Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

Morning Mr Garden

Good Morning DeighAnn.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Greetings FHS,

You bring up some very pertinent points!

Sadly, in the faceless nature of these forums we do not know for certain who we are speaking with. If I were to guess, based on the immaturity of attitude, I would say some of these may be juvenile children whose parents are not paying close enough attention to what they are doing online. They are not our children, so it is not our place to discipline them. No matter how much they declare their age or how many pictures they send, we have only their juvenile behavior to base our estimations. I am going with juvenile. Even if they are adult physically they do not belong with the adults in their conversations, as mentally and spiritually they are juvenile.

I do not mean to cast a dim light on most juveniles though. They are young and growing into adulthood. It may seem hard to speak this way, but there is an expectation of keeping with good taste and propriety in conversations, especially those regarding righteousness. Even if someone was raised by wolves, after coming to Christ we all know there is a blessing of conviction of those things we once did not consider, but now must.

If we ask ourselves the qualifications of; "2 or 3 gathered together in My Name" It is immediately obvious to our new understanding that a belligerent juvenile would not count towards that effort. So, in the interest of blessed fellowship that element must be "left out".

I also completly agree with your observation that these juvenile attitudes would sort themselves out right away in person to person settings. They would likely not dare to show in the first place as life has a way of "revealing" where we stand or fall amongst sincere beleivers. Sincere beleivers who are wise enough not to fall for the "tolerance doctrine" the adversary has manipulated so many good people to relent under. No, in a home setting the "old rules" of "decorum" or "not putting up with juvenile behavior" rule and are swiftly enforced!

I have visited other threads where the "juveniles" reign supreme! It is their backyard clubhouse and you better not go "Mature Christian" in there or they will turn and rend you to pieces. We need to wake up to the realities of whose who and whats what so that we may pray aright.

Bless YHWH! Know and Keep

Good morning SG,

I am slightly conflicted. It is such a blessing to publically witness to Jesus and His work in our
hearts. So learning the language, and how to respond in Jesus, is fantastic.

It hurts, is difficult, and some are just worthy of being blanked. But knowing what they are
writing is critical to seeing the debate. Good ideas and expressions are infectious, so let us
be infectious for Christ, because working faith is our eternal walk.

 

[NayborBear]

Right, I don't worry.

I don't understand what you mean by
Cotton and polyester blends? PFFFFFFT! 

do you mean the commandant regarding mixing linen and wool is not worth discussing?


Suppose I was cleaning out my closet, and I found this
https://www.etsy.com/listing/656784...uery=linsey+woolsey&ref=sr_gallery-1-10&frs=1
And I knew that there was a poor family in my neighborhood where something like this could be used. But I also knew that they were nice Hebrew Roots folks. I probably wouldn't offer this to them because I wouldn't want their conscience to be defiled. I'd just give it to a thrift store or someone that I thought wouldn't care.

This is an anonymous forum, and I'm not currently giving away any clothes. But I do hear people talking about dividing the law into ceremonial, civil, and moral categories.

I don't think humans can divide the law that way. But I'm willing to consider, if someone will go through why this particular commandment is in one category or another.

Or maybe you're saying that only God can tell you what commandments are in the moral law category. And once God tells you, you are not to share it with other people, it is a kind of secret knowledge. And it must never be written down, and definitely never written down and shared with other people on a forum like this. Is that what you're saying?

If you do this?
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

You will "instinctively" by way of "Spiritual persuasion", do that which is not only civil, but also ceremonial, and of course moral.
But, you left out one. OFFERINGS! Like say the "offering of firstfruits. (IMPORTANT!)" Is not the "gift" of the Holy Spirit, where which we as believers start baring "fruit?" So, should not one who has these fruits OFFER the firstfruit back TO the ONE who gave it us as a "gift?" For EACH fruit? (hint. It's not Christ we are to offer these firstfruits to)
Ask God! "Take any firstfruits, I may have that are ready!" It's that simple!

Which is why I said. If you do this? Articles of clothing will be the furthest thing from your mind you needs trouble yourself with.

Our Father LOVES us with a loving kindness which endures forever!

After having done this? Onlookers may start ACCUSING YOU of being Hebrew roots!

Romans 11
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

This is what I see you, and others doing. Though, you may not be aware of it. Er perhaps, you are?
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Not because Christ is Christ? NAY! But BECAUSE? GOD IS GOD!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Some days we engage, some days we walk away. God told us how it would be. Should we expect different. Remember some are blinded for EVERYONEs benefit. Who are we to say what is going on with whom. Teach Gods Words and ways is the best we can do.

Thank you for your encouragement, I appreciate all your contributions.
I must confess though a lack of time and opportunity to engage too fully, it is so time consuming.

14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am"
Exodus 3

Being with Him, listening to Him, knowing His way is life and glorious, Amen.

 

[gb9]

Greetings FHS,

You bring up some very pertinent points!

