Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[FollowHisSteps]

Its impossible to discuss Christianity, starting with Rest in Christ, with someone who doesn't even understand the First Step that is taken.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Step One - Begin in the Spirit

Those who say what a delight the law is to them and how they love to work at it have NO UNDERSTANDING of the very first step of Christianity.

Familiar with the terms, farce, and mockery? That's what post #3860 is to Christianity.

What did the apostles themselves say to this very thing???

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

The response;

Acts 15:8-10
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

If the silliness in post 3860 was anywhere close to being correct, why didn't the apostles tell their recent converts the things SG has told us???

Why didn't they say that the 10 commandments are an absolute delight because of the Holy Spirits influence?
Why didn't they define it the way SG has attempted to?

They actually defined it the EXACT OPPOSITE of SG. So what is SG pushing here? And why is he diametrically opposed to the teachings of the apostles?

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


These are really easy questions and really easy concepts. There is no excuse for twisting scripture into trying to make everything about working at the law unless you just don't understand Christianity.

1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Dear all,

It is possible to talk in generalities and ignore the facts.
All the apostles were jews who followed everything Moses taught to the letter.
Jesus said this was the way of the Kingdom, to do all they were taught to do, but not in the hypocrisy
of the Pharisees who did not do as they taught.

After the cross, Jesus the atoning sacrifice changed everything.
The law is written on the believers hearts and minds, in is buried in their souls to the degree they are purified
and made Holy. In this Holiness, Gods Spirit dwells as the temple of God.

It is not the road of perfection, it is the road of transformation and refinement, love working through ones
heart changing everything it touches and building a mature, perfect saint in Christ.

In Christ the temple in Jerusalem is no more, along with the priests, the celebrations, the feasts, the courts,
the rulers but rather a walk in love with Jesus as we grow to perfection guided by the Holy Spirit.
If we cannot see the perfection of Gods law, we probably do not have it written on our hearts.

Resting in Christ has always been after we see God, from a pure heart knowing we are secure because of the
cross and the work He has done for us.

Paul always puts the goal, the refinement in the future, as something we are working towards, not yet fully
achieved. He even said this of himself. The Lord accepts His people, flawed, struggling, working things through
but pointing to Him, walking with Him, working it through and growing in Him. It is His presence and purity,
His cleansing and forgiveness that makes us acceptable, as long as we hold to the faith and the walk.

 

[lightbearer]

What did I say that wasn’t what scripture said?

For one
"One, recieving the knowledge of truth does not mean they were converted, it just means they were presented the truth and continued in their sin."

And then
"Also if you carefully read that whole passage, the context is the Jews rejecting Jesus and the word of truth that were about to be destroyed in AD 70."

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The only people who are blind are those who think they can obey the law
The law demands perfection you were shown this when you tried to say the law makes a thing for unintentional sin. Only to be shown that even unintentional sin requires blood sacrifice for forgiveness
It is one thing to desire righteous living. It is another to think righteous living comes from the law
You think you had a relationship with god BEFORE you were saved. While you were under the curse of the law. If you can not understand how impossible this is how can you expect to understand the law itself you and peter aka follow his steps are two parts of the same mold you think anyone who disagrees with you hates god. And think your experiences prove your right
He can count on the fact I refuse to acknowledge his crap anymore and your almost there you both refuse to answer questions. And when you get pushed you get angry and start attacking
You can not preach obedience when you are living in sin that just makes you hypocrites. We all just pray one day both of you see this fact
.

There is wisdom and ignorance expressed here.
The law declares what is sinful and what is righteous. And for sin it prescribes the remedy, repentance, sorrow and
faith in Gods forgiveness through the atoning sacrifice.

What EG's statement also shows is unbelief. He does not believe we are washed clean. He believes we are sinners always
falling short, and only by Jesus standing between us and God are we righteous. This is pointless, because God is only
interested in our walk and in what in Him we achieve, perfection. The when is less important, the dwelling and being is
everything, but very hard for us to perceive and know. Only through a pure heart will we begin to grasp it.

