The Tabernacle in the Wilderness

[TLC209]

First of all you need to apologize for saying, "You hate pentecostals." I "DO NOT" hat oneness pentecostals. This shows me how immature you are because you don't know the operation of one's mind. You also don't know what the cults teach. And yes, the oneness pentecostals are a big time cult just like the Moromons and Jw's. I also suggest you read the follwoing site I posted which is only one of hundreds trying to educate people about the cults before they are carried away by every wind of doctrine.

https://hewhohasearslethimhear.word...on-according-to-oneness-pentecostals-refuted/

Finally, you made this "asinine statement. "You guys are both arguing over irrelevancies," This whole issue is extremely relevant. Your in the big leagues now and not messing around with little kids that don't know what their talking about. In short, grow up, especially spiritually.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Im not interested in anything you have to share. If youre going to throw insults and put people down. I dont have time for that.

 

[TLC209]

Actually Pentecostals DO NOT teach this false doctrine. So if you believe it, you should give it up.

There may be some Pentecostals who have gone off the deep end, but here is what Pentecostals (Assemblies of God) believe about Christian baptism, which is the belief of all conservative Christians:

The Ordinances of the Church
We believe that baptism in water by immersion is expected of all who have repented and believed. In so doing they declare to the world that they have died with Christ and been raised with Him to walk in newness of life (Matthew 28:19; Acts 10:47-48; Romans 6:4).

https://www.247ag.com/WAGF/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Application-Statement-of-Faith.pdf

So if it isnt pentecostals teaching this then its just bluto and eternally greatfully suggesting that pentecostals believe that. Im not sure who believes what other than people dont like others on this site.

Not worth the effort. I rather read my bible.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So if it isnt pentecostals teaching this then its just bluto and eternally greatfully suggesting that pentecostals believe that.

It is a breakaway group of Pentecostals -- Oneness Pentecostals -- who were put out of the Assemblies of God for their false and heretical teachings. They teach that baptism is essential for salvation, plus a few other false teachings.

 

[calibob]

I feel that people misunderstand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those citizens went far beyond Homosexuality. I was far beyond sexual lust. It was violence and domination beyond anything tolerated today. The men of Sodom had become so evil that roving gangs of rapists roamed the streets at night using force to subjugate victims and penises for weapons.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I dont teach anything about works. Did i tell u, u need to be circumcised?
Did I teach you need to be at church service every service?
Did I say you have to tithe?
Did I say you must give to the poor, or help the orphans and widows?
Matter of fact I dont know what works I would even speak on because I dont have anything to do with works.

What works am I preaching?

You say im not your brother, so ill leave you alone. You have more to worry about than a stranger. God bless you.

Baptism is a WORK

So YES YOU TEACH WORKS, (and if you do not teach baptism, your claiming those that do also have the same gospel as me)

What does the bible say?

NOT BY WOrKS OF RIGhteoUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE< he saved us by HIS MERCY with the WASHING of REGENERATION of the HOLY SPIRIT (not some man immersing you in water)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

awww. in the other thread you were so sweet. but here you are throwing out ad hominum attacks like they were party favors

you just lost all credibility with anyone who can read

He did that years ago!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so they are doing tag teams now?

wansvic and waggles team 1

and follow and tlc team 2

I hope they can stay out of each other's way

It is sad!!

The old the enemy of my enemy is my friend tactic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if it isnt pentecostals teaching this then its just bluto and eternally greatfully suggesting that pentecostals believe that. Im not sure who believes what other than people dont like others on this site.

Not worth the effort. I rather read my bible.

I never mentioned pentecostle in any of my words or comments

Church of Christ also teaches water baptismal regeneration.

You should think before you assume things my friend.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

so they are doing tag teams now?
wansvic and waggles team 1
and follow and tlc team 2
I hope they can stay out of each other's way

Am I in a team? When did this happen?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

awww. in the other thread you were so sweet. but here you are throwing out ad hominum attacks like they were party favors

you just lost all credibility with anyone who can read

I am not here to be sweet. Evil behaviour deserves judgement.
This is God's principle of operation. It is embedded in all He shares and declares.