Sadly, in the faceless nature of these forums we do not know for certain who we are speaking with. If I were to guess, based on the immaturity of attitude, I would say some of these may be juvenile children whose parents are not paying close enough attention to what they are doing online. They are not our children, so it is not our place to discipline them. No matter how much they declare their age or how many pictures they send, we have only their juvenile behavior to base our estimations. I am going with juvenile. Even if they are adult physically they do not belong with the adults in their conversations, as mentally and spiritually they are juvenile.

I do not mean to cast a dim light on most juveniles though. They are young and growing into adulthood. It may seem hard to speak this way, but there is an expectation of keeping with good taste and propriety in conversations, especially those regarding righteousness. Even if someone was raised by wolves, after coming to Christ we all know there is a blessing of conviction of those things we once did not consider, but now must.

If we ask ourselves the qualifications of; "2 or 3 gathered together in My Name" It is immediately obvious to our new understanding that a belligerent juvenile would not count towards that effort. So, in the interest of blessed fellowship that element must be "left out".

I also completly agree with your observation that these juvenile attitudes would sort themselves out right away in person to person settings. They would likely not dare to show in the first place as life has a way of "revealing" where we stand or fall amongst sincere beleivers. Sincere beleivers who are wise enough not to fall for the "tolerance doctrine" the adversary has manipulated so many good people to relent under. No, in a home setting the "old rules" of "decorum" or "not putting up with juvenile behavior" rule and are swiftly enforced!

I have visited other threads where the "juveniles" reign supreme! It is their backyard clubhouse and you better not go "Mature Christian" in there or they will turn and rend you to pieces. We need to wake up to the realities of whose who and whats what so that we may pray aright.

Bless YHWH! Know and Keep

a few months ago, followhisteps ( peterjens ) said this place was full of " old bitter retired people ", so maybe you guys should get together and decide what is going on...

 

[NayborBear]

THE SHADOW
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment

THE ARRIVAL
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be IN DANGER OF HELL FIRE. WHAT ???
Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee
Matthew 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
In the spiritual sense? This gives us an "insight" as to the how the "government" on the shoulders of Christ operates!
IOW? Spiritual incarceration!
Fines to be paid with "spiritual sacrifices!"
Fines? To the which? We ALL are guilty of, to greater, or lesser degrees!

 

[SimpleGardner]

a few months ago, followhisteps ( peterjens ) said this place was full of " old bitter retired people ", so maybe you guys should get together and decide what is going on...

Yeah, gotta admit that is funny! But sadly, there are juvenile attitudes that can infiltrate even the elderly. So, on a serious note these attitudes are witholdings from the Holy Spirit. Failures to progress.

I have found an interesting dynamic floating around nearly all religious sects, not to single out any, where "knowledge of" is being substituted for "experience of" or "immersion in". One is a mental consent of a truth which is ineffectual, the other is a total surrender to the truth which involves the heart, mind, body, all, which works its changes throughout.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
In the spiritual sense? This gives us an "insight" as to the how the "government" on the shoulders of Christ operates!
IOW? Spiritual incarceration!
Fines to be paid with "spiritual sacrifices!"
Fines? To the which? We ALL are guilty of, to greater, or lesser degrees!

Amen, and isn't this just one more verse which indicates that we are "under" Laws that require our acquiescence to or there is a judgement to be faced.

If we steal property from our neighbor, grace is not at your disposal by any Judge it is the sole right of the victim/adversary to administer grace. So if the victim is intent on prosecution then you better seek to restore your victim before the Judge exacts judgement!

If we steal peace from our neighbor, Where there may not be a "civil law" govorning the matter we are sure to find that Spiritual laws such as "love your neighbor as yourself" will be brought to bear. So here, let's say you shot your neighbors dog on your property, but their dog was just passing through, not trying to kill your animals or do you harm, then the Torah addresses this specifically as well as the universal law of "love your neighbor as yourself". Your peace which passes all understanding (Phil 4:7) will leave you until you restore your neighbor both physically and spiritually! And that is IF your neighbor is spiritual and will forgive you! If not then restitution becomes much more complicated.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yeah, gotta admit that is funny! But sadly, there are juvenile attitudes that can infiltrate even the elderly. So, on a serious note these attitudes are witholdings from the Holy Spirit. Failures to progress.

I have found an interesting dynamic floating around nearly all religious sects, not to single out any, where "knowledge of" is being substituted for "experience of" or "immersion in". One is a mental consent of a truth which is ineffectual, the other is a total surrender to the truth which involves the heart, mind, body, all, which works its changes throughout.

Perhaps this is germane to the verse;

Mat 7:21-23 NIV "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' (23) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Just another way of saying God knows us through our "hearts" and once He has our hearts we give Him all. Even the adversary understands or has a full knowledge of Gods will and ways, but he does not acquiesce to them.

 

[gb9]

Yeah, gotta admit that is funny! But sadly, there are juvenile attitudes that can infiltrate even the elderly. So, on a serious note these attitudes are witholdings from the Holy Spirit. Failures to progress.