Knowing God takes time, takes changing, takes dwelling, takes a new creation, takes our lives.

"you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the
Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
1 Cor 6

22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having
our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having
our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10

15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation;
they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7

For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer
have felt guilty for their sins.
Heb 10

8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from
being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten
that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
2 Peter 1

I refuse to acknowledge his crap

These are unwise words, spoken from a broken heart. What we quote is the word of
God and the Lords ways. To have no fear and to dismiss everything declares ones own
heart state, because in everything there is truth, and one must distinguish carefully those
things of God and those of man and those of the enemy.

Jesus was tempted by the enemy, and He responded to the points, because this was His standing
before the Lord, the enemy was just trying to trap Him, which has never changed as the enemies
strategy. I feel for EG and others like him, because we are lost without the Lords light, and without
cleansing sight never arises. I am not here to win arguments, but to walk, share and learn in Him
our gracious loving Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I believe after Jesus die, some of the law still in effect in different way

For Example do not steal,

In Moses time do not steal follow by punishment, say steal cow, must pay back the cow

Do not steal is still the Will of God now, but new covenant not mention punishment, If we repent and ask the Lord forgiveness, we are forgiven.

I Remember muslim guy say, your Christian religion is encourage people to kill steal etc.

As long as you believe Jesus is God you are forgiven. Why don't you rob the bank.

I say If I repent and ask forgiveness I am forgiven, but how about If police take me to prison.

He Said: say to the police, the King of King forgive me. The police is under the authority of the King of King isn't he?

Yes, but the King of King not tell police to release me.

Greetings Jackson123,

I appreciate the eyes you see with!

The same penalties are still in place for stealing.

Steal Cow - Pay back cow and also give up one of your cows. "Let it be don unto you as you intended for others" A simple return to net zero would have held no fear of loss hence why not take a chance. So, take one, return two! And if it was a work animal such as for plowing, Take one - return 4 or 5! High loss potential.

God may forgive someone who repents, but part of repentance is restoring the one you stole from otherwise the theft remains a loss for the victim and God will not tolerate an unrestored victim as a genuine repentance! Part of that restoration was to put the same measure of loss upon the criminal! Interestingly, after the thief returned the cow and gave another cow too, there was a command not to call him their or look at him in any way like he did anything at all. He was to be restored to normal, no dispersion's, he has paid his crime! I'm sure you agree.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

you think anyone who disagrees with you hates god.

This has got to be such a sad statement.
The argument here is about our response to love and walking in Jesus's ways.

The reason some cannot openly discuss this subject, is because they would have to abandon their
own position. It is literally maintained because they only see things from a particular perspective
and open discussion would leave them stranded and not able to function, literally.

Can a man do a good deed, yet be a sinner? Yes.
Can a man love while still not being in communion with God? Yes.

An extreme version of faith answers these two questions with no.
A dark heart only sees darkness everywhere.
A heart without love sees only love in Christ breaking through the blackness dimly.

Experience determines meaning all the time. Words only have meaning because they relate to
things we understand in our lives. Without this everything is meaningless.

It does not break into some peoples thinking that others experience life very differently and could
literally be walking in love and joy with Christ, as such a thing is impossible, and only liars and the
deceived could even suggest such a thing.

People of light cannot be understood by those in darkness.

22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within
you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be
devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Matt 6

12 I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life
John 8

Praise the Lord for Jesus is the light, the key to open the door to life, Amen.

 

[Jackson123]

Greetings Jackson123,

I appreciate the eyes you see with!

The same penalties are still in place for stealing.

Steal Cow - Pay back cow and also give up one of your cows. "Let it be don unto you as you intended for others" A simple return to net zero would have held no fear of loss hence why not take a chance. So, take one, return two! And if it was a work animal such as for plowing, Take one - return 4 or 5! High loss potential.