21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Eze 18

24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Eze 18

22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
2 Tim 2

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good
Rom 12

11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
1 Peter 3

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;
28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
Deut 11

God is brutal. Every day from Gods creation people die, in pain and suffering. Every day injustice prevails through
evil men who are allowed to follow evil ways at their own choosing. God limits what can be done, but free will
and the elect are worth enough to allow creation to continue before all hope is lost and the world drawn to its
conclusion.

 

[Wansvic]

Am still wondering what other's thoughts are regarding comments made in relation to Acts 10:44-48:

Acts 10:47 - Peter questioned other Jews present: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? God's designed water baptism is much more than a public display, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins and is one's act of obedience that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4) We see this truth again in Peter's conversation with Jewish leaders:

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10:44-48, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

Notice the statement made by the Jewish leaders after Peter said he water baptized the group in order not to withstand God: "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am not here to be sweet. Evil behaviour deserves judgement.
This is God's principle of operation. It is embedded in all He shares and declares.

21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Eze 18

24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Eze 18

22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
2 Tim 2

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good
Rom 12

11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
1 Peter 3

27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today;
28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
Deut 11

God is brutal. Every day from Gods creation people die, in pain and suffering. Every day injustice prevails through
evil men who are allowed to follow evil ways at their own choosing. God limits what can be done, but free will
and the elect are worth enough to allow creation to continue before all hope is lost and the world drawn to its
conclusion.

so why begrudge others who are equally not as sweet? referring to others since you are addressing them basically

evil behavior eh? well, from my sofa, I would think you just placed yourself under that hammer

however the false teaching is already under judgement regarding the baptism false doctrine

 

[mailmandan]

Am still wondering what other's thoughts are regarding comments made in relation to Acts 10:44-48:

Acts 10:47 - Peter questioned other Jews present: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? God's designed water baptism is much more than a public display, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins and is one's act of obedience that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4) We see this truth again in Peter's conversation with Jewish leaders:

The question in Acts 10:47 had nothing to do with water baptism being more than a public display and procuring remission of sins. The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid these Gentiles from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

So was this baptism of repentance in Mark 1:4 (for/eis) "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins received upon repentance? *In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water (for/eis) repentance.. *Now was this baptism (for/eis) "in order to obtain" repentance? or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Of course baptized "in order to obtain repentance" makes no sense at all. Repentance PRECEDES water baptism.

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10:44-48, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

Who can forbid these Gentiles the administration of water baptism? They have received the Holy Spirit and belong to Christ, regardless of if any Jews sought to forbid them from being water baptized and accepting them as a part of the body of Christ. God has accepted these Gentiles (along with the Jews) as part of the body of Christ, so no man has the right to forbid them from being water baptized, which is the point here.

Notice the statement made by the Jewish leaders after Peter said he water baptized the group in order not to withstand God: "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

These Gentiles received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM - Acts 10:43-47) and this was referred to "repentance unto life." Acts 10:47 - Can any man, forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? The argument is conclusive; can we deny the sign (water baptism) to those who have received the thing signified? (Holy Spirit, Salvation). Surely those that have received the Spirit as well as we ought to receive baptism as well as we; for it becomes us to follow God’s indications and to take those (Gentiles) into communion with us (Jews) whom God has taken into communion with Himself. So "bring on the water" for these SAVED GENTILE CONVERTS.

 

[bluto]

Am still wondering what other's thoughts are regarding comments made in relation to Acts 10:44-48:

Acts 10:47 - Peter questioned other Jews present: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" Why question if it was ok to water baptize someone if water baptism is nothing more than a public display? God's designed water baptism is much more than a public display, it is a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins and is one's act of obedience that opens the door to eternal life. (Mark 1:4) We see this truth again in Peter's conversation with Jewish leaders:

Acts 11:16-18 - After the events noted in Acts 10:44-48, Peter explains to the Jewish leaders that he was not going to withstand God after seeing that God filled them with His Holy Spirit the same way He had them on the Day of Pentecost. What did Peter do in order not to withstand God? He administered water baptism to the Gentiles in the name of the Lord.

