Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it’s dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

I agree. Salvation is not guaranteed. Salvation can be lost by not doing Gods Will no matter what THE PERSON calls themselves.

 

[DeighAnn]

What is the will of God that we should do that gives us everlasting life?

You go to the Word. Study to show yourself approved. And when you abide in the Word, you will have your answers. May you find the wisdom and knowledge and Grace only God can give you. I highly recommend it. There is nothing better in this entire world. And when your eyes are opened, your gifts made known, it is ...the best

 

[KJV1611]

Just to make sure, was Abraham's obedience which resulted from believing God a gift? And if so, was his action to obey credited to that gift?

If you’re talking about Abraham’s obedience to offer up Isaac yes I believe that was due to the faith given to him by God.

 

[NayborBear]

Psalm 119
10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.
33 Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
38 Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.

 

[SimpleGardner]

If you’re talking about Abraham’s obedience to offer up Isaac yes I believe that was due to the faith given to him by God.

Okay, I don't think we are tracking together.

Probably the way I'm asking my questions.

Ar you saying faith is the gift credited to God, or our Obedience is the gift credited to God, or both?

 

[Tx77]

Welcome Tx77, Just started here in the Spring. Great place to challenge your knowledge base. The Holy Spirit has had your attention, I can tell by what you stated. The OT study is amazing isn't it!

Regarding the video you posted last night for me to watch......
A week ago I had placed an order for a book and received it. I haven't really looked at it that much but today picked it up and noticed something. Thought you may enjoy this....I tried to send a photo but it is too large. It is titled "The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah" by Edward Chumney
What are the chances of that? I had emailed Bill Cloud to ask for suggestions on a book regarding the Feasts. He highly advised the one mentioned above. Then you sent the video days later.

 

[KJV1611]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Does this say what I think this says
He that despised Moses' law, that person died without mercy

BUT HOW MUCH WORSE PUNISHMENT, is supposed, for someone worthy of punishment,

UNDER THIS NEW LAW

will they receive BECAUSE THEY TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND COUNT THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT (THE COVENANT UNDER WHICH HE, JESUS, WAS SANCTIFIED) an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?

This is for sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, (super scary part doesn't say we had to understand it, no, we just have had to have RECEIVED IT) there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins,

WHAT IS SIN? Transgression of the law


not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward


for ye have need of patience that after ye have done the will of God, ye MIGHT receive the promise

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Two things to note here.

One, recieving the knowledge of truth does not mean they were converted, it just means they were presented the truth and continued in their sin.

Two, saved ARE NOT under the judgement and indignation of God

Also if you carefully read that whole passage, the context is the Jews rejecting Jesus and the word of truth that were about to be destroyed in AD 70.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

That verse comes from Isaiah I believe, and it's talking about AD 70.

 

[KJV1611]

Okay, I don't think we are tracking together.

Probably the way I'm asking my questions.

Ar you saying faith is the gift credited to God, or our Obedience is the gift credited to God, or both?

I'm saying that both come from God, our faith and our obedience.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Regarding the video you posted last night for me to watch......
A week ago I had placed an order for a book and received it. I haven't really looked at it that much but today picked it up and noticed something. Thought you may enjoy this....I tried to send a photo but it is too large. It is titled "The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah" by Edward Chumney
What are the chances of that? I had emailed Bill Cloud to ask for suggestions on a book regarding the Feasts. He highly advised the one mentioned above. Then you sent the video days later.

What are the chances? well without Godly intervention 1,000,000,000,000,000,000/1 But for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness! A sure thing!

Thank you for sharing that. Has His signature on it. Bless YHWH!

Great topic to look into!

The feasts are more than just observances, they are immersions into the principals of each festivals meaning.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I'm saying that both come from God, our faith and our obedience.

Okay, I thought that might be what you were saying, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks for your patience in drilling down to that.

 

[Grandpa]

If you concern yourself with Grace then works are no concern.

If you concern yourself with works then Grace is no concern.

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Do you think this contradicts the scripture I posted in some way?

 

[Grandpa]

The Word was made flesh. He came in the volume of the Book. He obeyed the law. He fulfilled the prophecy. Should we obey the law because we have been given Gifts from God?

If you had any ability to obey the law then Christ would not have had to have been sacrificed.

He did that for us.

Not so you could go back to some law you have no ability to perform. And apparently don't even know it.

