Discernment in visions and dreams

[danja]

Hi Danja,

Have you had any clarity re your original question for discernment in dreams?

hi Ruby ,
I had to repent and ask forgiveness for some stuff and close some doors .I can still have visions and dreams from the enemy though but i think they are much less .I apply the blood of Jesus over them every time i nap or sleep at night .I am also taking classes on hearing the voice of God .

 

[stonesoffire]

Please clearly explain the distinction as you see it, and please give biblical evidence clearly supporting your position. No bafflegab, no dodging, just a plain and clear response.


That's not what the Scripture says. You're adding to the word of God... again.


Once we agree on what Acts 10 tells us, then we can discuss modern-day speaking in tongues.


The Bible says nothing of "metaphorical signs" regarding tongues.


Yawn. That's what you are doing because you reject plain Scripture.


Which is EXACTLY what happened to Cornelius.


I deny that tongues is prophecy because the Scripture distinguishes tongues from prophecy.


See my closing comment below...


This is no evidence to support your assertion.


Despite us discussing this topic for several months, you don't seem to have a freaking clue what I believe on this subject. I despise your ignorant mockery. You have no excuse.

Baffalgab-gibberish....wow, can’t wait to use this word!

 

[garee]

hi Ruby ,
I had to repent and ask forgiveness for some stuff and close some doors .I can still have visions and dreams from the enemy though but i think they are much less .I apply the blood of Jesus over them every time i nap or sleep at night .I am also taking classes on hearing the voice of God .

That interesting. What kind of a format to they use to learn how to hear the voice of God?

 

[garee]

I just stumbled in here looking for the topic but something struck me and I'd like some clarification if you would

What do you mean one thing cannot mean two distinct opposing things?

You mean tongues being prophecy to a believer and a sign to a non-believer? because I see opposing messages to them that believe not and them that do all over the NT. Like the pharisees interaction with Jesus or End times events and what the people in the world make of them etc.

Or is this argument predicated on whether or not tongues is prophetic? Sorry for jumping in randomly...it just seems somewhat out of place but I am also not very well versed in the topic.

I've heard "tongues" all my life growing up in Pentecostal churches but it has always confused me. It feels like the Lord but I'm not sure.

I've heard some people say it's other languages as per the initial outpouring and Peter's message but also private prayer language as well as prophetic words of encouragement and edification. So I get somewhat confused and have moved away from charismatic understandings, because it's hard to tell. I used to do it myself around 16-18 and then just stopped when I went to college. I didn't hear a whiff of it at the "christian" university I went to. Plenty of other things that I do appreciate but not tongues...so my personal experience and what the word says...I'm open to it, just that there seems to be a false version. I'm just not sure how he feels about it.

I'm on the fence about what prophecy is in general in the modern world. I've had things spoken over me...but thinking back I still don't get stuff like that, regardless of whether or not it seems to come true. Same thing with dreams. There are different sources of these things and so I treat some people with skepticism and some with due consideration.

Not sure, I just feel like mostly tongues is other languages, word of edification, and private prayer. Whereas prophecy is something different. Is it possible they could intersect at times in some people's minds? I suppose

Yes, tongues being prophecy is the word of God to a believer and a sign to a non-believer who does not have the faith needed to believe.

I think in the end the question is more. What does the bible say in respect to the phrase "sign gift"? Is it to confirm something outwardly?

I say the Bible does not us the two words (sign gift) working together .Spiritual gifts not seen, yes . We walk by faith the unseen. A good understanding how signs are used and how they can appose prophecy is helpful.

If you are speaking of tongues today which some call a "sign gift" there is no such thing .Tongues are prophetic because that's what prophecy, the word of God does, it prophesies declaring the will of God. If tongues is a sign gift it seems confusing because that what it does, it creates it a unknow wonderment like falling backward. .

True tongues, the word of God it sets direction as clear prophecy. Outward signs are for those who believe not, no faith that comes from hearing God. . Prophecy for those who do believe it provides the faith to hear God .

According to the law as to the sign1 Corinthians 14:22-23 again prophecy God's tongue our new tongue is for those who believe. The sign for unbelievers that have another source of faith that they call sign gift. Again "sign gift" two words not used together to represent one thing.

In every discussion I have had with those who seek after unknow wonderment they must ignore the foundation of the doctrine (Isaiah 28) it proves the sign is against them and does not support the idea of making a unknow sound or falling backward and that confirms a person is being filled with something.

