Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Here again is a perspective that is critical of anyone who takes Joy in what Jesus has put in our hearts to do.

Many have had negative experiences with the Law. Many proceeded to "keep the Laws" of God from the weakness of their flesh and failed. This is a horrifying experince! Self Doubt, Question ones own Salvation, Humiliation etc.

But the entire promise of God in the OT was for us to "wait fore it" His promise give us His Holy Spirit which would write His Torah/Laws/Teachings/Will on our hearts so that we COULD do the Good Works from a willing heart.

It reminds me of the years before I had a garden and was mostly busy outdoors with other activities. In those days rain was a a hindrance to me. Now that I have a garden, and orchard, a vineyard, berry patches asparagus patches, pecan groves, pasture grasses etc I love the rain! The rain brings Life to everything I do, whereas before it brought setbacks.

This is how the Holy Spirit changes our perspective on the Laws of God! With a willing heart we now delight in His Laws like Kind David did! If you dont beleive he loved Gods Torah read Psalm 119! He was SMITTEN! It is a testimony of what Gods Holy Spirit can do to a willing heart in reference to His Laws!

So when I speak fondly of His Torah/Teachings, you should know, I'm eathen up wit Love for His Will, Ways, Teachings, requirements, etc. Through the Holy Spirits influence the Torah has gone from a burden to a delight. That is what all men should hope for and is available to all who desire it, and are called!

Bless YHWH, Know and KEEP

SG

Forgive me, But I have no idea what this has to do with John 6 or my post.


And PS. I have a love for Gods law to. So much love I wish to interpret its meaning, and its purpose correctly. As I pray we all do. But again, this has nothing to do with Jesus words in John 6 about seeking food which endures to eternal life.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Forgive me, But I have no idea what this has to do with John 6 or my post.


And PS. I have a love for Gods law to. So much love I wish to interpret its meaning, and its purpose correctly. As I pray we all do. But again, this has nothing to do with Jesus words in John 6 about seeking food which endures to eternal life.

Sure it does EG, all you have to do is read down to it's interpretation in John 6:29

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 6: 29, this is the work of God that you believe in the one he sent?

Again, This has NOTHIGN to do with the law. This has to do with God drawing people to himself. And the people believing in him

The law can not grant eternal life to anyone, if it could. It would cease. But it did not. Because it was powerless. The law had to be continually obeyed, And even then People ould obey it and still die because they could not fulfill it)

The context of John 6 is not looking for physical food which will die, and the people who eat it will die.

But for spiritual food, which one can eat and not die. The bread from heaven which whoever eats will never die. The flesh and blood of Christ, which one can eat and never hunger and thirst.

He spoke of the spiritual truth, Which Peter acknowledge, Your are the christ the son of the living God. Who has the WORDS of eternal life.

 

[SimpleGardner]

John 6: 29, this is the work of God that you believe in the one he sent?

Again, This has NOTHIGN to do with the law. This has to do with God drawing people to himself. And the people believing in him

The law can not grant eternal life to anyone, if it could. It would cease. But it did not. Because it was powerless. The law had to be continually obeyed, And even then People ould obey it and still die because they could not fulfill it)

The context of John 6 is not looking for physical food which will die, and the people who eat it will die.

But for spiritual food, which one can eat and not die. The bread from heaven which whoever eats will never die. The flesh and blood of Christ, which one can eat and never hunger and thirst.

He spoke of the spiritual truth, Which Peter acknowledge, Your are the christ the son of the living God. Who has the WORDS of eternal life.

You need to study the Greek verse, not the English verse.

SG

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You need to study the Greek verse, not the English verse.

SG

What part are you talking about. I have access to the greek. So please share and I will test what you think.

 

[SimpleGardner]

What part are you talking about. I have access to the greek. So please share and I will test what you think.

Okay,

Look at the G4100:
Trying to copy my V-PAS-2P over but cannot.

Look for the essence of that word in it's context and you will find it refers to Faith Believing which is Obedience.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, why, because Faith is Believing expressed in Obedience.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Okay,

Look at the G4100:
Trying to copy my V-PAS-2P over but cannot.

Look for the essence of that word in it's context and you will find it refers to Faith Believing which is Obedience.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, why, because Faith is Believing expressed in Obedience.

Look at the Vines too

 

[SimpleGardner]

Be back later, still weedin sweet potatoes!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus words in Jhn 6: 29

This - Houtos - this one, this person, what follows, (in the demonstrative)
Work - ergon - works, deeds, action
Of God - tou theo - Of God
That - in order that, so that
Believe - pistueo - to have assurance of, to trust in, to rely on
The one - eikenos - that one, that person, the one
Sent - apostello (apostle) the one who was sent, or a sent out one.