Have you tried yet, to be perfect before God according to your work at the law?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that the Lord says this at the end of His expounding on the Law?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Well, the beauty of the entire question the OP asked is that each man literally makes his own choice in the matter. Both sides defend their choices, but in the end, God will judge, or more precisely, He already has! Whatever His will is, is what all hearts who desire His "will be done" are zealous for!

To the love of God and denial of our self! To finding Christs Yoke and His rest!

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 11:28-31
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[SimpleGardner]

What are the chances? well without Godly intervention 1,000,000,000,000,000,000/1 But for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness! A sure thing!

Thank you for sharing that. Has His signature on it. Bless YHWH!

Great topic to look into!

The feasts are more than just observances, they are immersions into the principals of each festivals meaning.

Regarding the video you posted last night for me to watch......
A week ago I had placed an order for a book and received it. I haven't really looked at it that much but today picked it up and noticed something. Thought you may enjoy this....I tried to send a photo but it is too large. It is titled "The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah" by Edward Chumney
What are the chances of that? I had emailed Bill Cloud to ask for suggestions on a book regarding the Feasts. He highly advised the one mentioned above. Then you sent the video days later.

Oh yeah, they are holy days without the candy! Just the meaning! Also, they make the Babylonian holidays shrink back into the pit from where they came.

 

[DeighAnn]

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Two things to note here.

One, recieving the knowledge of truth does not mean they were converted, it just means they were presented the truth and continued in their sin.

Two, saved ARE NOT under the judgement and indignation of God

Also if you carefully read that whole passage, the context is the Jews rejecting Jesus and the word of truth that were about to be destroyed in AD 70.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

That verse comes from Isaiah I believe, and it's talking about AD 70.

I just read it how GOD wrote it. You obviously completely disagree with Gods presentation of the written word, because you are teaching that it isn't saying what is written. It is clearly written for any fool to understand and that is what it means. God wrote it to fools, us, His children. It isn't rocket science. Find God, get saved. Turn on God, no longer saved. Easy. (unless you live by another doctrine, then it would have to say something else and not that I guess)

Once God has been found, and accepted, (YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED), you continue along your promised path and you can be sure of your salvation, BUT if you willfully continune on sinning after that, there is no more sacrifice for sin and the end is the same as the adversaries.

And it only goes to show in yet another instance that God gives us history to tell our future.

 

[KJV1611]

I just read it how GOD wrote it. You obviously completely disagree with Gods presentation of the written word, because you are teaching that it isn't saying what is written. It is clearly written for any fool to understand and that is what it means. God wrote it to fools, us, His children. It isn't rocket science. Find God, get saved. Turn on God, no longer saved. Easy. (unless you live by another doctrine, then it would have to say something else and not that I guess)

Once God has been found, and accepted, (YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED), you continue along your promised path and you can be sure of your salvation, BUT if you willfully continune on sinning after that, there is no more sacrifice for sin and the end is the same as the adversaries.

And it only goes to show in yet another instance that God gives us history to tell our future.

What did I say that wasn’t what scripture said?

 

[Dan_473]

Very true.

This is also the point being made in the Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and v.8 [AFTER the 70ad events], where v.8 says, "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" (necessarily referring to that which was given to be recorded AFTER the v.7-70ad events [Jesus had long been in Heaven at that point] (and this is what we see in the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation," where verse 1 is essentially saying the exact thing!)


2 Peter 3:16 -

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other [G3062 - loipas - 'rest' / 'remaining' (plural)] scriptures, unto their own destruction."

What does Peter mean by the phrase "the REST [of]/ REMAINING Scriptures"...(in the context of speaking of Paul's writings/epistles/letters, some of which are "hard-to-be-understood")... ? Why not just say, "as they do also 'the Scriptures'"?

And that's also very interesting about
"the REST [of]/ REMAINING Scriptures"...

 

[DeighAnn]

If you concern yourself with Grace then works are no concern.

If you concern yourself with works then Grace is no concern.

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Do you think this contradicts the scripture I posted in some way?

No I don't. I just feel like "works" are starting to get a bad rep. If it wasn't for WORKS not a single person would be here talking about the word. With all this Salvation if a gift, not, of works I just feel they need an advocate. So it is not contradicting in any way, more like complimenting.

 

[Iroaou]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

Here is where Jesus states that the law of Moses is none and void and is useless to you pertaining to eternal life
and commands his sheep to not labor for it anymore

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.