God may forgive someone who repents, but part of repentance is restoring the one you stole from otherwise the theft remains a loss for the victim and God will not tolerate an unrestored victim as a genuine repentance! Part of that restoration was to put the same measure of loss upon the criminal! Interestingly, after the thief returned the cow and gave another cow too, there was a command not to call him their or look at him in any way like he did anything at all. He was to be restored to normal, no dispersion's, he has paid his crime! I'm sure you agree.

Yep like zacchaeous, he repent and tell Jesus to return what he steal.

But If we kill than It is a problem.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Two things to note here.

One, recieving the knowledge of truth does not mean they were converted, it just means they were presented the truth and continued in their sin.

Two, saved ARE NOT under the judgement and indignation of God

Also if you carefully read that whole passage, the context is the Jews rejecting Jesus and the word of truth that were about to be destroyed in AD 70.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

That verse comes from Isaiah I believe, and it's talking about AD 70.

Greetings KJV,

I see what you are saying regarding Hebrews 10:26.


But there is an action verb in there regarding "Knowledge of the Truth", and that is the word that precedes the phrase. That word is:

G2983
λαμβάνω
lambanō
Thayer Definition:
1) to take
1a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1a1) to take up a thing to be carried
1a2) to take upon one’s self
1b) to take in order to carry away
1b1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
1c) to take what is one’s own, to take to one’s self, to make one’s own
1c1) to claim, procure, for one’s self
1c1a) to associate with one’s self as companion, attendant
1c2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
1c3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
1c4) to take to one’s self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one’s self
1c5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
1c6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
1d) to take
1d1) to admit, receive
1d2) to receive what is offered
1d3) not to refuse or reject
1d4) to receive a person, give him access to one’s self
1d4a) to regard any one’s power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
1e) to take, to choose, select
1f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a prolonged form of a primary verb, which is use only as an alternate in certain tenses
Citing in TDNT: 4:5, 495
Total KJV Occurrences: 261

While having a knowledge of and looking it over and considering it, like the "builder that, considers the cost" is one thing, the point of verse 26 is to speak of the one who did all that then laid hold, appropriated, received, etc that Knowledge and hence entered into contract with it.

SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

Dear all,

It is possible to talk in generalities and ignore the facts.
All the apostles were jews who followed everything Moses taught to the letter.
Jesus said this was the way of the Kingdom, to do all they were taught to do, but not in the hypocrisy
of the Pharisees who did not do as they taught.

After the cross, Jesus the atoning sacrifice changed everything.
The law is written on the believers hearts and minds, in is buried in their souls to the degree they are purified
and made Holy. In this Holiness, Gods Spirit dwells as the temple of God.

It is not the road of perfection, it is the road of transformation and refinement, love working through ones
heart changing everything it touches and building a mature, perfect saint in Christ.

In Christ the temple in Jerusalem is no more, along with the priests, the celebrations, the feasts, the courts,
the rulers but rather a walk in love with Jesus as we grow to perfection guided by the Holy Spirit.
If we cannot see the perfection of Gods law, we probably do not have it written on our hearts.

Resting in Christ has always been after we see God, from a pure heart knowing we are secure because of the
cross and the work He has done for us.

Paul always puts the goal, the refinement in the future, as something we are working towards, not yet fully
achieved. He even said this of himself. The Lord accepts His people, flawed, struggling, working things through
but pointing to Him, walking with Him, working it through and growing in Him. It is His presence and purity,
His cleansing and forgiveness that makes us acceptable, as long as we hold to the faith and the walk.

Some beautiful thoughts in here brother!

There is a "rest" that is impossible to convey to those who have not entered in and undeniable to those who have. Blessed assurance, Joy, etc. For me, I think when God through His Holy Spirit finally set me on the course of not just obedience but saw that His Torah/teachings were literally mine, mine to the point that nothing else would or could ever dislodge them from my heart and as my singular desire! Any man who commits to obedience is met with such an new and blessed revelation of Jesus and The Heavenly Father that the sheer Joy of that presence is inestimable and eternal!

