The post is in reference to another post that mentioned a bartender. A bartender serves spirits such as vodka, gin, etc. Apparently a lame attempt at humor on my part. 
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
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I got it and liked it haha
I have a sensitive spot for the innocent, the meek and the gentle, all of which you are not, thus I feel no emotions of sensitivity towards you or because of you. I’m secure in my eternal salvation in Christ, as I know many others here on CC are as well, and for that I always rejoice. Peace be with you in your journey.
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So you know what I think of your FALSE theology, especially that one can lose your salvation. That Debate is freebie, but from now on, if you persist, I will have to start the Divisive Count. You mentioned the REWARDS. You do KNOW SALVATION is NOT A REWARD, it is a FREE GIFT. Crowns are the REWARDS.
Here are the CROWNS YOU CAN WIN:
IMPERISHABLE CROWN
CROWN OF REJOICING
CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
CROWN OF GLORY AND HONOR
CROWN OF LIFE
IN THE APOCRYPHA
CROWN OF JOYFULNESS
CROWN OF THE AGED
CROWN OF WISDOM
4 Maccabees 17:15 (NRSV)
15 Reverence for God was victor and gave the crown to its own athletes.
Paul made several references to the Olympic style of his day. He said we should run to win the race, and we will receive Crowns.
I repeat, that SALVATION is NOT A REWARD or A CROWN. It is a FREE GIFT.
John 4:10 (NCV)
10 Jesus said, “If you only knew the free gift of God and who it is that is asking you for water, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.“
Romans 5:15-16 (NJB)
15 There is no comparison between the free gift and the offence. If death came to many through the offence of one man, how much greater an effect the grace of God has had, coming to so many and so plentifully as a free gift through the one man Jesus Christ!
16 Again, there is no comparison between the gift and the offence of one man. One single offence brought condemnation, but now, after many offences, have come the free gift and so acquittal!
Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So you cannot lose your FREE GIFT OF GOD, but however you can lose your CROWNS
Revelation 3:11 (ASV)
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.
One more Proof that SALVATION is a FREE GIFT that cannot be lost:
Philippians 4:3 (HCSB)
3 Yes, I also ask you, true partner, to help these women who have contended for the gospel at my side, along with Clement and the rest of my coworkers whose names are in the book of life.
WHEN WERE THEY WRITTEN THERE ? ? ?
Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.
Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
Here are the CROWNS YOU CAN WIN:
IMPERISHABLE CROWN
CROWN OF REJOICING
CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
CROWN OF GLORY AND HONOR
CROWN OF LIFE
IN THE APOCRYPHA
CROWN OF JOYFULNESS
CROWN OF THE AGED
CROWN OF WISDOM
4 Maccabees 17:15 (NRSV)
15 Reverence for God was victor and gave the crown to its own athletes.
Paul made several references to the Olympic style of his day. He said we should run to win the race, and we will receive Crowns.
I repeat, that SALVATION is NOT A REWARD or A CROWN. It is a FREE GIFT.
John 4:10 (NCV)
10 Jesus said, “If you only knew the free gift of God and who it is that is asking you for water, you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.“
Romans 5:15-16 (NJB)
15 There is no comparison between the free gift and the offence. If death came to many through the offence of one man, how much greater an effect the grace of God has had, coming to so many and so plentifully as a free gift through the one man Jesus Christ!
16 Again, there is no comparison between the gift and the offence of one man. One single offence brought condemnation, but now, after many offences, have come the free gift and so acquittal!
Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So you cannot lose your FREE GIFT OF GOD, but however you can lose your CROWNS
Revelation 3:11 (ASV)
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.
One more Proof that SALVATION is a FREE GIFT that cannot be lost:
Philippians 4:3 (HCSB)
3 Yes, I also ask you, true partner, to help these women who have contended for the gospel at my side, along with Clement and the rest of my coworkers whose names are in the book of life.
WHEN WERE THEY WRITTEN THERE ? ? ?
Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.
Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
Romans 9:15 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth but of God that sheweth mercy.