Notice the statement made by the Jewish leaders after Peter said he water baptized the group in order not to withstand God: "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

Actually wansvic what Peter said "militates" against the position that your church teaches. Acts 11:16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He use to say, "John baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT." Vs17, "If God therefore gave to them the same gift (singular wansvic) as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I to stand in God's way?"

Peter is saying he will not stand in God's way for giving the (singular) gift of the Holy Spirit. And vs18, "And when they hear this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, Well then, God has branted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." In other words, you repent first and then you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Notice to that speaking in tongues (as your church teaches) is not mentioned as it relates to salvation and neither does water baptism.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[7seasrekeyed]

why didn't Paul baptize when he preached the gospel if baptism must be included or not salvation as is being taught by some?

according to what I am reading in this thread from wansvic and a few others, no one was saved under Paul's teaching if they were not baptized first

Acts 10: 44-48, we have the story of Cornelius and others who were brought to Christ through Peter's message. They were saved BEFORE being baptized. this has been brought up mulitple times but we still have wansvic saying no one has answered her.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

the truth is that NO ONE IN SCRIPTURE WAS EVER BAPTIZED UNTIL AFTER THEY WERE SAVED.

baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine and has been refuted and shown to be wrong and those who teach this heresy, have been blinded and continue to insist that baptism is a part of salvation to the detriment of their own salvation

 

[Wansvic]

Actually wansvic what Peter said "militates" against the position that your church teaches. Acts 11:16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He use to say, "John baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT." Vs17, "If God therefore gave to them the same gift (singular wansvic) as He gave to us also AFTER BELIEVING IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I to stand in God's way?"

Peter is saying he will not stand in God's way for giving the (singular) gift of the Holy Spirit. And vs18, "And when they hear this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, Well then, God has branted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." In other words, you repent first and then you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Notice to that speaking in tongues (as your church teaches) is not mentioned as it relates to salvation and neither does water baptism.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You are missing the fact that in both verses presented, Peter is discussing water baptism specifically.

Peter's question in Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid that Cornelius and others should not be water baptized since God has filled them with His Spirit? He is saying is there anyone that thinks we should refuse to water baptize these people.

And secondly, Peter tells the Jewish leaders that since God had filled them with His Spirit who was he to withstand God by refusing to administer baptism. (Acts 11:17) After Peter's explanation as to why he administered water baptisms, the leaders hold their peace and glorify God, saying, "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

 

[Wansvic]

Peter is saying he will not stand in God's way for giving the (singular) gift of the Holy Spirit.

This comment does not make sense.

 

[Wansvic]

why didn't Paul baptize when he preached the gospel if baptism must be included or not salvation as is being taught by some?

according to what I am reading in this thread from wansvic and a few others, no one was saved under Paul's teaching if they were not baptized first

Acts 10: 44-48, we have the story of Cornelius and others who were brought to Christ through Peter's message. They were saved BEFORE being baptized. this has been brought up mulitple times but we still have wansvic saying no one has answered her.

Paul's epistles were written to people who had already been obedient to the instructions given on the day of church was birthed. (Acts2:1-41)

 

[Wansvic]

the truth is that NO ONE IN SCRIPTURE WAS EVER BAPTIZED UNTIL AFTER THEY WERE SAVED.

baptismal regeneration is a false doctrine and has been refuted and shown to be wrong and those who teach this heresy, have been blinded and continue to insist that baptism is a part of salvation to the detriment of their own salvation

How can one's instructions to others of the need to be obedient to commands clearly presented to those who asked what was required of them be a detriment to their salvation?

Notice what is conveyed in Acts 2:40-41:
"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then THEY THAT GLADLY RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

The message in the above scripture can not be any clearer. After complying with the instructions given three thousand people were added to the NT church.