No matter how many Shibboleths these hardened, joyless, lawless souls throw at us, this Joy is ours! And isn't it amazing too, how once a man is sealed as I described above there is no fear, no fear of turning back, no fear of other men, or doubt! Yet those who argue against the gift, deny it, why? Because they cannot comprehend it!

The danger of maintaining a course of Hostility towards obedience to God is treacherous!

Rom 1:18-27 KJV For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

There may be some of our Shibbolethers who have already surpassed the lists given here and are bitterly looking for company.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The only people who are blind are those who think they can obey the law

The law demands perfection you were shown this when you tried to say the law makes a thing for unintentional sin. Only to be shown that even unintentional sin requires blood sacrifice for forgiveness

It is one thing to desire righteous living. It is another to think righteous living comes from the law

You think you had a relationship with god BEFORE you were saved. While you were under the curse of the law. If you can not understand how impossible this is how can you expect to understand the law itself you and peter aka follow his steps are two parts of the same mold you think anyone who disagrees with you hates god. And think your experiences prove your right

He can count on the fact I refuse to acknowledge his crap anymore and your almost there you both refuse to answer questions. And when you get pushed you get angry and start attacking

You can not preach obedience when you are living in sin that just makes you hypocrites. We all just pray one day both of you see this fact
.

I am sad. Aspirations, to live in Gods ways, to know His paths, to seek His wisdom, to believe in His
promises, to share His words, to love His son, to believe in the cross, to do good works, to encourage
others, to know His victory, to receive life and love that transforms ones life, ones family, ones church,
ones friends and yet this is "crap", someone is living in "sin" undefined, and this is hypocrisy, is truly
lost.

47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."
John 1

10 A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you
John 13

3 Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Eph 5

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5

The question is, truly is, how does God regard His people as Holy, Pure and blameless?
The answer is because he looks at what we do, our love and actions, our words and blessing.

The internal conflicts, the passions that flow, are part of our transformation into His likeness,
the resolving of hurts, pain, defence, fear, revenge, difficulty. It is here we need His peace and
love, faith in action, to know He reigns, in Praise and worship, Amen.
It is here we do not still enough, and dwell at the foot of the cross, knowing His grace and love
overflowing us, cleansing and purifying our hearts. God bless you.

And it is here we condemn ourselves and let the enemy take away the knowledge God has forgiven
us and we are at peace. It takes faith and to confess He is Lord, and to sing, and know this eternal
rest, the essence of who we are in Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its impossible to discuss Christianity, starting with Rest in Christ, with someone who doesn't even understand the First Step that is taken.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Step One - Begin in the Spirit

Those who say what a delight the law is to them and how they love to work at it have NO UNDERSTANDING of the very first step of Christianity.

Familiar with the terms, farce, and mockery? That's what post #3860 is to Christianity.

What did the apostles themselves say to this very thing???

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

The response;

Acts 15:8-10
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

If the silliness in post 3860 was anywhere close to being correct, why didn't the apostles tell their recent converts the things SG has told us???

Why didn't they say that the 10 commandments are an absolute delight because of the Holy Spirits influence?
Why didn't they define it the way SG has attempted to?

They actually defined it the EXACT OPPOSITE of SG. So what is SG pushing here? And why is he diametrically opposed to the teachings of the apostles?

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


These are really easy questions and really easy concepts. There is no excuse for twisting scripture into trying to make everything about working at the law unless you just don't understand Christianity.

1 Timothy 1:5-7
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Remember bro. He thinks he had a relationship with god and loved him before he was supposedly saved

So as you said. The first step is unknown to him

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Some beautiful thoughts in here brother!

There is a "rest" that is impossible to convey to those who have not entered in and undeniable to those who have. Blessed assurance, Joy, etc. For me, I think when God through His Holy Spirit finally set me on the course of not just obedience but saw that His Torah/teachings were literally mine, mine to the point that nothing else would or could ever dislodge them from my heart and as my singular desire! Any man who commits to obedience is met with such an new and blessed revelation of Jesus and The Heavenly Father that the sheer Joy of that presence is inestimable and eternal!

