Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Grandpa]

On the other hand Grandpa?

You are saying "spiritually sacrificing/s" of one's self is a gift? That the "pressing on" to the "High Calling of God?" Is a gift of Grace? Or, "works?"
Salvation? Or Priesthood?
Is one saved more then the other?
No!
Longer?
Yes!
One is saved from the 2nd death! (eternal)
The other may be saved from the 2nd death. (everlasting)
Grace? Or "works?"
The answer to this, is BOTH!
Meaning? Grace will GET one TO the "age to come!"
ALL BETS ARE OFF, when satan gets released, after the 1,000 years, for the "gracers!" (everlasting)
Priests, are NOT in danger! (eternal)
Grace? Or "works?"

If you concern yourself with Grace then works are no concern.

If you concern yourself with works then Grace is no concern.

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Dan_473]

Very true.

This is also the point being made in the Matthew 22:7 [70ad events] and v.8 [AFTER the 70ad events], where v.8 says, "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" (necessarily referring to that which was given to be recorded AFTER the v.7-70ad events [Jesus had long been in Heaven at that point] (and this is what we see in the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation," where verse 1 is essentially saying the exact thing!)


2 Peter 3:16 -

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other [G3062 - loipas - 'rest' / 'remaining' (plural)] scriptures, unto their own destruction."

What does Peter mean by the phrase "the REST [of]/ REMAINING Scriptures"...(in the context of speaking of Paul's writings/epistles/letters, some of which are "hard-to-be-understood")... ? Why not just say, "as they do also 'the Scriptures'"?

I think he singles out Paul, because the immediate recipients the letter that Peter was currently writing had recently received letters from Paul also.

People were probably trying to work out what Paul meant exactly, similar to what is happening on this thread right now.

Then Peter goes on to say that, really, all of the scriptures can be twisted.

 

[NayborBear]

If you concern yourself with Grace then works are no concern.

If you concern yourself with works then Grace is no concern.

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Kinda get what yer sayin' here Grandpa!

I didn't choose God!

God CHOSE me!

Having said that? Is the "works" entailed into going through one's own life, one's every situation, how God "orchestrated", one's every step, from the time they were baptized, and yea, even before they were baptized, and realized that there was way MORE TO God's "Word", then they were being taught at their particular "church of stone?"
That these, which are seen as "works for salvation", not worthy enough for the "baptized Chirstian" in seeking of?
That it is merely "good enough", in that Christian's "walk" in simply "breaking ties with their past", and move on?
That there is no need, nor desire for the Christian in one's walk into (for lack of better terms) seeking discovery, of one's own "fore knowing" and "predestinating?"

That there are more "elected unto grace", then the "spirit of anti-christ", would want one, or, people to become "cognizant" of concerning them self, or themselves, or Christendom, in general?

Interesting!

 

[StrugglingTilMyReward]

Matthew 9:18 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Other translations say 'not as God originally intended'....so while Jesus does not empirically teach His followers not to keep the laws that Moses handed down, there are instances where it strikes me that He repudiates them. Recall the adulteress who was to be stoned according to Mosaic law and how Jesus intervened and did not stone her, or the requirement to wash one's hands before eating so as not to ingest anything unclean.

For myself I equate much of the OT laws to be fodder for the Pharisees....pouring over every minute detail so as to find fault in order to sit in judgement.

 

[DeighAnn]

Does the Holy Spirit cause us to turn to working real hard at our understanding of the law?

Or does the Holy Spirit cause us to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Super easy lob there that should be hit out of the park.

The Old Covenant had Law.

The New Covenant has Christ.

Which one is better?

The Word was made flesh. He came in the volume of the Book. He obeyed the law. He fulfilled the prophecy. Should we obey the law because we have been given Gifts from God?

 

[DeighAnn]

Matthew 9:18 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Other translations say 'not as God originally intended'....so while Jesus does not empirically teach His followers not to keep the laws that Moses handed down, there are instances where it strikes me that He repudiates them. Recall the adulteress who was to be stoned according to Mosaic law and how Jesus intervened and did not stone her, or the requirement to wash one's hands before eating so as not to ingest anything unclean.

For myself I equate much of the OT laws to be fodder for the Pharisees....pouring over every minute detail so as to find fault in order to sit in judgement.

