Jesus say: to be save you have to do good

[Jackson123]

No, it isn't hell. Men don't cast men into hell. It's part of the illustration showing the uselessness of the saved person who doesn't abide in Jesus.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Thank for your inside brother.

Yes man not cast man into hell.

But I believe this is analogy

I qoute what is analogy

a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/
noun

1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
   "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"
   • a correspondence or partial similarity.
     "the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"
   • a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.
     "works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature". So Jesus not say a man cast other man to hell, but but if man do not abide in Him, will be burn as/like branch to the fire . Similar to branch that the gardener cast into fire.

 

[JohnRH]

Thank for your inside brother.

Yes man not cast man into hell.

But I believe this is analogy

I qoute what is analogy

a·nal·o·gy
/əˈnaləjē/
noun

1. a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
   "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"
   • a correspondence or partial similarity.
     "the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"
   • a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.
     "works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature". So Jesus not say a man cast other man to hell, but but if man do not abide in Him, will be burn as/like branch to the fire . Similar to branch that the gardener cast into fire.

Hell isn't the analogy; uselessness is.
A withered, non fruit-bearing branch is useless. So is an eternally secure child of God who doesn't abide in Christ.

 

[Jackson123]

Paul is telling the brothers in Christ not to go to court against each other before unjust/unbelievers/unrighteous. These people aren't inheriting the kingdom of God and brothers have no business subjecting their internal disputes to these absolutely unqualified judges. This group of unbelievers consist of fornicators, idolaters, ... thieves, ... etc., who will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The internal disputes in the church are only to be brought before those who are inheriting the kingdom - the brethren. That's the point of the passage.

Later on, in chapter 15, Paul says that the brother's flesh will also not inherit the kingdom of God (15:50). When a person gets saved, their flesh doesn't get saved. In their flesh "dwelleth no good thing", Romans 7:18. So when a brother who wills not to steal and hates stealing strays and commits theft, it's no longer him that steals but sin that dwells in his flesh, Rom. 7:17. If he dies before he repents he goes straight home to be with the Lord, leaving his thieving flesh behind.




Lucifer was an angel. There's no sacrifice or salvation for angels, so that's a non-issue.



Adam wasn't saved before he sinned, because he had no sin to be saved from. He didn't have any salvation to loose when he did sin. And he didn't loose his son/offspring of God status either. All people, saved and unsaved, are the offspring of God; only born again people are children of God by faith in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:26). So don't try to use pre-sin Adam as an example of a child of God loosing his salvation.

Thank for your argument, it is good argument.

Seem to me you believe if Christian commit sin, for example murder or stealing, if he not repent, his spirit still go to heaven, only his body go to hell, am I correct?

2. You believe Adam was not saved before he sin, do you believe he save before he sin? And lose his save status after sin

Is unsave mean lose the relation with God ?

Save or saved mean have relation with God ?

 

[Jackson123]

Hell isn't the analogy; uselessness is.
A withered, non fruit-bearing branch is useless. So is an eternally secure child of God who doesn't abide in Christ.

I know hell isnt analogy, but the sentence

As/or like a withered is analogy

As= similar to

 

[JohnRH]

Thank for your argument, it is good argument.

Seem to me you believe if Christian commit sin, for example murder or stealing, if he not repent, his spirit still go to heaven, only his body go to hell, am I correct?

2. You believe Adam was not saved before he sin, do you believe he save before he sin? And lose his save status after sin

Is unsave mean lose the relation with God ?

Save or saved mean have relation with God ?

The body goes back to the dust.
Adam never needed to be saved before the fall.
He didn't have a "saved status" to loose. He had an "offspring of God" status; and he never lost it.
Unsaved means not having been saved.
What kind of relation are you referring to?