No matter how many Shibboleths these hardened, joyless, lawless souls throw at us, this Joy is ours! And isn't it amazing too, how once a man is sealed as I described above there is no fear, no fear of turning back, no fear of other men, or doubt! Yet those who argue against the gift, deny it, why? Because they cannot comprehend it!

The danger of maintaining a course of Hostility towards obedience to God is treacherous!

Rom 1:18-27 KJV For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

There may be some of our Shibbolethers who have already surpassed the lists given here and are bitterly looking for company.

The term "Shibbolethers" is new to me. Thank you for the encouragement.
My approach to all I meet is to breath in their enthusiasm for what is their passion.
The Lord encourages us all to have good righteous passions. And in this sharing we meet one
another, and the Lord can guide us further on and deeper into His will and things.

Today on writing about the darkness in peoples hearts, it clicked.
EG talked about experience is not more important than Gods word etc. which is very true.
But experience and our sight determines what we see in Gods word. And they see so darkly.

I read today about a man who pretended to love others, while trying to trick them out of their
money. The idea of faking love for personal gain and the inability of others to detect this, is
so sad. Yet in Christ we are called to give love, whether understood or not, because love is
Gods heart. So brother, thank you and may I encourage you more in Him who is our very
life blood, Amen.

 

[SimpleGardner]

This has got to be such a sad statement.
The argument here is about our response to love and walking in Jesus's ways.

The reason some cannot openly discuss this subject, is because they would have to abandon their
own position. It is literally maintained because they only see things from a particular perspective
and open discussion would leave them stranded and not able to function, literally.

Can a man do a good deed, yet be a sinner? Yes.
Can a man love while still not being in communion with God? Yes.

An extreme version of faith answers these two questions with no.
A dark heart only sees darkness everywhere.
A heart without love sees only love in Christ breaking through the blackness dimly.

Experience determines meaning all the time. Words only have meaning because they relate to
things we understand in our lives. Without this everything is meaningless.

It does not break into some peoples thinking that others experience life very differently and could
literally be walking in love and joy with Christ, as such a thing is impossible, and only liars and the
deceived could even suggest such a thing.

People of light cannot be understood by those in darkness.

22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within
you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be
devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
Matt 6

12 I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life
John 8

Praise the Lord for Jesus is the light, the key to open the door to life, Amen.

Declare the truth Brother FHS!

The equation is basic; In the presence of The Lord there is Joy Forevermore! Know and Keep His commandments is the only route to fellowship/presence with Yahshua and the Heavenly Father!

So if you claim to know him but say you are "Freed from the Law" you Lie!

1Jn 1:6 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Remember bro. He thinks he had a relationship with god and loved him before he was supposedly saved
So as you said. The first step is unknown to him

In Christ, do we actually know when we first came to faith?
Is coming to faith a blowing on the coals of our hearts, which were forever present from the beginning
of time?

I do not know if my many encounters in love and spirituality define a beginning or just another step.
EG's comment illustrates the mind of man trying to understand the ways of God working in their hearts.

Cornelius ( Acts 10 ) did not know Jesus, yet God sent an angel to speak with him.
So in a real sense he knew God, yet he was not born again.

Leaning on ones own understanding is dangerous, and to use this as condemnation of the authenticity
of someones position is actually terrible. One can easily end up opposing the very work of God.

 

[SimpleGardner]

In Christ, do we actually know when we first came to faith?
Is coming to faith a blowing on the coals of our hearts, which were forever present from the beginning
of time?

I do not know if my many encounters in love and spirituality define a beginning or just another step.
EG's comment illustrates the mind of man trying to understand the ways of God working in their hearts.

Cornelius ( Acts 10 ) did not know Jesus, yet God sent an angel to speak with him.
So in a real sense he knew God, yet he was not born again.

