Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well, the young man asks about eternal life
Matthew 19: 16. Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
I would tend to think that having eternal life is the same as being in the kingdom of God, or the kingdom of heaven, but if you have scriptures that indicate otherwise, I'll be glad to look
My sense is that most New testament writers use kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven interchangeably. Some interesting information in this link possibly
https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html
Matthew 19: 16. Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
I would tend to think that having eternal life is the same as being in the kingdom of God, or the kingdom of heaven, but if you have scriptures that indicate otherwise, I'll be glad to look
My sense is that most New testament writers use kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven interchangeably. Some interesting information in this link possibly
https://www.gotquestions.org/kingdom-heaven-God.html
I am going to ask you the same question I asked Grandpa, what is the difference between the 1st and 2nd Covenant? I ask this because I answer question based on the law of Moses in stone, the law of the kingdom through Jesus. I should be more clear with which law is which. As I don't consider myself under the law, I need to be more clear. I am sorry. But I am a law keeper and teacher. I only have a minute left before I can't change this so I will just re write it from the beginning with the specifics included.
Seems to have stumbled you up, hasn't it? 
I rest my case!
I rest my case!
The scriptures do not "stumble me up". If you feel that I did not understand what you wrote, then I invite you to explain further.
If you do not wish to explain further, then I will consider are current exchange closed and say
Peace be with you!
Matt 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
It is not easy to interprate
1. Persecute for righteousness sake inherit heaven, is that mean non persecute not inherit?
Or both persecute and non persecute in herit?
Jesus say the world Will hate you because you not from the world.
Is that posible Being Christian but love d by the world?
2. What is persecuted mean, go to prison or If one hate you, consider persecuted?
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
It is not easy to interprate
1. Persecute for righteousness sake inherit heaven, is that mean non persecute not inherit?
Or both persecute and non persecute in herit?
Jesus say the world Will hate you because you not from the world.
Is that posible Being Christian but love d by the world?
2. What is persecuted mean, go to prison or If one hate you, consider persecuted?
"Jesus HAS BECOME A SURETY of a better covenant"...
Well, I see it kinda like THIS (in part--meaning, as a partial elaboration of how I see all of it / the whole of it):
Luke 22:30,16,18 -
14 And when the hour was come, He reclined, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, “With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I say to you that never again will I eat thereof, until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
17 And having received the cup, having given thanks, He said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God shall come.” [see also Matt26:29, which it says, "...UNTIL THAT DAY when I drink it NEW *WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] YOU in My Father's kingdom"]
19 And having taken the bread, having given thanks, He broke it and gave to them, saying, “This is My body, which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me,” 20 and the cup likewise, after having supped, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you.
[...]
27 For who is greater, the one reclining or the one serving? Is not the one reclining? But I am in your midst [or, 'in the midst of you'] as the One serving.
28 Now you are those having remained with Me in My trials. 29 And I appoint to you a kingdom, as My Father appointed to Me, 30 so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel. [see also Matt19:28 (and its parallel-timing of Matt25:31-34, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [promised to Israel (see ALSO Heb8:8 and context)])]
Well, I see it kinda like THIS (in part--meaning, as a partial elaboration of how I see all of it / the whole of it):
Luke 22:30,16,18 -
14 And when the hour was come, He reclined, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, “With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I say to you that never again will I eat thereof, until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
17 And having received the cup, having given thanks, He said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God shall come.” [see also Matt26:29, which it says, "...UNTIL THAT DAY when I drink it NEW *WITH [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] YOU in My Father's kingdom"]
19 And having taken the bread, having given thanks, He broke it and gave to them, saying, “This is My body, which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me,” 20 and the cup likewise, after having supped, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is being poured out for you.
[...]
27 For who is greater, the one reclining or the one serving? Is not the one reclining? But I am in your midst [or, 'in the midst of you'] as the One serving.
28 Now you are those having remained with Me in My trials. 29 And I appoint to you a kingdom, as My Father appointed to Me, 30 so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel. [see also Matt19:28 (and its parallel-timing of Matt25:31-34, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [promised to Israel (see ALSO Heb8:8 and context)])]
...and to tack onto the end of that post, Acts 3:21, "21 whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [those particular "prophesied things" I mentioned (prophesied by the OT prophets... [not the "[NT] apostles and prophets"])]
I have recently started seeking God on this very subject over the past couple of months. I am still learning but I feel like too many disregard the Old Testament due to the "not being under the law". I find it to be absolutely fundamental in my walk with God as it parallels with the New Testament. I am not deep enough to really state any firm beliefs, but I will say this. I do believe we are still supposed to keep the Seven Festivals of the Messiah .....but I have very limited knowledge as to how to do that, hence the research. I also believe too much grace and mercy are taught (please don't take this wrong) but my point is - I do feel God still expects us to live a righteous life. Of course we will all fall short and sin as we are humans but I do feel there is something deeper to following God. He came to fullfill not abolish the law. As I said in the beginning I am just getting started in finding truth regarding this but those are my thoughts - they may be completely off from your OP ....but there they are.
-
1
- Show all
Yes, Logically speaking, It is impossible to love God and love the world.
But in every day life I my self still do sin.
That is why, when a drug dealer say he have strong faith in Jesus.
And he also say he have girl friend, + some time extra sex with other woman.
We may not doing drug like him, fo not have sex with other woman, but in our heart, we may commit adultery and It is sin, so we not must different with him. But people in town do not believe he have strong faith in Jesus.
Some time i ask my self, Paul put adultery as a list of sin that make us not inherit the kingdom
1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
How about salvation not by work, but grace?
Is that mean These verse Lie?
Or These verse not Lie,
I think back and forth
Or may be
We can not do this law of our selve but If we abide in Him He do for us.