Again, See absolutely nothing here that has anythign to do with the law.. It talks about the work Christ is doing, that work and as he said later, the words he speaks, which comes from the spirit, being done so that we will trust or have assurance in what he says..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay,

Look at the G4100:
Trying to copy my V-PAS-2P over but cannot.

Look for the essence of that word in it's context and you will find it refers to Faith Believing which is Obedience.

Without faith it is impossible to please God, why, because Faith is Believing expressed in Obedience.

It would help if you showed me what word you are talking about.

If your talking about faith

It is having an assurance, a trust, a confidence in what is being trusted on.. It has nothign to do with obedience. (Although obedience follows faith. Our obedeince is not what is in question here. It is our faith in GODS WORK.)

If your talking about work. It is talking about action. Which is takin gplace. And the work spoken about is Gods work.

 

[SimpleGardner]

It would help if you showed me what word you are talking about.

If your talking about faith

It is having an assurance, a trust, a confidence in what is being trusted on.. It has nothign to do with obedience. (Although obedience follows faith. Our obedeince is not what is in question here. It is our faith in GODS WORK.)

If your talking about work. It is talking about action. Which is takin gplace. And the work spoken about is Gods work.

Believing is Trusting yes

Faith is the connection between Belief and Obedience

Obedience proof of Trust. Think Abraham He beleived God, so He Obeyed God which is FAITH! Sure, Sure the evidence of things hoped for...but in real terms! Obedience.

It is impossible to please God without FAITH

Because without faith a man does not carry his beliefs over to Obedience

Anything that is not of FAITH is SIN! Why? Because Beliefs without obedience would be disobedience which is SIN.

This aint circular logic either EG. This is Straight Line Logic.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Catch up later.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Believing is Trusting yes

Faith is the connection between Belief and Obedience

Obedience proof of Trust. Think Abraham He beleived God, so He Obeyed God which is FAITH! Sure, Sure the evidence of things hoped for...but in real terms! Obedience.

It is impossible to please God without FAITH

Because without faith a man does not carry his beliefs over to Obedience

Anything that is not of FAITH is SIN! Why? Because Beliefs without obedience would be disobedience which is SIN.

This aint circular logic either EG. This is Straight Line Logic.

Its your logic my friend

Belief is a trust on someone or something, It is an assurance in them, or of them

If you have this trust in someone, you will learn to follow them. (This is works)

Jhn 6 is jesus talking about how one is saved, Not what one does after they are saved

Jesus is not talking about our works in John 6, He is talking about HIS WORK, HIS WORK which he is doing which will bring us to faith or bring us to the point we have an assurance in him

Salvation is based on faith, NOT WORKS The end result of salvation is works.

You still have not shown me how John 6 relates to the law.. are you going to get around to that or not? (I already showed you in the greek how vs 29 is speaking of the work Jesus was doing through God, and hwo it was this work which would bring us to faith. Which would give us eternal life.

Abraham did not obey immediately, In fact, at first he disobeyed God. I am thinking of opening a thread based on abraham, and How God was faithful even when abraham was not fully obedient.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is impossible to please God without FAITH

I agree here

But you can have all the faith in the world. If you are not born again into the family of God. You will never be able to please him

Lets get to the point of HOW we are born again, to be able to please God in the first place.

That is the subject of John 6, (in fact, we can say the subject john 3 - 6)

 

[Yahshua]

Romans 7:10-12 (berean)
10 So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death.

11 For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.

12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.


Point 1: The law IS for life

Point 2: The SIN in me puts me to death (using the law).


To clarify what's being said, I think I could fairly say this for example...

Point 1: The gun was made to protect life

Point 2: The violence in me can put someone to death (using the gun).

The gun isn't the problem.

Point 3: The gun has no power to kill a person already dead.


Sin (and satan) use the law to put us to death. The law isn't the problem. And if we die in the flesh by faith in The Messiah, the law doesn't have power to kill us anymore but the power to do what it was originally intended to do.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
John 6

The work of God, doing Gods work is to believe in Jesus.
To believe in someone is to trust them, to listen to them, to follow them, to
have them as our example, to obey them, to put them above other men.

