Not By Works

[OneOfHis]

I still don't get this: why some try to differentiate between fruits and works, or between salvation and rewards ... It is convenient for their "salvation" understanding, I guess ... because in the Scriptures there is NOT any difference: rewards have to do with salvation, and fruits have to do with works ... no matter how much effort some try to put on believing they are not.

Wrong.


Works can be dead by the flesh or good by the Spirit.

Any human can work.


Fruit is what God works in us.

Good works would be an outward manifestation of what is inside already.

Many atheists can do works and they may look good to you.

But they are dead works of the flesh.

Fruits of God being worked in His children do not save or keep saved regardless.


Salvation is a gift not a reward.

We earn rewards, we cannot not earn salvation.

To belittle salvation to something that can be earned ignores Gods PERFECT standards and belittles how wicked sin really is.



Words have meaning and they matter. Context matters too, wether you like it or not.


I pray one day you will stop seeking to establish your own righteousness and submit to Gods....

 

[DeighAnn]

You have serious anger issues. Your anger/hatred is definitely not righteous indignation. You better check your heart.

2372

Then I thought, Bless their hearts, they must not know. The difference between fruits of the Spirit AND works of the flesh ESPECIALLY IF HABITUAL The meanings down below in case some of the definitions were unknown. For the Lord

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest which are these, 4202 Adultery, fornication, 162 uncleanness, 766 lasciviousness, 1495 Idolatry, 5331 witchcraft, 2189 hatred, 2054 variance, 2205 emulations, 2372 wrath, 2052 strife, 1370 seditions, 139 heresies, 5355 envyings, murders, 3178 drunkenness, 2970 revellings, and such like of the which I tell you before as I have also told you in time past that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Murder, Adultery, Variance, Wrath, Strife? shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Did you know "rush along" is wrath? I mean it feels like wrath on this side of it, most certainly a work of the flesh. But don't you, as a saved person crucify the flesh so that it die? and so the Spirit lead? what is it called when there is no Spirit leading but only flesh works? It that someone who should be representing Christians? Should they be calling into question the "saved or not saved" state of another? Why don't you go back and read your posts from the last 3 days and count up how many flesh works you have compared to Spiritual Fruits. Or better yet you go count mine and I will go count yours

No matter what man has convinced you of, God will not be mocked.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, LONGSUFFERING, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS FAITH, MEEKNESS, TEMPERANCE against such there is no law AND SINCE THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST, SHOULD STRIVE FOR GOD TO SEE THESE IN OUR SOUL AND SPIRIT.

4202 porneia, fornication, whoredom, idolatry = properly a selling off, promiscuity of any type

162 akatharsia, uncleaness, impurity

766 aselgeia licentiousness, wantoness, outrageous conduct, conduct shocking to public decency, a wanton violence, lewdness

1495 eidololatria image worship service, worship of an image (idol)

5331 pharmakeia the use of medicine drugs or spells, magic, sorcery, enchantment

2189 echthra enmity, hostility, alienation

2054 eris strife, contention, wrangling, Literally quarrel, properly a rediness to quarrel, having a contentious spirit, affection for dispute

2205 zelos eagerness, zeal, rivalry, jealousy

2372 thumos passion, an outburst of passion, wrath, RUSH ALONG, passion driven behavior

2052 eritheia rivalry, hence ambition, the seekers of followers, carnal ambition, self seeking feud, faction

1370 dichostasia standing apart, dissension, division

139 hairesis choice, opinion, a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention

5355 phthonos envy, a gruge , spite

3178 drunkenness

2970 a riotous party, revel

ENMITY the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something

HOSTILITY hostile behavior; unfriendliness or opposition.

ALIENATION the state or experience of being isolated from a group or an activity to which one should belong or in which one should be involved.

STRIFE angry or bitter disagreement over fundamental issues; conflict.

CONTENTION heated disagreement, an assertion, especially one maintained in argument.

WRANGLING engagement in a long, complicated dispute or argument

RUSH ALONG ?????

I did not know THERE WAS such a thing as wrangling. I do now. And so do you. I actually learned quite a bit and found myself once again, centered by the Word. I do so love the laws of God. As such I will put forth Gods Word, and attempt to no longer engage in long arguments or disputes. I will limit myself to 3. Please help me God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have serious anger issues. Your anger/hatred is definitely not righteous indignation. You better check your heart.

One thing you will notice with workers for.