The sign is simply God mocking unbelief in the heart of men using the Jew to represent all of mankind

 

[SolaSciptura]

Hello everyone.

I have a question concerning dreams and visions. Very often i have visions and dreams but I am new when it comes to discerning where they come from , God, evil or myself.
My question is , does anyone of you know how to discern dreams and visions .
For example today i had a vision of a shadow flying and then for many minutes when i was lying in my bed i felt a cooling air around my body . It was very weird but i had peace .
I want to hear from God but I don’t want to be deceived as i know evil can come as an angel of light.
I would appreciate your wisdom .
God bless you

Visions and dreams are not a part of God's plan now that the Bible is complete. They ceased when the Book of Revelation was completed. Please don't discard this reproof out of hand, hear me out and consider what God's word, our only true standard, has to say on the matter.

That all revelatory gifts have ceased is crucial to understand at this point, because Jesus warned that the end of the age would be marked by false prophets and lying signs and wonders.

The early church was different, it was overseen by principled men who literally walked with Jesus. Any dream or vision was subject to their knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures and their first-hand, personal knowledge of the Lord, Himself.

Visions and dreams were only available because the New Testament wasn't completely put to paper. And they were always connected to the Old Testament scriptures to help new believers (Jew and Gentile alike) to understand the New Covenant through the Old Testaments types and shadows of Christ. The early church leaders were well-versed in the Old Testament scriptures. Their foundation was firm. This is why Jesus used them to breath out the New Testament scriptures.

The ceasing of the revelatory gifts had to be, because of the subjectivity of experience. The scriptures are not subjective, but objective. Of course, they need to be rightly handled to be understood, but that's not impossible for one who loves the truth.

But since revelatory experiences are subjective and not objective, meaning you cannot really know if it's from God or the devil, Jesus made it wonderfully simple at the end now when we are currently being overwhelmed by false prophets, lying signs, and bogus wonders. Don't believe any of it!

Trust God's word, and understand that it is God's word that explains God's word. If you want to understand one part of scripture, keep reading. God will explain it elsewhere. Just like He did through this teaching about the revelatory gifts ceasing. I have no doubt God still works miracles and heals people, but if the ones who claim to be doing the miracles and healings are pushing the revelatory gifts you know they're not following Jesus. They are under a delusion because they don't love the truth (God's word is truth). They prefer subjective nonsense over objective truth:

 

[7seasrekeyed]

yup

I agree. the truest test of how people love the word is how they react

finally someone who will put the debate to rest

a dude on a youtube video with a worried expression quoting cherry picked verses to prove his own bias

how refreshing

I guess salvation is also over since that is also a spiritual gift

I always find it amusing that people who are cessationists cannot resist the actual office of a prophet by telling us that the gifts have ceased, while having no comprehension with regards to what a NT prophet is...mostly foretelling...from the word, so they get busy and do exactly that, but because of ignorance have no clue they are doing that

dude in the video should be worried for his false teaching and his face reflects that

there are far more scary videos in this forum than that silly clip if someone wants to be superstitious

youtube...the go to resource for cessationists everywhere

whatever

 

[garee]

Visions and dreams are not a part of God's plan now that the Bible is complete. They ceased when the Book of Revelation was completed. Please don't discard this reproof out of hand, hear me out and consider what God's word, our only true standard, has to say on the matter.

That all revelatory gifts have ceased is crucial to understand at this point, because Jesus warned that the end of the age would be marked by false prophets and lying signs and wonders.

The early church was different, it was overseen by principled men who literally walked with Jesus. Any dream or vision was subject to their knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures and their first-hand, personal knowledge of the Lord, Himself.

Visions and dreams were only available because the New Testament wasn't completely put to paper. And they were always connected to the Old Testament scriptures to help new believers (Jew and Gentile alike) to understand the New Covenant through the Old Testaments types and shadows of Christ. The early church leaders were well-versed in the Old Testament scriptures. Their foundation was firm. This is why Jesus used them to breath out the New Testament scriptures.

The ceasing of the revelatory gifts had to be, because of the subjectivity of experience. The scriptures are not subjective, but objective. Of course, they need to be rightly handled to be understood, but that's not impossible for one who loves the truth.

