Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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May 1, 2019
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I think I like digging Sweet Taters better than Irish Taters! And I like diggin Irish Taters better than most things!

Diggin taters is kinda like what I think heaven will be like, not sure exactly what is there and always brings more smiles and thankfulness than you could imagine even though you do it year after year it's literally always a JOY!

Hard to explain..:) Awesome to experience!
First of fourteen rows. 7 crates on this one. Dogs are going to be eatin good! They love them too! Some of the premium foods are a high percentage of sweet potatoes! So my dogs eat plenty and chicken eggs and green beans! Hey they keep the deer out of em and the predators away from the chickens, so kinda like Don't muzzle the ox huh?!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You know, I came to recognize how just and good God was from an early age 4-7, but it was later around 11-13 that I began to recognize I was not truly in sync/compliance with Gods Laws and what it meant. The relationship my dad had/has with God and the Love my dad had/has for God fostered a deep level of admiration/respect for God in me. Once I saw/understood my contempt for some of Gods laws, I truly felt horrible; one - for betraying my respect of God and two - for the penalty of eternal separation from Him. The eternal Life aspect was not nearly in the forefront at that age, mostly relationship. My experience was not so much fear of penalty as it was the shame of betrayal and the looming loss of relationship. I know it was The Heavenly Father bringing me to the place of Godly Sorrow, a gift, then giving me the gift/desire to repent which brought me to the gift of reconciliation, Christs blood, shed for the forgiveness of my sins should I choose to accept, which was not a hard choice. The rest was tears and gratefulness! Reading scripture and learning and unlearning. Sometimes unlearning what Church doctrine taught!

Is this what you were getting at?
Explain to me what you mean by loss of relationship. And how was your respect of God betrayed? And how could eternal life possibly not be part of your thinking?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have read some of Reformed Theology T.U.L.I.P. tenets.

Gets pretty detailed.
I have no desire to talk tulip.

I just spoke of three groups.. While people who believe in tulip may fall into one of those three categories.. They are not the only group we are talking about even in their own category.

Sadly alot of people want to make it a tulip (calvin) vs non tulip (arminian) argument, and since probably 75 or more % of all people who claim to be christian do not follow under either of these two groups. Trying to push everyone under one or the other does nothing but cause utter confusion, and a false idea of what the 75 % believe.
 
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Explain to me what you mean by loss of relationship. And how was your respect of God betrayed? And how could eternal life possibly not be part of your thinking?

As a child I had a relationship with God, call it what you will but I felt the presence and love of God, possibly through the proximity to my dad. Hard to pin down but definitely there. I remember feeling horrible one time when I was almost 4 yo when I had found some pennies on a coffee table and picked them up. I had them in my hand in the back yard behind the hedges and remember feeling convicted for taking what wasn't mine. But oddly I was more convicted in a deeper yet childlike sense of hurting my parents an my God. Not enough knowledge to articulate the grief, but certainly enough of the Spirit of God there to bring contrition. I was so broken over that wrong and took them back into the house/repented.

Sorry, I meant to convey I became cognizant of my betrayal of the love I had God.

I loved God! To me betraying Him was something I couldn't reconcile with. Like my dad, I had/have a blessed relationship with my dad and I could never do anything to betray that, never. Makes me tear up at the thought of such a thing. He's a good man, and I love him. My relationship with God is like that only times 1000. God is immeasurably better and wiser and holier than anything here on earth and to have an example like my dad to gage that against has been to my blessing.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
As a child I had a relationship with God, call it what you will but I felt the presence and love of God, possibly through the proximity to my dad. Hard to pin down but definitely there. I remember feeling horrible one time when I was almost 4 yo when I had found some pennies on a coffee table and picked them up. I had them in my hand in the back yard behind the hedges and remember feeling convicted for taking what wasn't mine. But oddly I was more convicted in a deeper yet childlike sense of hurting my parents an my God. Not enough knowledge to articulate the grief, but certainly enough of the Spirit of God there to bring contrition. I was so broken over that wrong and took them back into the house/repented.
How can you have a relationship with God when you are dead in your sin? Even non believers and athiest can feel sorrow for wronging someone..

Sorry, I meant to convey I became cognizant of my betrayal of the love I had God.

I loved God! To me betraying Him was something I couldn't reconcile with. Like my dad, I had/have a blessed relationship with my dad and I could never do anything to betray that, never. Makes me tear up at the thought of such a thing. He's a good man, and I love him. My relationship with God is like that only times 1000. God is immeasurably better and wiser and holier than anything here on earth and to have an example like my dad to gage that against has been to my blessing.
How could you love god BEFORE he loves you in salvation?