 

[fredoheaven]

I agree, we have to confess our sins and ask forgiveness and repent

Not only repent 1 years than back to steal

If we back to steal than we need to repent again

Then it seems you heart is not right before God? That is why a born again believers is not born again to steal. I mean why back to steal? if you say repent, you need to change your mind. Did you not that my friend? that means you need to stop doing it, the Holy Spirit will help you. If you have KLEPTOMANIA, the link below may help...read them if you may. thanks

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kleptomania/symptoms-causes/syc-20364732

 

[Jackson123]

Then it seems you heart is not right before God? That is why a born again believers is not born again to steal. I mean why back to steal? if you say repent, you need to change your mind. Did you not that my friend? that means you need to stop doing it, the Holy Spirit will help you. If you have KLEPTOMANIA, the link below may help...read them if you may. thanks

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kleptomania/symptoms-causes/syc-20364732

So you believe we have to repent to be save, am I correct?

That what I am agree brother.

But if a man accepting Jesus as a savior, repent from stealing for 10 yeas not stealing than he back to steal. Do you believe he is save?

 

[fredoheaven]

Then it seems you heart is not right before God? That is why a born again believers is not born again to steal. I mean why back to steal? if you say repent, you need to change your mind. Did you not that my friend? that means you need to stop doing it, the Holy Spirit will help you. If you have KLEPTOMANIA, the link below may help...read them if you may. thanks

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kleptomania/symptoms-causes/syc-20364732

Sorry man, i mean if one have Kleptomania...(too personal).

 

[Adstar]

Thank for your argument, it is good argument.

Seem to me you believe if Christian commit sin, for example murder or stealing, if he not repent, his spirit still go to heaven, only his body go to hell, am I correct?

2. You believe Adam was not saved before he sin, do you believe he save before he sin? And lose his save status after sin

Is unsave mean lose the relation with God ?

Save or saved mean have relation with God ?

Before Adam sinned He needed no saving... One needs to be saved if one is headed to Hell.. We are being saved by Jesus because we have sinned and are heading to Hell..

 

[fredoheaven]

So you believe we have to repent to be save, am I correct?

That what I am agree brother.

But if a man accepting Jesus as a savior, repent from stealing for 10 yeas not stealing than he back to steal. Do you believe he is save?

Hmm, God only knows the heart of man. God is a better judge than me yet the scripture is very clear, when we are saved, we are saved for eternity. Since a saved is still in his flesh, he had something to worry. Flesh is against the Spirit and since we are still here in the earth, we have an adversary, the Devil tempting us to do it. But you need to know that temptation itself is not a sin. It is giving in that becomes sin. As for the question granting after 10 years he steal back is he steal saved? Again, the his standing with God is righteous not because what he had done but because of what Christ done. What God see's is not our self-righteousness but God's righteousness by faith so that man is still save. His bad deeds, however, looses him his rewards in heaven during the Judgement Day of Christ.

This judgement is not about losing or gaining of salvation but rather obtaining or losing of rewards...in the form of Crowns

James 1:12 - Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

2 Timothy 4:8 - Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

1 Peter 5:4 - And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Cor. 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Thess. 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

 

[Guojing]

So you believe we have to repent to be save, am I correct?

That what I am agree brother.

But if a man accepting Jesus as a savior, repent from stealing for 10 yeas not stealing than he back to steal. Do you believe he is save?

Do you spend time every evening reviewing all that you have done during the day, and making sure you confess all the sins you have done to the Lord in prayer?

 

[garee]

Hmm, God only knows the heart of man. God is a better judge than me yet the scripture is very clear, when we are saved, we are saved for eternity. Since a saved is still in his flesh, he had something to worry. Flesh is against the Spirit and since we are still here in the earth, we have an adversary, the Devil tempting us to do it. But you need to know that temptation itself is not a sin. It is giving in that becomes sin. As for the question granting after 10 years he steal back is he steal saved? Again, the his standing with God is righteous not because what he had done but because of what Christ done. What God see's is not our self-righteousness but God's righteousness by faith so that man is still save. His bad deeds, however, looses him his rewards in heaven during the Judgement Day of Christ.

