consider changing his username to TLCD (The Lowest Common Denominator).

I shall be ignoring his posts until he rediscovers his humanity.

Right, I'm off for a shower. I feel contaminated.

 

[Spectrox]

Hmmm -- seems you are using your starting point ("thinking entity" and "logic") to try to make my starting point look foolish?

Again, you may do that -- that is your prerogative . . . but it does not prove anything at all . . .

I, as I said before, reject your starting point as having no basis at all - thinking and logic did not suddenly appear out of nowhere as a "starting point"!

So now we have the "Something can't come from nothing" canard.

What do you really by "nothing" or "nowhere"?
All we have is examples of "something coming from something". We don't have any examples of "something coming from nothing" so how can we make any assessment of it?

 

[Spectrox]

Where is the peer-reviewed science that proves the Big Bang theory?
Where is the peer-reviewed human reasoning that proves all the intellectual theories which are your starting points?
(Here is a clue - you won't be able to find it: because in your own words you admit science is not conclusive proof of anything)

Please stop stealing my lines.

 

[Spectrox]

Spectrox is just messing with Christians. Leave him to his devices. He can't handle to truth.

Spectrox is just messing with Christians. Leave him to his devices. He can't handle to truth.

The best line in "A Few Good Men". I am the only atheist on this thread who is tackling challenges from over a dozen Christians, who allegedly have the Creator of the Universe on their side. All things considered, I think I'm doing ok because most of the arguments being presented in favour of your God belief are really, really poor.

 

[Spectrox]

Control..?...of what and by whom?

Control of the masses by religious leaders.

 

[Spectrox]

And the source of this criteria?

Not sure. It was in my notes from years ago. Probably a Rationalist site. I think the criteria are pretty sound. They limit the number of bogus claims considerably. Otherwise, I could say that yesterday I ordered a medium-rare steak in a restaurant and half an hour later it arrived in front of me - have I fulfilled prophecy?

 

[Spectrox]

Isaiah 53

Point 4 of my Criteria stated:

It must have been unknown at the time of writing.

Do you really believe that New Testament authors did not read Old Testament scriptures?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Control of the masses by religious leaders.

Religion meets a need, the need to explain our morality and love.
The leaders are just people who believe the religion and have progressed into leadership.

The marxists and atheists believe it is a planned manipulation, when in truth Christ dying on the cross
was His choice and what grew is the Kingdom of God.

 

[Spectrox]

Is it objective or subjective?.... while you state "objective" it is in fact subjective.

The opinions are subjective - do you know someone's emotional and physical pain better than them?

The assessment of the results is objective.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The opinions are subjective - do you know someone's emotional and physical pain better than them?

The assessment of the results is objective.

Lol. In philosophy they have proved nothing is objective, everything is based on assumptions.
Some assumptions are pragmatically better than others, but always assumptions are involved.

Popper showed all we can do is disprove things, because every description is an approximation of our
understanding of truth, which may be part of a bigger whole we do you yet understand.

Faith and conviction are personal, but their foundations are not. It is why we can discuss theology,
history, politics, based on our understanding of them and how things appeared to come about.

 

[Spectrox]

There is no mention of a journey to Capernaum in Luke 9.

In Matthew 17, there is a reference to when they were come to Capernaum, but no mention of how many days it took them to get there.

Here are the 2 quotes in full. Reads like a contradiction to me.

Luke 9:28-36 New International Version (NIV)
The Transfiguration

28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.

Matthew 17 New International Version (NIV)
The Transfiguration

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Why do you believe I am not trusting "the correct ideology/conception of God"?

That's a shifting of the burden of proof. I am not making a positive claim about what is the correct conception of God because I don't know. You, however, are making a positive claim.

 

[Spectrox]

Lol. In philosophy they have proved nothing is objective, everything is based on assumptions.
Some assumptions are pragmatically better than others, but always assumptions are involved.

Popper showed all we can do is disprove things, because every description is an approximation of our
understanding of truth, which may be part of a bigger whole we do you yet understand.

Faith and conviction are personal, but their foundations are not. It is why we can discuss theology,
history, politics, based on our understanding of them and how things appeared to come about.

I have already said repeatedly that my starting point for the standard is arbitrary/ has assumptions.
I like your comment about Popper. He is one of my favourite scientists. Falsifiability is a very clever concept.

 

[Spectrox]

Religion meets a need, the need to explain our morality and love.
The leaders are just people who believe the religion and have progressed into leadership.

The marxists and atheists believe it is a planned manipulation, when in truth Christ dying on the cross
was His choice and what grew is the Kingdom of God.

I don't believe that substitutional atonement constitutes justice. It's just unnecessarily bloodthirsty. If God wanted to forgive us, why not just say it? In fact, why didn't God write the Bible in the first person and take responsibility for every word - instead of others writing about Jesus in the third person? This makes Jesus seem more mysterious and powerful like Dr Watson writing in the first person about Sherlock Holmes in the third person.