They can not see, nor will they admit those things,, If anything, they will blame shift..

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Its easy
Your saved or your not saved
If your not saved, You can not bear fruit, You will not recieve any rewards
If your not saved, and trying to work to be saved, Those works are futile.
If you claim your saved, But think you have to work to maintain salvation, Those works to are futile
If your saved, you will have varying degrees of works in your christian life. When you do works of the spirit, you will be rewarded. But even a saved person can do works which will not bear fruit, from which their will be no reward
I hope you are open, and see the difference.

9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed
my Father's commands and remain in his love.
John 15

17 This is my command: Love each other.
18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do
not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
John 15

5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he
will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and
withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15

Compare and contrast.
One version is the version of man, ideas about salvation and being saved and good works.
The other is Jesus talking being in Him and being a part of the vine, or being separate,
unfruitful and cast out.

One is mans construction the other is Gods. Which do you accept as Gods truth and which
is the path you will follow? For me it is always Gods way and not mans. God bless you

I hope you are open, and see the difference

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The workers preach love, But they hate love.

Love fulfills the law. But they want to put you back un law

They demand you love as God loved, yet will tell you God is so weak in love

1. He can not sustain you
2. He will not keep you saved if you do not live up
3. His love (which he claims is unconditional) is actually conditional

When someone comes to you and claims love is conditional (gods love) then run from them, because they do nto understand love, and thus their truth is no truth at all.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Wrong.
Works can be dead by the flesh or good by the Spirit.
Any human can work.
Fruit is what God works in us.
Good works would be an outward manifestation of what is inside already.
Many atheists can do works and they may look good to you.
But they are dead works of the flesh.
Fruits of God being worked in His children do not save or keep saved regardless.
Salvation is a gift not a reward.
We earn rewards, we cannot not earn salvation.
To belittle salvation to something that can be earned ignores Gods PERFECT standards and belittles how wicked sin really is.
Words have meaning and they matter. Context matters too, wether you like it or not.
I pray one day you will stop seeking to establish your own righteousness and submit to Gods....

A new morality not of Gods making but mans
"Works can be dead by the flesh or good by the Spirit."

Once you accept this you have lost everything. Good is evil and evil is good.
It is no longer the action the matters but the source. Another language of this is the ends
justify the means. So if the Spirit tells you to wipe out those people, ok, but if the flesh says
give them food, it is evil.

Little wonder when a sinful heart goes to play, nothing makes any sense any more.
Listen to God speaking about a non-believer

3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God,
who came to him and said, "Cornelius!"
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked.
5 The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering
before God. Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter.
6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea."
Acts 10

God sees everything and judges with justice and love to fulfil His purposes.
We are to be like children, walking in this love and obedience and following His will.
Paul prays this

9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and
asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.
10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in
every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great
endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1

There are many who claim to be able to teach and share Gods word in authority and power and yet
constantly show their ignorance of both. Praise the Lord they stand as testimony to the need of the
Holy Spirit moving in our hearts daily and to walk abiding in the vine and staying close to His ways.
Amen

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The workers preach love, But they hate love.
Love fulfills the law. But they want to put you back un law
They demand you love as God loved, yet will tell you God is so weak in love
1. He can not sustain you
2. He will not keep you saved if you do not live up
3. His love (which he claims is unconditional) is actually conditional
When someone comes to you and claims love is conditional (gods love) then run from them, because they do nto understand love, and thus their truth is no truth at all.

Unknown to EG he shouts his loyalty very loudly.
Preaching love is hating love.

Thank you brothers and sisters in Christ that you listen to Jesus.

13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you
used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness,
so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.
20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness
Rom 6

God sustains us in His love, He seals us with the Holy Spirit and He ministers to us through
His word.

38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,
neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to
separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8

We are secure in Christs love because of the cross and His work in our hearts.
You will notice this is scripture talking not man. This is Christ calling us, not because
we are safe but because the world is dead and evil, and Jesus is the truth, the life and
the way. To those who have found love invading their hearts, we rejoice in Christ, to
the rest, I can be testify to Jesus is Lord.

I dearly wish I could embrace you all and bring you into that which Christ has given me,
but I know you each must discover for yourselves who He is and how in the Kingdom He
works through repentance and faith. Clearly there are opponents here with resolute intent
and opposition, and it is your choice. But praise the Lord, He calls His elect, and we are called
just to shine, Amen. For as a redeemed sinner turned saint, that is all we can do. Thank you
Jesus for this gift of working with you in your glorious gospel of hope and eternity, Amen.