33 As it is written behold I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
I am a servant of God. Therefore I serve Him. God loves His children that love Him and serve Him.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I have never one said that I believe that salvation is anything but a gift. I am wondering how many times I have been falsely accused of it. I wonder how many times I have been forced to deny it. When you falsely accuse someone of something you know isn't true, is that bearing false witness or is it just flat out lying? Whos spirit is that ofYou find me and give me the number of a post where I have ever said that. Let me know. If you don't I will know you have been you are either intentionally trying to show the world that I have a belief I do not have and have never had or you are intentionally bearing false witness. May the Lord keep me in all thy ways. May the Lord hear my prayer. Gods Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth but of God that sheweth mercy.
33 As it is written behold I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
I am a servant of God. Therefore I serve Him. God loves His children that love Him and serve Him.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I have never one said that I believe that salvation is anything but a gift. I am wondering how many times I have been falsely accused of it. I wonder how many times I have been forced to deny it. When you falsely accuse someone of something you know isn't true, is that bearing false witness or is it just flat out lying? Whos spirit is that ofYou find me and give me the number of a post where I have ever said that. Let me know. If you don't I will know you have been you are either intentionally trying to show the world that I have a belief I do not have and have never had or you are intentionally bearing false witness. May the Lord keep me in all thy ways. May the Lord hear my prayer. Gods Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Romans 11:17-24 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and YOU stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he WILL NOT spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be CUT OFF 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
in, out, In, out
in, out, In, out
I only see people being surprised, i don't see the eternal security proponents here.
Why should an eternal security believer get surprised by Christ's righteous judgments?
Matt 25:
31When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.
34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’
40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Why should an eternal security believer get surprised by Christ's righteous judgments?
Matt 25:
31When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.
34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’
40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
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Please reread my post, did I say you said salvation was not a free gift? I was giving you my beliefs in a nut shell. I am surprised that you DO understand that it is a FREE GIFT of GOD. Most in the camp of Losing their Salvation, think Salvation is a reward for good works. I do think you give far more Credit to others for being a CHRISTIAN, than there really is.
In the Parable of the GATES, in MAT. 7, everyone of those going thru those two gates, THINKS that they are a Christian. NON-believers are not even mentioned in that parable. But the shock of all shocks will be the MANY on the broad road that leads to the destruction of Hades/Hell, hear HIM say: "I NEVER KNEW YOU." Those literally going to Heaven have entered thru the Narrow Gate of receiving Him as LORD meaning Master. IT SAYS only a FEW FIND IT. That is my understanding of the Parable of the GATES.
Why do I think that the Many have for various reasons been deceived into going thru the WRONG GATE? I used to be one of those myself. Not until after my third attempt a suicide that last week of 1977, did I finally REALIZE I was NEVER SAVED. Wave, after Wave of GUILT for my whole Lifestyle washed over me, and I literally cried for hours. No one in the Church I was raised in, ever mentioned BORN AGAIN. No One ever taught me a sinner's Prayer. I believe the HOLY SPIRIT gave me that Prayer, when I needed it the MOST.
I prayed from the bottom of my heart, meaning every word of it. "Lord forgive me! Lord forgive me! If you have a purpose for my life, then YOU will have to come into my heart and do it through me. Because I can't live like that, and I am making a totally mess of my life." I meant that prayer with my whole being. I know I was giving HIM complete control of my life, surrendering all to JESUS. I KNEW HE WOULD COME INTO MY HEART AND DO HIS WILL, FROM THAT NIGHT ON. I NEVER DOUBTED HIM. I have seen so many miracles in my life, how could I ever forsake HIM. HE DID IT ALL THROUGH ME. I am at AWE, when I think back on how HE USED ME, because I was willing out of LOVE FOR HIM, to SURRENDER ALL TO HIM.
You don't need to study to realize that Christ came to save the world from sin and effects of sin which is eternal death. Salvation is the main objective and it is inferred to many things including; crown of life, other crowns, victory, glory, eternal life, rewards. All these things means salvation.
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You are focusing on the wrong color and there are no colored seats in heaven. You are trying to look at spiritual things in a literal sense. The process that is happening there is judgement of the Nations and the outcome is a surprise to everyone meaning that there is no such thing as eternal security.
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Doesn't it bother you that you have to change the obvious meaning of some verse to make your THEORY fit ? ? ?
Such as This Verse:
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
OR THIS VERSE:
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
OR THIS VERSE:
2 John 1:2 (HCSB)
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.
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