Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Greetings Iroaou,

These are some very sobering passages and lovely passages. Besides our conversations on needing plainer English on some of your questions, you have asked some important questions. They need to be asked.

Help me with one. I have been looking, still looking but can only find one way we can actually "Love" Jesus, and only one way we can possibly have fellowship with Him and the Heavenly Father. I won't say it, because I already know you know it, and because I just want confirmation from another that there is literally only one way.

Sincerely

SG

 

[Iroaou]

Greetings Iroaou,

These are some very sobering passages and lovely passages. Besides our conversations on needing plainer English on some of your questions, you have asked some important questions. They need to be asked.

Help me with one. I have been looking, still looking but can only find one way we can actually "Love" Jesus, and only one way we can possibly have fellowship with Him and the Heavenly Father. I won't say it, because I already know you know it, and because I just want confirmation from another that there is literally only one way.

Sincerely

SG

The only way God will accept anything from you or you.
Is in Spirit and Truth.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The only way God will accept anything from you or you.
Is in Spirit and Truth.

If you do not want to answer my question I would prefer you just say so.

If you think you answered it please reread it. Thank You

SG

 

[Iroaou]

If you do not want to answer my question I would prefer you just say so.

If you think you answered it please reread it. Thank You

SG

This you have said to me it's not in Spirit and Truth therefore it is unacceptable to me.

 

[SimpleGardner]

This you have said to me it's not in Spirit and Truth therefore it is unacceptable to me.

Not a trick question. Hoped you would know. When you run across it feel free to revisit it.

 

[Iroaou]

Not a trick question. Hoped you would know. When you run across it feel free to revisit it.

Here again this you have said to me is not in Spirit and Truth but I will for your sake point out to you when you do say something to me that is in Spirit and Truth so
You might learn if the Lord be willing.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Here again this you have said to me is not in Spirit and Truth but I will for your sake point out to you when you do say something to me that is in Spirit and Truth so
You might learn if the Lord be willing.

I did not intend to put you on the defensive. When you find it you will smile and see! Here we teach and learn. The humble among us learn more.

 

[Iroaou]

I did not intend to put you on the defensive. When you find it you will smile and see! Here we teach and learn. The humble among us learn more.

How humble are you compared to me?

 

[SimpleGardner]

How humble are you compared to me?

I don't know, how many red blood cells do you have this very minute?

 

[Jackson123]

GOD gives man obedience?

If God give faith and obidience,

In the last judgement day when God say, depart from me because you do not have faith and obidience

The man say, : your false God, I do not have that because you do not give It to me.

 

[Grandpa]

If God give faith and obidience,

In the last judgement day when God say, depart from me because you do not have faith and obidience

The man say, : your false God, I do not have that because you do not give It to me.

James 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Matthew 7-11
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

 

[DeighAnn]

That's too many times.

But the Law is a problem. For us. Not because it is bad. Because it Commands Perfection. And we don't have the strength or the understanding to be Perfect.

We need Supernatural Spiritual help.

Romans 7:18-24
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Did you read what you quoted? Are you trying to help me convince you? OF COURSE, we need Spiritual Guidance. Without the Comforter, the indwelling of the Spirit we have nothing, as far as God is concerned.

WHO HELPS us grow. The spirit. Who convicts us when the flesh is being bad. The Spirit. What does that Spirit contain. THE Volume of the book. The Spirit inside Helps us conquer the flesh and its sinful ways. But we have to know what is going on.

If the Spirit came and dwelled inside us and gave us all the information in the book, We would not even need to speak, we would all be perfect. There would be only oneness. Then again who would need us. God cant order, or buy or force love from us. It has to come from within the entity on its own. If not it is not love at all.

We must do the work. Did Jesus work? Did the Apostles and Disciples work? Did everyone who brought the Word from them to us, work? Do Priests work? Is it work to Go teach baptize? Is it work to help the poor? Is it works to go read to an elderly person the bible who can no longer do it on their own? Is it work to study your bible and put on the Gospel armor? Yet, somehow when it finally gets to you, it ends cause, you rest.