But since revelatory experiences are subjective and not objective, meaning you cannot really know if it's from God or the devil, Jesus made it wonderfully simple at the end now when we are currently being overwhelmed by false prophets, lying signs, and bogus wonders. Don't believe any of it!

Trust God's word, and understand that it is God's word that explains God's word. If you want to understand one part of scripture, keep reading. God will explain it elsewhere. Just like He did through this teaching about the revelatory gifts ceasing. I have no doubt God still works miracles and heals people, but if the ones who claim to be doing the miracles and healings are pushing the revelatory gifts you know they're not following Jesus. They are under a delusion because they don't love the truth (God's word is truth). They prefer subjective nonsense over objective truth:

Yes be careful on how we hear... I would agree God is no longer brining any new revelation after any manner to include tongues. .

A warning not to add or subtract from the whole sealed with seven seals till the end of time is left with a promised curse. That he would send a strong delusion to those so they would continue to believe the lie..of self edification after some unseen wonderment

But I would not say spiritual unseen gifts have ceased. When we declare existing prophecy by the Spirit of Christ it does not come from a outdated source of faith .It remains the constant. Getting the gospel out prophesying prophecy as a spiritual gift working in us will continue till the last day

Its with the idea of "sign gifts" that looks to make the warning in Revelation 22 without effect. No such thing a "sign gift" as that seen. The two words are not used together any where in the Bible to create something that is not there. a unknown tongue...

Sign gifts.. . . . the Christians real nemesis...and not no spiritual gifts prophesying.

This includes baptism with water. Signs are designed for those who rebel in unbelief (no faith) . Prophecy God's word for those who believe therefore receiving the end of their new faith from the very beginning.

When did the idea of sign gifts enter the church?

 

[shittim]

Here are some quotes from the early church Fathers where they are giving evidence of the gifts continuing after the time of the apostles, so apparently the gifts did not cease.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/popp/091212

 

[Absolutely]

Sola scriptola.
All there is is a book.
No Spirit
No gifts
No miracles
No Jesus

....just a book

 

[7seasrekeyed]

you forgot yutube videos

 

[Absolutely]

Ok,so when did the church die?
What year?
Is it documented ,like say, " we noticed a strange vacuum like something left,and we began robotically saying verses and attacking Cornelius for what we could see as babble"

Or did the contempt for the gifts precede the departure of the Holy Spirit????

 

[Absolutely]

Or was it just a slow boil over many hundreds of years?
".... To another,the gift of discernment..."

You can not make this stuff up

 

[shittim]

Constantine closing the pagan temples and using the former temples for church removed the practice of worship from the house churches where families would learn and grow together, then came the institution of the church, "if you want to get to heaven you need to go through us", twice in Catholic Catechism I have been told by priests, "you just do what we tell you to do and we will take care of the rest", which left out personal relationship that is required.

 

[Dino246]

Visions and dreams are not a part of God's plan now that the Bible is complete. They ceased when the Book of Revelation was completed. Please don't discard this reproof out of hand, hear me out and consider what God's word, our only true standard, has to say on the matter.

That all revelatory gifts have ceased is crucial to understand at this point, because Jesus warned that the end of the age would be marked by false prophets and lying signs and wonders.

The early church was different, it was overseen by principled men who literally walked with Jesus. Any dream or vision was subject to their knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures and their first-hand, personal knowledge of the Lord, Himself.

Visions and dreams were only available because the New Testament wasn't completely put to paper. And they were always connected to the Old Testament scriptures to help new believers (Jew and Gentile alike) to understand the New Covenant through the Old Testaments types and shadows of Christ. The early church leaders were well-versed in the Old Testament scriptures. Their foundation was firm. This is why Jesus used them to breath out the New Testament scriptures.

The ceasing of the revelatory gifts had to be, because of the subjectivity of experience. The scriptures are not subjective, but objective. Of course, they need to be rightly handled to be understood, but that's not impossible for one who loves the truth.

But since revelatory experiences are subjective and not objective, meaning you cannot really know if it's from God or the devil, Jesus made it wonderfully simple at the end now when we are currently being overwhelmed by false prophets, lying signs, and bogus wonders. Don't believe any of it!

Trust God's word, and understand that it is God's word that explains God's word. If you want to understand one part of scripture, keep reading. God will explain it elsewhere. Just like He did through this teaching about the revelatory gifts ceasing. I have no doubt God still works miracles and heals people, but if the ones who claim to be doing the miracles and healings are pushing the revelatory gifts you know they're not following Jesus. They are under a delusion because they don't love the truth (God's word is truth). They prefer subjective nonsense over objective truth:.

