Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[calibob]

The Church is the Church, and the operation the same throughout the Church's history, so if tongues were for them back when the Church started then it is for today, for if Paul said when he speaks in tongues it is his spirit that prays why wouldn't the saints today get that same benefit as those in the early Church to edify them.

We know there are many hypocrites today as the Bible tells us there will be, and because of hypocrisy those people would not speak in tongues, for a person will only receive the Spirit when they truly understand repentance, and that is to confess all the past sins, which the hypocrites would not have a problem with that, and to hate sin, and do not want sin, and turn from sins, which many do not do that but they hold unto some sins, and repent of them as they go along thinking it is alright, or think they cannot abstain from sin and do not worry about repenting for it is already covered.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Which there is many people that claim Christ that have a form of living for God, but deny the Spirit to lead them for they want to hold unto sins, and believe that they are alright with God, which is why Jesus said not everyone that says Lord Lord will enter heaven, but only those that do the will of God, and told them to depart from Him for they were workers of iniquity.

So they would not speak in tongues, and since there is so many hypocrites, and different denominations that do not uphold the holiness of Jesus that are not speaking in tongues because of it, then many people do not believe in speaking in tongues, for many do not speak in tongues, and different denominations that are started by people that do not believe in tongues, and then you have many that will not speak in tongues that follow them.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Love never fails, prophesies can fail when they are over, but they are still known in the Bible because God identifies Himself as the one true God by showing the history of mankind telling the end from the beginning, and we know there is still prophesy to come for everybody is not with Jesus at the New Jerusalem, and things still to come on earth told in the Bible.

Tongues would not cease for all saints need to be edified, which if that is the purpose along with helping the saints abstain from sin and be Christlike then tongues would be for today, for all saints need to be edified not only those back then.

Knowledge shall pass away if we forget it, or do not need it anymore, but God wants us to know knowledge all the time, and to understand the whole of His word for He does not want that knowledge to pass away, and we still need knowledge today, so how can it pass away.

When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with, but the saints are not perfect as long as they are tempted to sin, and have the possibility to sin if they desire, although they can be considered perfect if they are led of the Spirit, but the human nature is still there, and there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

Tongues should still go on, knowledge should still go on, and prophesy should still go on while the saints are still on earth.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than hope, and faith, because of all we did on earth love will be the only thing that will go on forever, and faith, and hope, are not needed when the saints are with Jesus and His kingdom.

So I believe Paul is saying that when the saints are with Jesus then all the things they done on earth will be no more, including hope, and faith, but charity, love in action, will go on forever.

I do not understand how tongues, knowledge, and prophesy can cease while the saints are on earth, and the operation of the Church is the operation of the Church all through the Church's history.

Obviously you didn't listen to the video but that's ok, he is extremely knowledgeable about scripture. He was the founder of the Christian Research Institute. He teaches all 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit are still with us. All do not receive all 9 gifts and all do not receive the gift of tongues. Tongues are for witnessing and for edification of the church through interpretation of the tongues not a show or puffing up of self. His teachings always come with scriptural support. So don't ask me for it, listen for yourself. I've studied the phenomena and I agree with him.

 

[garee]

You quote the key verse yourself, but you don't seem to grasp that Paul is distinguishing the two gifts. I'll put it in simple terms for you:

Tongues are for 'X'

but

Prophecy is for 'Y'

How then can tongues and prophecy be the same thing, when they have different target audiences?

You forgot "Z" the outward confirming sign or self edifying falling backward sign? .

(Two targets) One target for the new manner of prophecy "tongues". God bringing new prophecy through all the nations of the world the promise of Joel. . . men and woman alike ( no outward sign as if the kingdom of God came by observation) . Previously speaking though the Hebrew nation divorcing her giving her a bill of divorcement the word of God. We walk by faith not after flesh and blood, against the same corrupted flesh and blood . and another a target as sign that confirms unbelief "Z" of those who yet will not hear prophecy . They are the ones that fall backward. yet see no evil in doing so like in Jerimiah 44:16

1# The doctrine of tongues, a new manner of prophecy.