Make no mistake. You are following laws. Are they flesh or are they spiritual? If you are not following spiritual laws of the Spirit, you are following flesh laws. You can talk about the gifts of God that are just free, but think about the Gifts of teaching , the spirit of prophecy, speaking in tongues ECT, THEY ALL ALLOW YOU TO WORK AT SPREADING THE WORD. NO, none of us can accomplish the will of God in our lives without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit helps us crucify the flesh everyday. We have to crucify the flesh or it will take back over.
AND WE DO THIS NOT TO keep the gift we have already received, we do this because we love God back. We want to make God happy. We want God to win. When Jesus returns we want Him to find a fire already kindled. That takes work which we more than happily do because we can't help it, the spirit of the Lord working inside us, making it all but impossible not to. Why do you keep KICKING AGAINST THE PRICKS?

 

[Jackson123]

James 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Matthew 7-11
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

So you do not have faith because you not ask?

do not have faith, mean do not believe in God, and If you do not believe in God. How you ask God, you do not believe that there is God how you ask to god

 

[Grandpa]

So you do not have faith because you not ask?

do not have faith, mean do not believe in God, and If you do not believe in God. How you ask God, you do not believe that there is God how you ask to god

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

I suppose you have to have at least a little wisdom in order to ask God for what you need.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Romans 9:19-24
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[NayborBear]

Wow. I didn't actually say all that but I would have if we had had a longer conversation.

I consider that there was a lot of work that had to be done in order to come to Christ. And more work while Christ was stripping away the things (idols) that we thought mattered but didn't.

But looking back we were led to those things. We didn't study and figure it all out and then do it.

We were shown. Then we did. Then we studied and found out it was in there all along... And there was a LOT of studying afterward and prayer trying to figure out what had ALREADY happened.

Not that the studying and prayer would have really changed anything. But it helped with the understanding and with explaining to others. Somewhat...

If we are at agreement? Then, perhaps it might be even more beneficial, should you ask for more "talent."
Or, ask for more "Harvesting Angels."
John 16
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have recently started seeking God on this very subject over the past couple of months. I am still learning but I feel like too many disregard the Old Testament due to the "not being under the law". I find it to be absolutely fundamental in my walk with God as it parallels with the New Testament. I am not deep enough to really state any firm beliefs, but I will say this. I do believe we are still supposed to keep the Seven Festivals of the Messiah .....but I have very limited knowledge as to how to do that, hence the research. I also believe too much grace and mercy are taught (please don't take this wrong) but my point is - I do feel God still expects us to live a righteous life. Of course we will all fall short and sin as we are humans but I do feel there is something deeper to following God. He came to fullfill not abolish the law. As I said in the beginning I am just getting started in finding truth regarding this but those are my thoughts - they may be completely off from your OP ....but there they are.

Welcome to CC.

I too am saddened by those who think the OT is useless. Or should just be disregarded. There is so much in the OT which we can learn from. Not to mention all the prophecy which not only helps ur faith in seeing Christ fulfill them. And as of yet future prophesies which show God is not slack concerning his promise, and that this evil we see on earth today will be dealt with.

Then of course we have the historical aspect. Which continues to prove God is God. And the bible is the word. The examples of how god deals with people. And how people grow their faith anbd really how much Grace God really shows (it saddens me when people think the OT God is a vindictive punishing Gd and fail to see his grace)

Then the law. Where we can study, and this too grows our faith that we made the right decision in trusting God. And help us understand even the smallest of all sins is so destructive to our relationship with God that it carries with it the penalty of death.

But what do you think about the law and our life today? While sin is still sin (bearing false witness, murder, Coveting, Dishonoring our parents etc) and those things will never fade. What parts of the law are we to follow? As it seems that is the discussion in this thread. (I hope you see this)

I pray also you know I am asking honestly.. As some people here think otherwise..