Scripture says we love BECAUSE he loved us first. So I can not understand how you can do something which the bible says is not possible?

I was raised in a christian home, I remember thinking things,,I also thought i had a relationship with God, But it was not until I called out to God that things became clear.. and I truly finally understand what it meant to be loved by God, and thus had the capacity to love God back. [/QUOTE]
 
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How can you have a relationship with God when you are dead in your sin? Even non believers and athiest can feel sorrow for wronging someone..



How could you love god BEFORE he loves you in salvation?

Scripture says we love BECAUSE he loved us first. So I can not understand how you can do something which the bible says is not possible?

I was raised in a christian home, I remember thinking things,,I also thought i had a relationship with God, But it was not until I called out to God that things became clear.. and I truly finally understand what it meant to be loved by God, and thus had the capacity to love God back.
[/QUOTE]
Eg,
I cannot deny my experiences. I had a knowledge and appreciation of Gods character and nature from very early on! And I loved Him early on! To satisfy your desire to catagorize my experience perhaps God revealed His Love for me as a babe, and that love triggered my love for Him! It was/is very real, VERY REAL! Faith almost seems like a past means of reaching out to God. He is so real and present that I question what I see in comparison to Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Eg,
I cannot deny my experiences. I had a knowledge and appreciation of Gods character and nature from very early on! And I loved Him early on! To satisfy your desire to catagorize my experience perhaps God revealed His Love for me as a babe, and that love triggered my love for Him! It was/is very real, VERY REAL! Faith almost seems like a past means of reaching out to God. He is so real and present that I question what I see in comparison to Him.
Can experience trump the word?

Was that not the problem with the Jews?

The Bible says we love because god loved us first. Is this true or not?

The Bible says because of sin we are alienated from god unable to have a relationship in fact it calls us dead. Even the law showed this in that only the high priest and ONLY after he gives sacrifice for his own sin could he enter the presence of god

Does it not say this?

So how can you claim to love and have a relationship before you were saved? I am not asking for your experience I am asking for you to resolve that experience with gods word
 
May 1, 2019
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Can experience trump the word?

Was that not the problem with the Jews?

The Bible says we love because god loved us first. Is this true or not?

The Bible says because of sin we are alienated from god unable to have a relationship in fact it calls us dead. Even the law showed this in that only the high priest and ONLY after he gives sacrifice for his own sin could he enter the presence of god

Does it not say this?

So how can you claim to love and have a relationship before you were saved? I am not asking for your experience I am asking for you to resolve that experience with gods word
You know EG,

It sounds like a form of Legalism.

Because you cannot articulate or frame up my experiences according to Gods word you refute it. That is your problem, not mine. My relationship with God might not be anything you can categorize either, but even the Pharisees thought Jesus had a demon because they could not understand His relationship with His Heavenly Father. Most of the saints in the past were executed for the relationship they had with God because the "Church" people could not fit their experiences into the box they had shaped from their own minds, rather than from The Holy Spirit.

You may critique my experiences all you want, but maybe you should look upon your own. Perhaps your own mind is limiting your access to the deeper things of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You know EG,

It sounds like a form of Legalism.

Because you cannot articulate or frame up my experiences according to Gods word you refute it. That is your problem, not mine. My relationship with God might not be anything you can categorize either, but even the Pharisees thought Jesus had a demon because they could not understand His relationship with His Heavenly Father. Most of the saints in the past were executed for the relationship they had with God because the "Church" people could not fit their experiences into the box they had shaped from their own minds, rather than from The Holy Spirit.

You may critique my experiences all you want, but maybe you should look upon your own. Perhaps your own mind is limiting your access to the deeper things of God.
if we went off experiences there would be millions of beliefs. Many people in cc speak of their experiences and that is why they believe what they do. Yet they have differing views

So how do we differentiate from the truth and just experience which leads to non truth?

It’s the word of god

You have experiences great. But if you want to convince me and others. Align those experiences with the word

Show me in the word where we can love god before he loves us. And where we have a relationship with him while still dead in our sin


 
May 1, 2019
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if we went off experiences there would be millions of beliefs. Many people in cc speak of their experiences and that is why they believe what they do. Yet they have differing views

So how do we differentiate from the truth and just experience which leads to non truth?

It’s the word of god

You have experiences great. But if you want to convince me and others. Align those experiences with the word

Show me in the word where we can love god before he loves us. And where we have a relationship with him while still dead in our sin
I suppose I do not wish to convince you though. Nothing personal, you asked, I shared, you refuted, your choice.