I have found an interesting dynamic floating around nearly all religious sects, not to single out any, where "knowledge of" is being substituted for "experience of" or "immersion in". One is a mental consent of a truth which is ineffectual, the other is a total surrender to the truth which involves the heart, mind, body, all, which works its changes throughout.

I agree.

now, surrender yourself to the fact that gentiles were and are never under the Law and do NOT have to keep the Jewish Sabbath,

 

[FollowHisSteps]

a few months ago, followhisteps ( peterjens ) said this place was full of " old bitter retired people ", so maybe you guys should get together and decide what is going on...

Thanks for reminding me. It appears I got the "old" reference not wide enough, and should have included
middle aged as well. Ofcourse the bitter expression of antagonism, provocation and disdain could be flowing
from hearts full of love, joy and peace, but somehow, from my experience, such hearts are not really interested
in such things, and just want to glory in Christs work and love and the great things He is doing in our lives,
Amen.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I agree.

now, surrender yourself to the fact that gentiles were and are never under the Law and do NOT have to keep the Jewish Sabbath,

So you are the "Sabbath" guy and Dan is the "separation of the Moral, ceremonial etc laws" guy, and EG is the "Grace" guy. You guys have meetings on this? it is kinds obvious though. Not necessarily a bad strategy, but...

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thanks for reminding me. It appears I got the "old" reference not wide enough, and should have included
middle aged as well. Ofcourse the bitter expression of antagonism, provocation and disdain could be flowing
from hearts full of love, joy and peace, but somehow, from my experience, such hearts are not really interested
in such things, and just want to glory in Christs work and love and the great things He is doing in our lives,
Amen.

Hey FHS,

Either way there's a reason;

Pro 27:17 NIV As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Iron on iron can seem rough, but being sharp is worth it!

And;

Mat 10:34-39 NIV "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (35) For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— (36) a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' (37) "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; (38) and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. (39) Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you are the "Sabbath" guy and Dan is the "separation of the Moral, ceremonial etc laws" guy, and EG is the "Grace" guy. You guys have meetings on this? it is kinds obvious though. Not necessarily a bad strategy, but...

one thing is clear

We are ALL guys who believe righteousness is found in the law of CHrist, NOT in the law of moses..

I think we are all coming to try to show you in different ways why this is so. And you give us all the same answer (non at all)

 

[NayborBear]

Amen, and isn't this just one more verse which indicates that we are "under" Laws that require our acquiescence to or there is a judgement to be faced.

If we steal property from our neighbor, grace is not at your disposal by any Judge it is the sole right of the victim/adversary to administer grace. So if the victim is intent on prosecution then you better seek to restore your victim before the Judge exacts judgement!

If we steal peace from our neighbor, Where there may not be a "civil law" govorning the matter we are sure to find that Spiritual laws such as "love your neighbor as yourself" will be brought to bear. So here, let's say you shot your neighbors dog on your property, but their dog was just passing through, not trying to kill your animals or do you harm, then the Torah addresses this specifically as well as the universal law of "love your neighbor as yourself". Your peace which passes all understanding (Phil 4:7) will leave you until you restore your neighbor both physically and spiritually! And that is IF your neighbor is spiritual and will forgive you! If not then restitution becomes much more complicated.

Strikes me funny how people that have clocks and look at 'em, and yet, can't tell ya what time it is.
(hint: It's not "Howdy Doody" time, Buffalo Bob...)

 

[gb9]

So you are the "Sabbath" guy and Dan is the "separation of the Moral, ceremonial etc laws" guy, and EG is the "Grace" guy. You guys have meetings on this? it is kinds obvious though. Not necessarily a bad strategy, but...

I am the " Biblical truth " guy.

and, I really don't read dan's posts, nothing against him, but I have a hard time following what he says.
there is not one N.T. command to keep the Sabbath.

and, as I have already stated, according to Lev. 26 , if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then the Covenant that contained the Sabbath command was NOT for everyone,

you do understand how Biblical covenants work, right?

 

[SimpleGardner]

one thing is clear

We are ALL guys who believe righteousness is found in the law of CHrist, NOT in the law of moses..

I think we are all coming to try to show you in different ways why this is so. And you give us all the same answer (non at all)

Sadly we agree, but to you what fun would that be!?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I am the " Biblical truth " guy.

and, I really don't read dan's posts, nothing against him, but I have a hard time following what he says.
there is not one N.T. command to keep the Sabbath.

and, as I have already stated, according to Lev. 26 , if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then the Covenant that contained the Sabbath command was NOT for everyone,

you do understand how Biblical covenants work, right?

Hey, Chill! It's true about your focus on the Sabbath and Dans on the spearation of laws and EG on Grace So whats the big deal? Kinda predictable, but kind of endearing too, just not the tudes.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Strikes me funny how people that have clocks and look at 'em, and yet, can't tell ya what time it is.
(hint: It's not "Howdy Doody" time, Buffalo Bob...)

Now that's a throw back! I haven't heard that one in a while!

 

[SimpleGardner]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

Pleasant Greetings,

In reference to the Original post question; Would you say the following verse relates at all?:

Mat 4:4 NASB But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

SG