Again, Welcome to CC. I look forward to seeing what you have to share.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Here is where Jesus states that the law of Moses is none and void and is useless to you pertaining to eternal life
and commands his sheep to not labor for it anymore

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

If you wish to understand the verse you cited you will have to put it into context. You say it means don't keep the commandments of God, yet when those he was speaking to asked what he meant he said "labor" for eternal life hes said:


Joh 6:29 NIV Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Look up "Beleive" it is greek word "pisteou"

Here's the Vines Greek Dictionary def that applies:

B2. Obedience, Obedient, Obey [Verb] peitho "to persuade, to win over," in the Passive and Middle Voices, "to be persuaded, to listen to, to obey," is so used with this meaning, in the Middle Voice, e.g., in Acts 5:36-37 (in Acts 5:40, Passive Voice, "they agreed"); Rom 2:8; Gal 5:7; Heb 13:17; James 3:3. The "obedience" suggested is not by submission to authority, but resulting from persuasion.
"Peitho and pisteuo" 'to trust,' are closely related etymologically; the difference in meaning is that the former implies the obedience that is produced by the latter, cp. Heb 3:18,19, where the disobedience of the Israelites is said to be the evidence of their unbelief. Faith is of the heart, invisible to men; obedience is of the conduct and may be observed. When a man obeys God he gives the only possible evidence that in his heart he believes God. Of course it is persuasion of the truth that results in faith (we believe because we are persuaded that the thing is true, a thing does not become true because it is believed), but peitho, in NT suggests an actual and outward result of the inward persuasion and consequent faith." [ From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 254,255.] See peitho under ASSURANCE.

So if you have taken the time to read this far you should see that Jesus explained the meaning of the verse you cited as His putting away the Law, to actually be understood as to "Obey the one who sent me"

Once you take the time to study beyond the "English" translation you will find clarity.

With eSword (free bible software) we have more study tools with which to study the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that anyone has had at any other time in history. All of these resources are "interlinked" so that you merely have click and you are there! Take a look at it.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Regarding the video you posted last night for me to watch......
A week ago I had placed an order for a book and received it. I haven't really looked at it that much but today picked it up and noticed something. Thought you may enjoy this....I tried to send a photo but it is too large. It is titled "The Seven Festivals Of The Messiah" by Edward Chumney
What are the chances of that? I had emailed Bill Cloud to ask for suggestions on a book regarding the Feasts. He highly advised the one mentioned above. Then you sent the video days later.

Good Morning Tx77,

I wanted to ask you if you have ever heard of "eSword"? It's a Computer based software and requires zero internet connectivity to use.

IT"S AMAZING! and IT"S FREE!

And NO! I am not an eSword Rep or anything, just a long time user!



SG

eSword Link

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you wish to understand the verse you cited you will have to put it into context. You say it means don't keep the commandments of God, yet when those he was speaking to asked what he meant he said "labor" for eternal life hes said:


Joh 6:29 NIV Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Look up "Beleive" it is greek word "pisteou"

Here's the Vines Greek Dictionary def that applies:

B2. Obedience, Obedient, Obey [Verb] peitho "to persuade, to win over," in the Passive and Middle Voices, "to be persuaded, to listen to, to obey," is so used with this meaning, in the Middle Voice, e.g., in Acts 5:36-37 (in Acts 5:40, Passive Voice, "they agreed"); Rom 2:8; Gal 5:7; Heb 13:17; James 3:3. The "obedience" suggested is not by submission to authority, but resulting from persuasion.
"Peitho and pisteuo" 'to trust,' are closely related etymologically; the difference in meaning is that the former implies the obedience that is produced by the latter, cp. Heb 3:18,19, where the disobedience of the Israelites is said to be the evidence of their unbelief. Faith is of the heart, invisible to men; obedience is of the conduct and may be observed. When a man obeys God he gives the only possible evidence that in his heart he believes God. Of course it is persuasion of the truth that results in faith (we believe because we are persuaded that the thing is true, a thing does not become true because it is believed), but peitho, in NT suggests an actual and outward result of the inward persuasion and consequent faith." [ From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 254,255.] See peitho under ASSURANCE.