2# The sign of those who will not hear prophecy in any language .

 

[Dino246]

You forgot "Z" the outward confirming sign or self edifying falling backward sign? .

(Two targets) One target for the new manner of prophecy "tongues". God bringing new prophecy through all the nations of the world the promise of Joel. . . men and woman alike ( no outward sign as if the kingdom of God came by observation) . Previously speaking though the Hebrew nation divorcing her giving her a bill of divorcement the word of God. We walk by faith not after flesh and blood, against the same corrupted flesh and blood . and another a target as sign that confirms unbelief "Z" of those who yet will not hear prophecy . They are the ones that fall backward. yet see no evil in doing so like in Jerimiah 44:16

1# The doctrine of tongues, a new manner of prophecy.

2# The sign of those who will not hear prophecy in any language .

I didn't forget anything. Paul didn't address a third gift in the first half of 1 Corinthians 14.

It amazes me that you can't see the distinction between the two gifts.

 

[calibob]

You forgot "Z" the outward confirming sign or self edifying falling backward sign? .

It's called swooning like girls used to over Frank Sinatra or Paul Mc Cartney. It happened to me too. I got so taken away in the moment that I fainted. Just an emotional overload. Nothing scriptural about it.

 

[garee]

Obviously you didn't listen to the video but that's ok, he is extremely knowledgeable about scripture. He was the founder of the Christian Research Institute. He teaches all 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit are still with us. All do not receive all 9 gifts and all do not receive the gift of tongues. Tongues are for witnessing and for edification of the church through interpretation of the tongues not a show or puffing up of self. His teachings always come with scriptural support. So don't ask me for it, listen for yourself. I've studied the phenomena and I agree with him.

With respect for Dr. Martin one of my favorites.

Did you look to the foundation of the doctrine of tongues? Its referenced to in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 as those who have ceased to hear the tongue of God, prophecy. .( yet for all that they hear me not)

Have you done that research ?

It has do with a people who time after time heard the word of God, tasted of it and the power to come but did not commit faith to it as a way of believing a God not seen. They in affect said; we will rather do whatsoever our own mouths say as oral traditions of men. .mentioned in Jerimiah 44.

They are those who see no evil in going above the word of God, making the word of God with no effect.

God promised them that refuse to hear a God not seen that he would mock them with what is called stammering lips mocking them by speaking His tongue as a interpretation through all the nations.

They even through they hear that.. they show it had no effect..... by falling backward as it would seem to mock the author of faith.

Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another (Gentile ) tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (Gentiles) and other lips (nations) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Once a person confirms what the sign represents then they can focus on the the prphecy , the blessing target that came as a new manner. a new tongue the gospel the hidden sign of the believer.

 

[calibob]

With respect for Dr. Martin one of my favorites.

Did you look to the foundation of the doctrine of tongues? Its referenced to in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 as those who have ceased to hear the tongue of God, prophecy. .( yet for all that they hear me not)

Have you done that research ?

It has do with a people who time after time heard the word of God, tasted of it and the power to come but did not commit faith to it as a way of believing a God not seen. They in affect said; we will rather do whatsoever our own mouths say as oral traditions of men. .mentioned in Jerimiah 44.

They are those who see no evil in going above the word of God, making the word of God with no effect.

God promised them that refuse to hear a God not seen that he would mock them with what is called stammering lips mocking them by speaking His tongue as a interpretation through all the nations.

They even through they hear that.. they show it had no effect..... by falling backward as it would seem to mock the author of faith.

Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another (Gentile ) tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (Gentiles) and other lips (nations) will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Once a person confirms what the sign represents then they can focus on the the prphecy , the blessing target that came as a new manner. a new tongue the gospel the hidden sign of the believer.