Do you know it is not wise to compare your experiences with others.

If you do not have a deep love of God and His Torah of which you can give testimony of, which I have never heard you give even a hint of, and you seem to confront others on their hearts filled with love for God and His Torah then what do you testify of other than envy?
 

Eli12

Active member
Jul 3, 2019
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Let's look at this issue from another perspective:

1) if the holy spirit is considered as a person, and as God, the spirit is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY ...

2) A person who claims to be born again must necessarily have the holy spirit in him / her. If that person insists on a sin proceeding, the holy spirit (from the previous point of view) will not remain in that person in any way, because the holy spirit would not tolerate living with willful sin.

Conclusion: If the holy spirit departs from that person who had it before, as follows from the two previous premises, that person is still dead in his/her sins and is not "saved" in any way, and does not even have the spirit of God to be considered "born again."

Heb 10:26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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if we went off experiences there would be millions of beliefs. Many people in cc speak of their experiences and that is why they believe what they do. Yet they have differing views

So how do we differentiate from the truth and just experience which leads to non truth?

It’s the word of god

You have experiences great. But if you want to convince me and others. Align those experiences with the word

Show me in the word where we can love god before he loves us. And where we have a relationship with him while still dead in our sin
God loved us before we were born, so all our love is after He loved us, simple.....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I suppose I do not wish to convince you though. Nothing personal, you asked, I shared, you refuted, your choice.

Do you know it is not wise to compare your experiences with others.

If you do not have a deep love of God and His Torah of which you can give testimony of, which I have never heard you give even a hint of, and you seem to confront others on their hearts filled with love for God and His Torah then what do you testify of other than envy?
I want to go by what the Bible says not what someone thinks

If your experience does not line up with the word of go that’s all it is. An experienced

But if you want to look to experience and take that over the word

That’s on you
 
May 1, 2019
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I want to go by what the Bible says not what someone thinks

If your experience does not line up with the word of go that’s all it is. An experienced

But if you want to look to experience and take that over the word

That’s on you
You definitely suffer from an overwhelming dread that somewhere, sometime, somehow, someone may be enjoying God and the beauty of His Laws.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I suppose I do not wish to convince you though. Nothing personal, you asked, I shared, you refuted, your choice.
Do you know it is not wise to compare your experiences with others.
If you do not have a deep love of God and His Torah of which you can give testimony of, which I have never heard you give even a hint of, and you seem to confront others on their hearts filled with love for God and His Torah then what do you testify of other than envy?
Some of these folk do not understand joy of seeing Gods law and its justice.
Hard hearts always lock out love and purity. I know some guys on forums if
they could would do others real harm, yet they do not see this might deny the
very beliefs they claim to hold so dear.

Maybe their instant solutions to everything blind them to its failure and emptiness,
because we miss they have a sinking ship and are happy just to plug the holes, as long
as they think it is not sunk, all smiles.

When a child is in pain, you cannot but respond. These guys seem capable to deny everything
until the pain kicks in, and then everything shifts, as if nothing was different.

I have zero confidence these guys know how to present purity and holiness.
The priests in the temple could be cleansed and serve God, yet believers cannot do better with
the cross and Jesus's blood and body along with His teaching. Paul says we are Gods Holy temple,
but in their eyes this is impossible. Paul was impure except he said we should live a pure life,
Peter was not holy except he said we should live a holy life.

Unbelief denies Gods word and denies His power to achieve that which He has promised because
of their past experience. Ironic when experience is claimed to mean nothing and Gods word
everything. It suggests the opposite is actually in place in their lives, their words do not match
up with what they are doing. God bless you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You definitely suffer from an overwhelming dread that somewhere, sometime, somehow, someone may be enjoying God and the beauty of His Laws.
You keep saying this and your wrong and in fact it is a cop out

You have a complex and it is sad that anyone who disagrees with you you think hates gods law

I love gods law

Ps. When are you going to show me where the law in in context of John 6
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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If you love me, keep my commandments

Where did Jesus ever say We should quit keeping the law?

Or of Jews {is He} the God only? not also of Gentiles? Yes, also of Gentiles
Since indeed One God who will justify {the} circumcision by faith and {the} uncircumcision through the faith


Law, then do we nullify through faith? Never may it be! Instead, Law we uphold
"do we nullify"
2376 katargeo from "kata" and "argeo" to be {render} entirely idle {useless}
make idle, make of no effect, annul, abolish, bring to naught, discharge, separate from, do away, become or make of none effect, bring to nought, put away or down, vanish away, make void, to deprive of its strength, make barren, to cause a person to have no further efficiency,
to deprive of force, influence or power, to cause to cease, to put an end to, to do away with, annul, abolish, to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from, to terminate all contact with, to let slip, leave unused.