So if you have taken the time to read this far you should see that Jesus explained the meaning of the verse you cited as His putting away the Law, to actually be understood as to "Obey the one who sent me"

Once you take the time to study beyond the "English" translation you will find clarity.

With eSword (free bible software) we have more study tools with which to study the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that anyone has had at any other time in history. All of these resources are "interlinked" so that you merely have click and you are there! Take a look at it.

In John 6, Jesus is telling them a straight truth. Remember, Jesus had crossed the sea. After a major miracle of feeding 500 people (men, if we include women and children it is far greater number than that) The next day, the people LABORED to cross the sea; to find where jesus was. And when they got to him. What wer they looking for? We can just read Jesus words.

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

In other words. They did not seek because the signs which pointed to him (messiah) but because they ate and were filled.

His answer

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Do not work hard just so you can eat some physical food. For you will hunger again after you eat it (it will die) but instead labour for the food which will endure to ever lasting life. Which as he said, one will eat. And NEVER DIE.

There is nothing about the text about law (I agree) but there is nothing about obedience either. Jesus isa trying to get their priorities in check. What good is physical food. Their fathers ate manna supplied by God and they are dead. If your going to work. Work to find the food which will last forever. Which Jesus will give them because God the father has given it to them

 

[SimpleGardner]

In John 6, Jesus is telling them a straight truth. Remember, Jesus had crossed the sea. After a major miracle of feeding 500 people (men, if we include women and children it is far greater number than that) The next day, the people LABORED to cross the sea; to find where jesus was. And when they got to him. What wer they looking for? We can just read Jesus words.

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

In other words. They did not seek because the signs which pointed to him (messiah) but because they ate and were filled.

His answer

27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

Do not work hard just so you can eat some physical food. For you will hunger again after you eat it (it will die) but instead labour for the food which will endure to ever lasting life. Which as he said, one will eat. And NEVER DIE.

There is nothing about the text about law (I agree) but there is nothing about obedience either. Jesus isa trying to get their priorities in check. What good is physical food. Their fathers ate manna supplied by God and they are dead. If your going to work. Work to find the food which will last forever. Which Jesus will give them because God the father has given it to them

Here again is a perspective that is critical of anyone who takes Joy in what Jesus has put in our hearts to do.

Many have had negative experiences with the Law. Many proceeded to "keep the Laws" of God from the weakness of their flesh and failed. This is a horrifying experince! Self Doubt, Question ones own Salvation, Humiliation etc.

But the entire promise of God in the OT was for us to "wait fore it" His promise give us His Holy Spirit which would write His Torah/Laws/Teachings/Will on our hearts so that we COULD do the Good Works from a willing heart.

It reminds me of the years before I had a garden and was mostly busy outdoors with other activities. In those days rain was a a hindrance to me. Now that I have a garden, and orchard, a vineyard, berry patches asparagus patches, pecan groves, pasture grasses etc I love the rain! The rain brings Life to everything I do, whereas before it brought setbacks.

This is how the Holy Spirit changes our perspective on the Laws of God! With a willing heart we now delight in His Laws like Kind David did! If you dont beleive he loved Gods Torah read Psalm 119! He was SMITTEN! It is a testimony of what Gods Holy Spirit can do to a willing heart in reference to His Laws! This is what Jesus meant in John 6:27 when he said he would give it to us. Both eternal life and the will to work at it! But similar to the old saying;

Choose a Job You Love, and You Will Never Have To Work a Day in Your Life


So when I speak fondly of His Torah/Teachings, you should know, I'm eaten up wit Love for His Will, Ways, Teachings, requirements, etc. Through the Holy Spirits influence the Torah has gone from a burden to a delight. That is what all men should hope for and is available to all who desire it, and are called!

Bless YHWH, Know and KEEP

SG