I didn't see doctrine of tongues listed in my bible. Thus It's just an opinion like any commentary is. There are no acceptable additions to the Bible. None! I never said or implied that tongues are fake.

 

[garee]

I didn't forget anything. Paul didn't address a third gift in the first half of 1 Corinthians 14.

It amazes me that you can't see the distinction between the two gifts.

Who said anything about two kinds of gifts? .I think spiritual gifts are not seen . No such thing as a "sign gift" .We walk by faith as sign of His witness in us we hear God..

Unless you are calling the curse revealed in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 the gift?

Once you confirm what the sign, not the doctrine to tongues points to. . . . . then the rest of the doctrine will fall into place. Turning it right side up walking by faith .

 

[Dino246]

Who said anything about two kinds of gifts? .I think spiritual gifts are not seen . No such thing as a "sign gift" .We walk by faith as sign of His witness in us we hear God..

Unless you are calling the curse revealed in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 the gift?

Once you confirm what the sign, not the doctrine to tongues points to. . . . . then the rest of the doctrine will fall into place. Turning it right side up walking by faith .

If you could track with the conversation, it would be helpful.

I didn't say "two kinds of gifts"; I said, "two gifts".

You've said many times "no such thing as a sign gift" despite the fact that Scripture calls both prophecy and tongues "gifts" and "signs".

 

[calibob]

Unless you are calling the curse revealed in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 the gift?

Once you confirm what the sign, not the doctrine to tongues points to. . . . . then the rest of the doctrine will fall into place. Turning it right side up walking by faith .

Curse? Not. Worship and praise should be orderly.
1 Corinthians 14:26-28
Good Order in Worship
26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.

Some churche have an "After glow meeting directly after the main service.

 

[garee]

I didn't see doctrine of tongues listed in my bible. Thus It's just an opinion like any commentary is. There are no acceptable additions to the Bible. None! I never said or implied that tongues are fake.

Dr. Martin seemed to miss that point.

The Bible is its own commentary, it as it is written is not after the private interpretation of any man.

The law of tongues (not a theory) spoken of is founded in the old testament. As David said in the Psalms...….. destroy the foundation, destroy the doctrines of God that fall from heaven. Not inspired from earth after men..

To myself its not a matter of whether they are fake or not.( Not a good argument) That would seem to cause confusion with no end, (no law to abide by) . he said, she said. And not brotherly unity . But rather; " what manner of prophecy is it"? Is it of God's Love that was shed abroad on all the hearts of men and women out of all the sinners in all the nations of the world that have been graced to be called children of God .

Was it as promised by Joel when the time of reformation would come and the government was restored to another time period before there were Kings in Israel. .

Are we in the last days is the veil rent?

Where did the idea of making sounds that have no meaning as a source of wonderment come from?

Was it inspired from above?

Is it the new unknown tongue the gospel that follows one believes? It would seem the language of no understanding as a unknown tongue would appose the known tongue revealed by scripture. The tongue of faith not the tongue of wonderment. .

I would ask. Who is the author of the unknown mysterious tongue as a wonderment?

 

[Absolutely]

This was my adult Sunday school teacher, for years. Their is no quick 3 paragraph way to cover gifts of the Holy Spirit, like tongues. So if you really want to learn, not in a hurry, please listen to the whole thing. If you can be still and listen for 25 min., that is.

@ 11;58 he makes a boo boo.
He thinks the Holy Spirit comes down,or manifests outside of believers exclusively.
Not true. They laid hands on beleivers and called down/imparted the baptism in the Holy Spirit many times in acts.
He is theorizing or connecting dots out of theory,not experience.

 

[KelbyofGod]

What were they tarrying for on the day of Pentecost?
What did they get? (what was it like?)

Did others have to tarry?
What did they get?

Did you tarry?
What did you get?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[TLC209]

Dr. Martin seemed to miss that point.

The Bible is its own commentary, it as it is written is not after the private interpretation of any man.