For me it is mind numbing to hear believing in Jesus is not to believe Him, obey Him,
follow Him, have Him as our example, put Him above other men, but just accept He
has forgiven our sins, past, present and future. It gets so bad because Jesus himself
said

23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him,
and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 14

I love this verse. "We will make our home with him."
God will dwell with us if we obey Jesus's teaching. That is a stunning promise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 7:10-12 (berean)
10 So I discovered that the very commandment that was meant to bring life actually brought death.

11 For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.

12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.


Point 1: The law IS for life

Point 2: The SIN in me puts me to death (using the law).


To clarify what's being said, I think I could fairly say this for example...

Point 1: The gun was made to protect life

Point 2: The violence in me can put someone to death (using the gun).

The gun isn't the problem.

Point 3: The gun has no power to kill a person already dead.


Sin (and satan) use the law to put us to death. The law isn't the problem. And if we die in the flesh by faith in The Messiah, the law doesn't have power to kill us anymore but the power to do what it was originally intended to do.

I have a better example

Lets say we have a law that says if you take someone life. Your life will be required of you (the death penalty)

The law is holy and it is good.

So then, lets say you go out, and you take someones life.

According to the law. Your life must be taken in return.

Lets say though, That we have people who think the law is not to be taken of by the word. Or it is too harsh. And passes a lower judgment (life in prison for example) does the person who gave the lower punishment actually give the law love or justice of adhere to it? Of course not. He has disobeyed the law himself.

The law says the penalty of sin is death, Anyone who lowers the enalty, by saying this sin is not deserving of death, but those sins are. Have defiled the law. Taken it out of context. And actually HATES the law. (Even though they say they love it)

Of course, I am not talkin gabout physical penalties for certain sins, I am talking about what moses demanded was the penalty for not keeping the law as required.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 6 is not talking about how a christian is to act

John 6 is about how one receives or takes eternal life. (Or hw one is justified)

So unless you believe one must earn eternal life by your own works then you can not have obedience as the context of john 6.

It does no good to talk about fruits of our labor (works of sanctification) if we are not yet justified. For all we have the is self righteous acts of trying to obey God. Which are meaningless.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I have a better example
Lets say we have a law that says if you take someone life. Your life will be required of you (the death penalty)
The law is holy and it is good.
So then, lets say you go out, and you take someones life.
According to the law. Your life must be taken in return.
Lets say though, That we have people who think the law is not to be taken of by the word. Or it is too harsh. And passes a lower judgment (life in prison for example) does the person who gave the lower punishment actually give the law love or justice of adhere to it? Of course not. He has disobeyed the law himself.
The law says the penalty of sin is death, Anyone who lowers the enalty, by saying this sin is not deserving of death, but those sins are. Have defiled the law. Taken it out of context. And actually HATES the law. (Even though they say they love it)
Of course, I am not talkin gabout physical penalties for certain sins, I am talking about what moses demanded was the penalty for not keeping the law as required.

The argument above is attempting to say if we break the law we hate it.
No we are law breakers. The moral law is an interesting question.
Should we put in place 100% accurately the moral law of God in civil law, or should we live a life of conformity
to the moral law, and leave civil government to decide what they want to do?

The attempt here is to make those who support a moral perspective haters of the law by not imposing
the full weight of the law. But that is not ours to take as believers.

We take the moral law as defining what is and is not sinful behaviour. This is the will of God.
What happens to a repentant murderer or adulterer is to them and the civil authorities.

What is clear though is some would rather live as lawless men without a conscience or knowing what is
right and wrong or Gods will in our lives, as if this is Gods calling, which clearly it is not.

The trouble in these conversations, the attempt is always made to make people into haters of Christ,
when both sides claim Him as Lord and Saviour.

 

[Yahshua]

I have a better example

Lets say we have a law that says if you take someone life. Your life will be required of you (the death penalty)

The law is holy and it is good.

So then, lets say you go out, and you take someones life.

According to the law. Your life must be taken in return.

Lets say though, That we have people who think the law is not to be taken of by the word. Or it is too harsh. And passes a lower judgment (life in prison for example) does the person who gave the lower punishment actually give the law love or justice of adhere to it? Of course not. He has disobeyed the law himself.

The law says the penalty of sin is death, Anyone who lowers the enalty, by saying this sin is not deserving of death, but those sins are. Have defiled the law. Taken it out of context. And actually HATES the law. (Even though they say they love it)

Of course, I am not talkin gabout physical penalties for certain sins, I am talking about what moses demanded was the penalty for not keeping the law as required.

I agree with everything you said. I'm reminded of the pharisees adding to and taking away from the law and established their own traditions. They were unrighteous judges, impartial with the law.

But how is this example a better example for explaining the passage? I guess I'm not seeing how it ties to it.