Your reasoning is circular and your conclusion is flawed.

Please read Loren Cunningham's book, Is That Really You, God wherein he relates the visions that God gave him toward the founding of Youth With A Mission.

 

[stonesoffire]

Visions and dreams are not a part of God's plan now that the Bible is complete. They ceased when the Book of Revelation was completed. Please don't discard this reproof out of hand, hear me out and consider what God's word, our only true standard, has to say on the matter.

That all revelatory gifts have ceased is crucial to understand at this point, because Jesus warned that the end of the age would be marked by false prophets and lying signs and wonders.

The early church was different, it was overseen by principled men who literally walked with Jesus. Any dream or vision was subject to their knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures and their first-hand, personal knowledge of the Lord, Himself.

Visions and dreams were only available because the New Testament wasn't completely put to paper. And they were always connected to the Old Testament scriptures to help new believers (Jew and Gentile alike) to understand the New Covenant through the Old Testaments types and shadows of Christ. The early church leaders were well-versed in the Old Testament scriptures. Their foundation was firm. This is why Jesus used them to breath out the New Testament scriptures.

The ceasing of the revelatory gifts had to be, because of the subjectivity of experience. The scriptures are not subjective, but objective. Of course, they need to be rightly handled to be understood, but that's not impossible for one who loves the truth.

But since revelatory experiences are subjective and not objective, meaning you cannot really know if it's from God or the devil, Jesus made it wonderfully simple at the end now when we are currently being overwhelmed by false prophets, lying signs, and bogus wonders. Don't believe any of it!

Trust God's word, and understand that it is God's word that explains God's word. If you want to understand one part of scripture, keep reading. God will explain it elsewhere. Just like He did through this teaching about the revelatory gifts ceasing. I have no doubt God still works miracles and heals people, but if the ones who claim to be doing the miracles and healings are pushing the revelatory gifts you know they're not following Jesus. They are under a delusion because they don't love the truth (God's word is truth). They prefer subjective nonsense over objective truth:

Well, aren’t you a little serious bafflegabber...lol

Totally wrong too. Though I hold the Word in high regard, it’s just words without Spirit and life.

Put that in your bafflegabbing pipe and take a whiff. Lol

So sorry. I just love that word!

 

[stonesoffire]

Sola scriptola.
All there is is a book.
No Spirit
No gifts
No miracles
No Jesus

....just a book

Oh, so sorry. I see now you were one ahead of me. Haha. I don’t know what’s wrong with me today. Everything is funny. Might have something to do with a thread I just left. Who knows but I like it!

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes be careful on how we hear... I would agree God is no longer brining any new revelation after any manner to include tongues. .

A warning not to add or subtract from the whole sealed with seven seals till the end of time is left with a promised curse. That he would send a strong delusion to those so they would continue to believe the lie..of self edification after some unseen wonderment

But I would not say spiritual unseen gifts have ceased. When we declare existing prophecy by the Spirit of Christ it does not come from a outdated source of faith .It remains the constant. Getting the gospel out prophesying prophecy as a spiritual gift working in us will continue till the last day

Its with the idea of "sign gifts" that looks to make the warning in Revelation 22 without effect. No such thing a "sign gift" as that seen. The two words are not used together any where in the Bible to create something that is not there. a unknown tongue...

Sign gifts.. . . . the Christians real nemesis...and not no spiritual gifts prophesying.

This includes baptism with water. Signs are designed for those who rebel in unbelief (no faith) . Prophecy God's word for those who believe therefore receiving the end of their new faith from the very beginning.

When did the idea of sign gifts enter the church?

The king of bafflegabbing!

 

[stonesoffire]

A cessationist is just one bitten by the spirit of unbelief. Ankle deep. Think Ezekiel.

Give me those waters to swim. ❤️

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well, aren’t you a little serious bafflegabber...lol

Totally wrong too. Though I hold the Word in high regard, it’s just words without Spirit and life.

Put that in your bafflegabbing pipe and take a whiff. Lol

So sorry. I just love that word!

impressed!

you have used the word bafflegabber twice. twice in one post!

take a bow

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I had to wait 21 seconds to post this

appreciate the effort