They loosened the laws of Moses and added a bunch of their own laws. Look up Corbin to start you off.

 

[Dan_473]

Matthew 9:18 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Other translations say 'not as God originally intended'....so while Jesus does not empirically teach His followers not to keep the laws that Moses handed down, there are instances where it strikes me that He repudiates them. Recall the adulteress who was to be stoned according to Mosaic law and how Jesus intervened and did not stone her, or the requirement to wash one's hands before eating so as not to ingest anything unclean.

For myself I equate much of the OT laws to be fodder for the Pharisees....pouring over every minute detail so as to find fault in order to sit in judgement.

Another example might be
The law says to swear by the name of God
Jesus said not to swear.

 

[DeighAnn]

If you concern yourself with Grace then works are no concern.

If you concern yourself with works then Grace is no concern.

Romans 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[KJV1611]

Good question,

So let me work this out.

Pro 6:23 KJV For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
or NIV

Pro 6:23 NIV For these commands are a lamp, this teaching (Torah) is a light, and the corrections of discipline are the way to life,

Looks like the Torah is the Light

In the next verse;

Pro 21:20 KJV There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.

Pro 8:33 KJV Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 10:8 KJV The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

So to receive instruction or Torah is wise and there is oil in the dwelling of the wise.

First thoughts are that the Torah or instructions of the Lord are the oil.

What do you think?

I think the first part of Proverbs tells us what the commandment and the law is.

Pro 6:20 (KJV) My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

The commandment is literally the commandment or judgements or wise sayings from his earthly father. Same is true of the law of his earthly mother.

In my opinion neither are referring to the word of God nor the Holy Spirit. Although I think the parents judgements and advice were grounded in the Old Testament writings however they are not the writings themselves.

 

[Jackson123]

Yes.

Joh_15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

I agree, persecution is also fruit of faith, because faith make people hate you and persecute you

 

[DeighAnn]

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Ephesians 6:6 Not with eye service, as men pleasers but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Ephesians 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men
Ephesians 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

 

[DeighAnn]

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen

 

[DeighAnn]

John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever
But he that doeth, abideth Not he that resteth

 

[KJV1611]

John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever
But he that doeth, abideth Not he that resteth

What is the will of God that we should do that gives us everlasting life?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I think the first part of Proverbs tells us what the commandment and the law is.

Pro 6:20 (KJV) My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

The commandment is literally the commandment or judgements or wise sayings from his earthly father. Same is true of the law of his earthly mother.

In my opinion neither are referring to the word of God nor the Holy Spirit. Although I think the parents judgements and advice were grounded in the Old Testament writings however they are not the writings themselves.

Certainly more to know here

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it’s dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

 

[SimpleGardner]

What is the will of God that we should do that gives us everlasting life?

That would be Pisteou which is to "obey" by implication of believing" The essence of faith Abraham believed/trusted God, hence he obeyed; followed the command to relocate as well as kill Isaac. Believing is always tied to obedience or it is not faith.

 

[KJV1611]

That would be Pisteou which is to "obey" by implication of believing" The essence of faith Abraham believed/trusted God, hence he obeyed; followed the command to relocate as well as kill Isaac. Believing is always tied to obedience or it is not faith.

Evidence of believing is tied to obedience, belief is a gift from God, we don’t have to work for it. Why did Christ come and die for us?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Evidence of believing is tied to obedience, belief is a gift from God, we don’t have to work for it. Why did Christ come and die for us?

Just to make sure, was Abraham's obedience which resulted from believing God a gift? And if so, was his action to obey credited to that gift?

 

[DeighAnn]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Does this say what I think this says
He that despised Moses' law, that person died without mercy

BUT HOW MUCH WORSE PUNISHMENT, is supposed, for someone worthy of punishment,

UNDER THIS NEW LAW

will they receive BECAUSE THEY TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND COUNT THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT (THE COVENANT UNDER WHICH HE, JESUS, WAS SANCTIFIED) an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?

This is for sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, (super scary part doesn't say we had to understand it, no, we just have had to have RECEIVED IT) there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins,

WHAT IS SIN? Transgression of the law


not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward


for ye have need of patience that after ye have done the will of God, ye MIGHT receive the promise