This judgement is not about losing or gaining of salvation but rather obtaining or losing of rewards...in the form of Crowns

James 1:12 - Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

2 Timothy 4:8 - Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

1 Peter 5:4 - And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Cor. 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Thess. 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

I have changed my view point from that view point.

I see it a little differently .Looking at a parable in Mathew 20 and a teaching in Philippians 2

The final judgment is the execution, death according to the letter of the law and the rising to receive our new bodies. All believers receive the same reward for the works Christ works in them, a pennies worth eternal life. The crown of a imputed righteousness .

But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen Mathew 20:10-15

Philippians 2:12-14 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

If it is Christ working in us, with us to both will and perform it to His good pleasure why would we murmur as in I deserve more crowns or what ever is used to represent a imputed righteousness of Christ.. or like Paul and if you have freely received it why boast as if not..

It would seem to be a lesson of humility and get to work I am right with you . slow down

 

[crossnote]

Are you here to muddle what I post? You weekll know that any time it is mentioned that sin is breaking the law thus we should do our best to obey it according to the teaching of Jesus, it is called by the blind, being under the law.

Now young man, you have invited me not to post if I do not agree with c ertain aspects of posts with political leanings added to ÇGod's Word, so now invite you to read anything you like, but do the same as you dictate. I woulds say preach but you do not do such.

It seems you hae been lurking awaiting your opposrtunity to troll into my wosrds.....repititons sosf understandg by the Holy Ghost..

May God bless you with longsuffering and dpatience and love, amen.

Please don't give me your phony 'God bless you' after what you just wrote.
I see you can't answer my question regarding your false charge of many teach we do nothing once we are saved.

Believe me, if I was lurking 'awaiting opportunity to troll your words', I wouldn't have time to challenge all the errors I see. Actually, I try avoiding your posts because of that (I haven't even addressed you in a while) although your latest was quite glaring.

 

[JaumeJ]

You must work harder to avoid my posts. Oh, I forgot, that is works...I just cannot win for losing it seems. God bless you, and know this, I donot condemn anyone, and when we are in the presence of our Savior I forgive all, handing them over to His judgemnetn only so when you are blessed by one such as I, you shuld not balk, ever………. No avoic, by all means. You will be better off for it.

 

[garee]

So you believe we have to repent to be save, am I correct?

That what I am agree brother.

But if a man accepting Jesus as a savior, repent from stealing for 10 yeas not stealing than he back to steal. Do you believe he is save?

Yes as new creatures we must repent in order to acknowledge our salvation that Christ began in us ...moved by a faith that comes by hearing what the Spirit says to the churches to n both will and do his good pleasure.. . If he did not first turn us by giving us ears to hear as the first experience of His love. . how could we then in turn. . . . turn to comfort our own selves. (repent) He must to the first work of His faithfulness. .

Takes two to tangle or turn. He is much stronger than flesh and blood As shown with Jacob before the name change to give glory to God. .Repent, and do the first works. . . God working in us so that we can believe God as he works in us Again as we are yoked with him.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation2

Jeremiah seems to set the doctrine of repentance .First he turns us so that we then after being turned can turn and comfort( repent) our selves, bearing the reproach of our childish nature knowing our sin is atoned for reestablishing us, directing us to the right path, the light path .

Jeremiah 31:18-20 King James Version (KJV) I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hmm, God only knows the heart of man. God is a better judge than me yet the scripture is very clear, when we are saved, we are saved for eternity. Since a saved is still in his flesh, he had something to worry. Flesh is against the Spirit and since we are still here in the earth, we have an adversary, the Devil tempting us to do it. But you need to know that temptation itself is not a sin. It is giving in that becomes sin. As for the question granting after 10 years he steal back is he steal saved? Again, the his standing with God is righteous not because what he had done but because of what Christ done. What God see's is not our self-righteousness but God's righteousness by faith so that man is still save. His bad deeds, however, looses him his rewards in heaven during the Judgement Day of Christ.