A branch can not bear fruit of itself
Only If a brand abide to the vine It Will bear fruit.
So It is a grace If we able to bear fruit
Bear fruit is a grace because we not able to do It.
In other word, we can not work for salvation
But in every day life I my self still do sin.
That is why, when a drug dealer say he have strong faith in Jesus.
And he also say he have girl friend, + some time extra sex with other woman.
We may not doing drug like him, fo not have sex with other woman, but in our heart, we may commit adultery and It is sin, so we not must different with him. But people in town do not believe he have strong faith in Jesus.
Some time i ask my self, Paul put adultery as a list of sin that make us not inherit the kingdom
1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
How about salvation not by work, but grace?
Is that mean These verse Lie?
Or These verse not Lie,
I think back and forth
Or may be
We can not do this law of our selve but If we abide in Him He do for us.
A branch can not bear fruit of itself
Only If a brand abide to the vine It Will bear fruit.
So It is a grace If we able to bear fruit
Bear fruit is a grace because we not able to do It.
In other word, we can not work for salvation
LAW PUSHERS LIKE THE ONE WHO SAID "FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONT TITTLE SHALL IN NO WIS PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED"
YOU KNOW THE "LAW PUSHER" WHO SAID THAT?
Your post starts out with "Law pushers" claim and then you quote Jesus. By that I figure "Law pushers" are followers of Jesus.
OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. YES, JESUS WAS A LAW PUSHER. More than that. Jesus was a COVENANT CHANGER. I told Grandpa and I told someone else I will have to go see who, and please don't believe me go study for your self,
THE LAW OF MOSES IS NO MORE.
It has been replaced by a new law. Read some of it in Matt 5 where Jesus says 5 times "But I say unto you" and gives the description of the law as it was under Moses, FOLLOWED BY THE NEW COVENANT LAW UNDER JESUS, Called the law of the kingdom of God. When Jesus is telling me the law used to say BUT NOW HE SAYS, I myself just take that as law from God and I best follow it.
PLEASE HEAR ME MARCELO, IN ORDER FOR JESUS, THE LAW PUSHER, to bring in the NEW COVENANT OF LIFE AND FORGIVENESS, (o death where is thy sting?) THE OLD COVENANT OF CONDEMNATION AND DEATH HAD TO BE REMOVED, NOT THAT IT WASN'T SET TO EXPIRE ANYWAY (it was only good up until John).
There was an Old Covenant that God gave but though it was beautiful and glorious, foolish man could not or would not follow it. It had some pretty harsh parts and in the end you died. Death had a total sting. But still The law was the way you got close to God. The law was the way you gave pleasure to God. When you obeyed God and His laws God was happy. God would bless and fight for you and give you good advice and as long as the laws of God were being followed, life was great. But foolish foolish man kept thinking they knew better than God and every time things were going well (because they were following Gods laws) they would cast God and His laws aside. God would sent prophets to give them messages, but they were, and my word here, STUPID. The creator of all there is wants to lead them and they say NO we will do it our way and then when things got really bad they would realize He said if we don't follow the law we will lose His protection, and they had.
Any way, if you broke one law you broke them all and when you died you died. The only way to have life after death was to be perfect.
So God sent Himself to do what we could not do and through immense pain and humiliation and suffering and persecution and death, found a better and easier way for us to have life after death. We no longer had to work for life, He gave it to us. All we had to do was Love Him more than anything and every thing and love each other and live the life we "accepted" to live when we took Jesus as our Lord and Savior and that is to do it His ways and His ways are laws. Plain and simple.
We are born under Grace.
Not under the law of death. the law of grace. the law of the kingdom of God. Love and easy life through love and obedience.
We can not be under the law as it does no longer exist.
IT IS THE LAW OF MOSES, THE LAW OF DEATH AND CONDEMNATION, THAT NO LONGER EXISTS
We can not be bound by something that isn't. All these break one break them all, break one die a sinner,
This was a part of that law that we do not follow.
EVERY TIME THAT IS SAID, IT IS NEGATING WHAT JESUS DID FOR US. IT IS EFFECTIVELY SAYING JESUS DID NOT DO WHAT HE SAID HE DID AND WHAT DOES THAT MAKE JESUS? .
A covenant is only a covenant when it is made with blood. Jesus was that blood. So every time you bring up the law of deathlike it is still the law, you do not acknowledge the law of love that Jesus paid for with His Blood. If you would have died to make life better for your family yet they only ever brought up the hard times before you death and didn't appreciate how well off you had left them after that death, How would you feel?
SO
TO SUGGEST THAT ANY ONE IS UNDER THE LAW, OR THAT THEY BREAK ONE BREAK THEM ALL and they are condemmed to death, IN THIS DAY AND AGE IS PUTTING FORTH FALSE DOCTRINE. we ARE GOING TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT we TEACH.
I hope this clears it all up. If not let me know where I messed up and I will fix it until I get it right.
The Word of God for this "age" will be the exact same always. How we are to react to it changes. We follow Jesus to life, we leave Moses to death behind. How could we teach anyone about God and what He has done, and why we are here and what He likes and what He doesn't and what He will do and what He wont do and
How would we ever be able to tell the same His story, if a jot or tittle changed? We can't even do it without a jot or tittle changed. Truth is truth and it can't be changed. Observance can change. not the Word.
Thank you! That is currently exactly what I am doing - following someone online that is a Messianic Jew but of course an expert in Hebrew. I am finding that being told the actual meaning of things helps with my understanding. For example in one verse it took 30 minutes to explain two words. There is just so much more out there and I want to know the full meaning closest to it's orginal form - not the one lost in translation and doctrine.
-
3
- Show all