Leaning on ones own understanding is dangerous, and to use this as condemnation of the authenticity
of someones position is actually terrible. One can easily end up opposing the very work of God.

Attributes of being "freed from the Law".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Declare the truth Brother FHS!

The equation is basic; In the presence of The Lord there is Joy Forevermore! Know and Keep His commandments is the only route to fellowship/presence with Yahshua and the Heavenly Father!

So if you claim to know him but say you are "Freed from the Law" you Lie!

1Jn 1:6 KJV If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

If you claim you know him and yet say your NOT freed from the law.

You do not know him at all.. At best, you keep commands according to your own standard. Paul makes this quite clear.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Attributes of being "freed from the Law".

I do like this sentiment, but we are freed from the law, by fulfilling it in love.
Freed from the law you are meaning, is when all reference points are removed, and the concept of having
reference points and fulfilling them is seen as self righteousness, pomposity, self justification, hypocrisy,
lowering the standards of the law ie diluting it.

And the law Paul is talking about is the Mosaic law that demanded we be Jews to please God.

I repeat this to be clear to readers what is being implied here, because many would interpret the words
differently unless explained, which is so miss-leading when put forward by some.

Often statements are made by some, but in reality they mean something different than how I take it to mean.
I have often been encouraged that so and so, has come round, only to discover they meant it completely differently.

God bless you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Attributes of being "freed from the Law".

Attributed about being freed from the law, according to scripture

1. Entered Gods rest
2. Not have to live in fear
3. Able to come to God openly, to confess and get help for your sin
4. Since no longer under law. Free to serve in love, not in the letter
5. Your faith will grow. Because it is based on GODS faithfulness, not on your ability
6. Able to reach maturity, and work out yoru salvation, Because nothing can go against you
7. Able. Like paul. To consider tribulation and pain and suffering a momentary light affliction, because you know this life is short. And eternity is forever. Since eternity is assured, You can openly and humbly suffer for God by serving him and others.
8, TRULY able to obey Gods commands, Because your TRUE LOVE for god.. which is not possible UNTIL he first loved you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Attributed about being freed from the law, according to scripture

1. Entered Gods rest
2. Not have to live in fear
3. Able to come to God openly, to confess and get help for your sin
4. Since no longer under law. Free to serve in love, not in the letter
5. Your faith will grow. Because it is based on GODS faithfulness, not on your ability
6. Able to reach maturity, and work out yoru salvation, Because nothing can go against you
7. Able. Like paul. To consider tribulation and pain and suffering a momentary light affliction, because you know this life is short. And eternity is forever. Since eternity is assured, You can openly and humbly suffer for God by serving him and others.
8, TRULY able to obey Gods commands, Because your TRUE LOVE for god.. which is not possible UNTIL he first loved you.

TRULY able to obey Gods commands, Because your TRUE LOVE for god.

This statement appears to mean faith in walking in Gods ways, as a Holy, pure, forgiven individual.
But sadly time and again such sentiments have been denied and gone back on.
When does someone go from appearing to aspire to follow God to be actually lying about this?

Able to reach maturity, and work out yoru salvation

This is the sentiment I keep on repeating yet this is described as "crap"

It is strange to see someone use the same arguments as we are using yet claim they are antagonistic
against us. Something is clearly wrong, but at least slowly the arguments are getting through.
Maybe one day all the arguments will be ours, and they will be in fellowship. We can only hope.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Being obtuse

Is it possible some are purposely being obtuse because being otherwise would be for them to give in?
It is not as if the argument is that complex.

But loving people one hates, forgiving people who do not deserve forgiveness, to give up the circumstances
and the resentment of situations that meant everything went wrong is just too difficult.

Much better to wallow where we are, and feel this is fine and God is happy, so it is all good.

Until one moves and changes, literally it is a self fulfilling prophecy, ones position thoughts and outlooks
never shift. A clue is if we are not like Christ we have a lot of shifting still to do.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I do like this sentiment, but we are freed from the law, by fulfilling it in love.

Exactly!