This judgement is not about losing or gaining of salvation but rather obtaining or losing of rewards...in the form of Crowns

James 1:12 - Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

2 Timothy 4:8 - Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

1 Peter 5:4 - And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

1 Cor. 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

1 Thess. 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

"when we are saved, we are saved for eternity"

If I was on the road across a desert, one long straight road, and its name was the eternity road,
stepping on the road would mean I am on the road to eternity, not that I had reached eternity.
Now with all the helps, aids, training, transformation and empowerment for me to travel down
this road, if I do nothing and stay were I am I am literally denying it all, because I am not using
the very gifts I have been given to enable me to travel down the road.

Now some will say the phrase we now have eternal life is we have arrived in eternity now.
But clearly we are on earth, and seem to act and behave in exactly the same ways as before.
And if some can gain this position and then go away and become literally the enemies of the
way, with all their beings, this arriving is not just being there as a one off visit.

So Jesus calls himself "the way". He talks about obeying His words, putting into practise His
teaching, following, obeying, loving, growing in Him, like a new born child growing up to maturity.

He uses the analogy His word is a seed that takes root and grows into a massive tree, that is so
huge you cannot imagine it.

So the kingdom is not passive but dynamic and about growth and change, transformation and the
reality of love and hope in peoples lives.

The law of Moses is even more worked through, though in Christ we have the relationship with God
that fulfils all the images. But for God to create the images they have real value and are important
for us to acknowledge and see their spiritual significance, except this whole subject is so vast it
is impossible to do more than just point at the depths of Gods work. Amen. God bless you

 

[garee]

Please don't give me your phony 'God bless you' after what you just wrote.
I see you can't answer my question regarding your false charge of many teach we do nothing once we are saved.

Believe me, if I was lurking 'awaiting opportunity to troll your words', I wouldn't have time to challenge all the errors I see. Actually, I try avoiding your posts because of that (I haven't even addressed you in a while) although your latest was quite glaring.

I would offer. Its nothing we do of our own self. . . without being yoked with the Spirit of Christ who lives in us , working to both will and do his good pleasure as a imputed righteousness..

Some might say that is nothing. But it seems the Holy Spirit would encourage them to get moving and stop the grumbling, murmuring and complaining as did the apostles on mysterious occasions when there was confusion (who is the greatest alpha dog) .Even with Jesus standing in the middle.

Philippians 2:12-14 (ERV) My dear friends, you always obeyed what you were taught. Just as you obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important for you to obey now that I am not there. So you must continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. Do this with fear and respect for God. Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it. Do everything without complaining or arguing

He promises. We all receive the same reward. . eternal life. He will not forget the good works we offer in respect to His name or power. (a pennies worth) Some say it is nothing, especially today. . some trod it under foot.

And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.Mathew 20:10-16

 

[Marcelo]

Matthew 19:16-26 King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Why Paul say salvation by faith not by work

Jesus, while on Earth, mostly preached the law of Moses to the Jews. After the resurrection, the Lord used Paul to preach salvation by grace through faith.

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus, Yeshua, taught all, Jew and Gentile, the Gospel. There is only one Gospel. He also clarified how we are to obey after receiving the free gift of Salvation, for obedience is not some kind of favor to our Father; it is our due.

Anyone who does not understand the Ten Commandments are contined i love is blinded by the vail of Moses. Anyone who thinks that obeying the law would include all 622 laws has very distorted understanding of what it means when Jesus teaches He has come to complete the law(fulfill it), not to destroy it.

If you believe you love yet you condemn another for breaking a law, you are not extending the mercy you have received to others. Pry for all sinners, especially the family in Jesus. Do this as your nature and you will understand the law under grace. Do not teach against any law which builds to love for God is Love......All blessings in Jesus, Yeshua, the Jew first and then the Greek(Gentile.)

 

[Jackson123]

Before Adam sinned He needed no saving... One needs to be saved if one is headed to Hell.. We are being saved by Jesus because we have sinned and are heading to Hell..

Because he save before sin, but after sin the save status is change isn't it?