 

[OneOfHis]

The workers preach love, But they hate love.

Love fulfills the law. But they want to put you back un law

They demand you love as God loved, yet will tell you God is so weak in love

1. He can not sustain you
2. He will not keep you saved if you do not live up
3. His love (which he claims is unconditional) is actually conditional

When someone comes to you and claims love is conditional (gods love) then run from them, because they do nto understand love, and thus their truth is no truth at all.

So true.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Cor 1

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
1 Cor 1

9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what
God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
11 The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the
thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the
thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1 Cor 2

It is a true wonder that through the cross and Jesus's words we know God loves us.
And all we need to do is listen and obey.

But in the listening is repentance, seeing evil for what it is, and seeing how we need
to follow him. It is eye opening to know some claim to know Jesus and yet have not even
begun this walk in their hearts. They declare themselves with their obvious contradictions and
denials of simple realities that Christ brings to the repentant sinner.

If ones heart is no longer broken by hurt and pain, it is hard and calloused. If the damage one
has done to others is as nothing and just forgotten and forgiven, one is in denial. To see the suffering
of others and to walk on by, but believe the God of love dwells in ones heart, one is lost and empty.

But we speak to those who listen and desire change and restitution with the Lord.
Those willing to listen and learn from the King of Kings, to lay down their lives and raise them up again
with Him is spiritual rebirth. God bless you if this is your heart, because in this heaven rejoices that a
sinner has been found and one one lost person is redeemed, Amen.

 

[Prognostic]

All we have to do is believe.

Correct! That is the most basic will of God for us.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The workers preach love, But they hate love.

Love fulfills the law. But they want to put you back un law

They demand you love as God loved, yet will tell you God is so weak in love

1. He can not sustain you
2. He will not keep you saved if you do not live up
3. His love (which he claims is unconditional) is actually conditional

When someone comes to you and claims love is conditional (gods love) then run from them, because they do nto understand love, and thus their truth is no truth at all.

"claims love is conditional"

To propose that Jesus forgives us unconditionally is universalism.
It is this complete schizophrenic statements that are extreme yet spoken as if they make sense which is
just emotional self gratification, then looking for excuses to make it rational.

I am loved and forgiven. Great. I can now do anything I want, and nothing has consequences.
Oh no, I only do what I think is ok, God just makes up the difference.

In a world of riches, where everything looks secure and we will go on to our retirement safely and die
in a home in our late age, this seems so nice. It is almost humanism, man is not that bad, just need
faith, a flash in the pan, and you are secure.

Sadly those who live like this, nothing will shake them up, because this is why they believe as they do,
it is about emotional survival, and putting together a faith in later life after traumatic disappointments
which cannot be faced or resolved. I truly understand this, and have lived with a version of this all my
life, but it is not faith or God alive in the heart of a believer. And that is why I am driven to write and
share as I do, by Gods grace, because His light never dims or goes out, and eternity is so much more
than this unresolved sinful compromise.

 

[stillness]

Jesus did not come to give us religion; he came to restore our relationship with our Heavenly Father. It’s about relationship, not religion.

You shhould tel that to the Apostle James who wrote this and died for his faith. He also explaind whay pure religion is in the folloing verse. "To visit (care for) the fayherless and widows and to keek ourselves ourselves unspoted from the world.

 

[OneOfHis]

It's crazy how people can decieve themselves into thinking they can earn what God gives freely by grace through faith....

Sorry to break it to you folks, but you couldn't hope to earn salvation even if only judging your best day.

Praise God for His mercy.

 

[stillness]

I

Stillness, You just quoted the single most FREQUENTLY misinterpreted verse in biblical history.

That verse DOES NOT ME WANT YOU THINK IT MEANS.

IT MEANS:

Do not PASS SENTENCE UPON, lest you have a Sentence Passed on YOU.

It is is legal term, where the JUDGES pass Sentence on a CONVICTED FELON.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR GOD GIVEN RESPONSIBILITY TO DISCERN RIGHT FROM WRONG.

To say YOU ARE GOING TO HELL, BECAUSE I SAW YOU SINNING. THAT IS JUDGING.

To say: YOU HAVE FALLEN FOR SOME FALSE TEACHING. THAT IS DISCERNMENT, something every genuine Mature BELIEVER,
is supposed to have.