We are justified by faith, and by faith we establish the law. Romans 3

Though the "Righteousness of God" is manifested without the law, the law and the prophets witness to it.


Justified by Faith

But now the righteousness of God without the law (it WAS manifested by the law and the prophets, now it is manifest before them in flesh and blood) is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ (Jesus made flesh giving a visual example of what it looks like to walk in the righteousness of the laws of God while fulfilling the prophecies of His coming) unto all and upon all them that believe for there is no difference for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST (not future) through the forbearance of God to declare, I say, at this time His righteousness that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay but by the Law of faith Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Do we then make void the law through faith????? (my opinion **** God would absolutely forbid such a thing as that. We are still most definitely to Establish the Law. Jesus CAME in the Volume of the Book. It is written of Him. He backs it up 100%. It is what He is about. He is showing us how it is done GODS WAY, GODS WILL and God wills that we be holy. How do we know what Holy is??? Look at the Life of Jesus. Study the Old Testament. Answers are found therein.*****)




Jesus faith in the righteousness of God and through His righteousness God is made manifest to us, His righteousness witnessed by the law and prophets, (the volume of the book), for all who believe and all who don't believe (because all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God).
By the grace of God we are justified by of The work of Jesus His righteous blood, blood shed to appease the wrath created by the sins PAST .
So Right is God, So Just is God, So forgiving is God, that even knowing the sinners we are, set forth, by the righteousness of Himself, Himself, volunteering His blood to be shed, to make payment for all our sins that had been committed, allowing His wrath to not be put out upon us, but let it go and be the justifier of us. All, believers and not, fall short, we sin. When we come to faith, the payment of our sins is in His righteousness Our belief in the goodness of God justifies us.

Could you imagine a human being ever being able to touch the realm of what Our Lord, and Savoir did for us?? I can not think of a "work" let alone perform one that could compared to the love and sacrifices God has done for us all. I could spend the rest of my life working day and night, giving it all I had and then put it on a table sitting next to what GOD has done and you wouldn't even be able to see it. Boasting of our works as men doesn't even impress men, let alone God, our Creator.
Does our being justified through faith in anyway make the law less important? Never. How much more important it is to try to follow because every bit we get right, is a sin we don't commit and every sin we don't commit makes God happy and makes us a better person. Should we arrive back to God the same person He sent?? Or should we return a better than we were, more disciplined, obedient, child with more of His wisdom and knowledge, better because the Comforter He sent us helped keep us on the straight and narrow, helped us discern between right and wrong, took those prayers we prayed in His Will to Him, uttering for us the prayers we had yet had no words for.

How important is it for God to look down on us and see us following His will? To see the fruits of our spirit putting forth His ways, living our lives in His Will, loving and speaking and walking His Will, not our own. Meek and humble, full of love of not only Him but of our brethren as well? Being the more Christ like in all our ways, actions and speech.


















Abrahams faith "was reckoned" to him FOR righteousness. Doesn't say "he was made righteous" like getting a book and saying I now owned every book in the world?????
The promise is of faith so that it can be "According to Grace". TO BE SURE NOT of the LAW ONLY but ALSO to that of the faith?????
4:16
delivered over (to death??) for the trespasses of us and raised for the justification (divine approval, acquittal, a process of absolution)




















z
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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1,201
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You definitely suffer from an overwhelming dread that somewhere, sometime, somehow, someone may be enjoying God and the beauty of His Laws.
Be careful or you will get, you do not know anything about me, what I believe or my history.
For a believer who shares lots on cc, close to the highest poster here 61,726 this must be suprisingly
incapable of communicating what one believes, unless ofcourse they are actually lying and it
is just a troll all this time, lol.

The trouble with people who feel they have Gods answer to everything, when they cannot answer
or even put a good point, it clearly looks bad. And it is so bad, all they can do is put people on
ignore. Put simply their own logic and mind cannot face the fact they are losing the argument,
because that is just too painful.

It is as bad saying someone is a liar and a sinner, but not able to say about what and how.
God calls people liars who claim to know God but do not obey Him.

I would go further, you cannot claim to love God and not take delight in His law and precepts.
God cares deeply about His law and why it works. If one cannot delight in His law, how can one
claim to want His will on earth as it is in heaven, as one opposes His law ruling today.