Hebrews 4:12 (ESV)
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Deuteronomy 1:13 (NASB)
13 'Choose wise and discerning and experienced men from your tribes, and I will appoint them as your heads.'

Proverbs 10:13 (CSBBible)
13 Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning,
but a rod is for the back of the one who lacks sense.

Proverbs 16:21 (CSBBible)
21 Anyone with a wise heart is called discerning,
and pleasant speech increases learning.

1 Corinthians 11:31 (YLT)
31 for if ourselves we were discerning, we would not be being judged,

Ephesians 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 For you were once darkness, but now ⌊you are⌋ light in the Lord. Walk as children of light—
9 for the fruit of the light ⌊results⌋ in all goodness, righteousness, and truth—
10 discerning what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 Don’t participate in the fruitless works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Psalm 119:66 (HCSB)
66 Teach me good judgment and discernment, for I rely on Your commands.

Proverbs 23:23 (NJB)
23 Purchase truth—never sell it— wisdom, discipline, and discernment.

Philippians 1:9 (ASV)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment;

Hebrews 5:14 (ESV)
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.


DO NOT CALL discernment Judging. Learn to tell the difference.

I REPEAT: Judging, only means to PASS SENTENCE UPON.

I knew what the verse ment when i wrote it. And its what we are refering that controversial and others here are not juging others but themselves.

 

[BillG]

Its easy

Your saved or your not saved

If your not saved, You can not bear fruit, You will not recieve any rewards

If your not saved, and trying to work to be saved, Those works are futile.

If you claim your saved, But think you have to work to maintain salvation, Those works to are futile

If your saved, you will have varying degrees of works in your christian life. When you do works of the spirit, you will be rewarded. But even a saved person can do works which will not bear fruit, from which their will be no reward

I hope you are open, and see the difference.

Hi bro.

This is my take on this.
I think it agrees with yours.

Works are an issue but the reasons are.

We only need to look at Galatians 5.

Talking about liberty, love and walking in the spirit.

Galatians 5:13-15
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

So following on we see Paul contrasting walking in the flesh and not the spirit.
If we do not walk in the spirit then we obviously walk in the flesh.

Now if we walk in the spirit then we crucify the flesh.

For ourselves that is a good.
One that is for us.

But as we decrease in the flesh then our works increase.
Works of the Spirit as a result of fruit growing. (Side note everyone it's not fruits but fruit)

Such works will not be burned up.
Works outside of the fruit will be burned up.

For me the reason being

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

LOVE, LOVE AND MORE LOVE.

If it ain't out of love then it's useless and nothing but kindling.

 

[stillness]

You can only speak for yourself. Your lack of Love, hardness of heart and refusal to hear.

I speak against false dogmas peddled by religionists.....get your facts straight.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You shhould tel that to the Apostle James who wrote this and died for his faith. He also explaind whay pure religion is in the folloing verse. "To visit (care for) the fayherless and widows and to keek ourselves ourselves unspoted from the world.

Yep. Thats true religion

The only issue is religion will never save anyone, Only Grace will save people..

Religion apart from salvation is self righteousness. Which will only lead to despair when you realise you missed the most important part.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi bro.

This is my take on this.
I think it agrees with yours.

Works are an issue but the reasons are.

We only need to look at Galatians 5.

Talking about liberty, love and walking in the spirit.

Galatians 5:13-15
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

So following on we see Paul contrasting walking in the flesh and not the spirit.
If we do not walk in the spirit then we obviously walk in the flesh.

Now if we walk in the spirit then we crucify the flesh.

For ourselves that is a good.
One that is for us.

But as we decrease in the flesh then our works increase.
Works of the Spirit as a result of fruit growing. (Side note everyone it's not fruits but fruit)

Such works will not be burned up.
Works outside of the fruit will be burned up.

For me the reason being

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

LOVE, LOVE AND MORE LOVE.

If it ain't out of love then it's useless and nothing but kindling.

Amen bro.. I agree!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can only speak for yourself. Your lack of Love, hardness of heart and refusal to hear.

Same can be said of you.

 

[BillG]

We also need to remember.

Works do not just encompass what we do in helping others.
Jesus seperated the sheep and the goats.
If you did not do to the least of these then you did not unto me.

That is where the rubber hits the road.
We do it for Jesus, that is as result of fruit in us.

But we also need to remember works also includes what we teach.
These works will be burned up.

1 Corinthians 3:5-16

Watering, Working, Warning
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?