The law of tongues (not a theory) spoken of is founded in the old testament. As David said in the Psalms...….. destroy the foundation, destroy the doctrines of God that fall from heaven. Not inspired from earth after men..

To myself its not a matter of whether they are fake or not.( Not a good argument) That would seem to cause confusion with no end, (no law to abide by) . he said, she said. And not brotherly unity . But rather; " what manner of prophecy is it"? Is it of God's Love that was shed abroad on all the hearts of men and women out of all the sinners in all the nations of the world that have been graced to be called children of God .

Was it as promised by Joel when the time of reformation would come and the government was restored to another time period before there were Kings in Israel. .

Are we in the last days is the veil rent?

Where did the idea of making sounds that have no meaning as a source of wonderment come from?

Was it inspired from above?

Is it the new unknown tongue the gospel that follows one believes? It would seem the language of no understanding as a unknown tongue would appose the known tongue revealed by scripture. The tongue of faith not the tongue of wonderment. .

I would ask. Who is the author of the unknown mysterious tongue as a wonderment?

Well when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan.

But I think it is alot more complex as to what speaking in tounges actually is. The book of Acts is where all this originates, but in the book of Acts when they spoke in tounges it says that people from every nation heard them speak in their native tounge. So that is a clear indicator that these were not mysterious unknown tounges. Pentecostal movement would argue otherwise.

But again to answer your question I would add God is not a God of confusion. But rather it is the devil who causes confusion, with the intent to divide and isolate. In order to manipulate his clever schemes.

 

[CS1]

Well when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan.

But I think it is alot more complex as to what speaking in tounges actually is. The book of Acts is where all this originates, but in the book of Acts when they spoke in tounges it says that people from every nation heard them speak in their native tounge. So that is a clear indicator that these were not mysterious unknown tounges. Pentecostal movement would argue otherwise.

But again to answer your question I would add God is not a God of confusion. But rather it is the devil who causes confusion, with the intent to divide and isolate. In order to manipulate his clever schemes.

lol " when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan?

lol

 

[TLC209]

lol " when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan?

lol

Im assuming you speak babble. Just by your spirit of contempt.

 

[garee]

If you could track with the conversation, it would be helpful.

I didn't say "two kinds of gifts"; I said, "two gifts".

You've said many times "no such thing as a sign gift" despite the fact that Scripture calls both prophecy and tongues "gifts" and "signs".

No such thing as a "sign gift" (visual gift) We walk by faith of God the unseen eternal . Not that there are not signs or spiritual gifts not seen .

But all together as a "sign gift" no .Its just another case what God calls separate Satan calls as one .Or what God calls "together as one "Satan calls separate as his motive of operation

Outward signs what the eyes literally see are for those who rebel against prophecy or tongues. They are for those who create their own source of faith as a false wonderment. Going above that which is written destroys the integrity of the word of God.

Tongue is prophecy .The sign of tongues is against those who do not believe prophecy ( the whole word of God ).The perfect has come. All the knowledge that can come from prophecy has been given

What was known in part up until the last revelation (Revelation 22.). . . . now we can see face to face, knowledge to knowledge.

 

[JaumeJ]

I believe there is a bout of hair splitting goingon. Of course any miracle is significant of our Father only, a sign. So would be any gift for they are all what man regards as miracles………. Forme they have always been "ignes" of our Father's care fro each of us.

We do not seek signs, but we are given manty because we believe. It is a singful and wicked generation that seeks signs, for they seek them because they do not believe.

 

[Dino246]

No such thing as a "sign gift" (visual gift) We walk by faith of God the unseen eternal . Not that there are not signs or spiritual gifts not seen .

But all together as a "sign gift" no .Its just another case what God calls separate Satan calls as one .Or what God calls "together as one "Satan calls separate as his motive of operation

Outward signs what the eyes literally see are for those who rebel against prophecy or tongues. They are for those who create their own source of faith as a false wonderment. Going above that which is written destroys the integrity of the word of God.

Tongue is prophecy .The sign of tongues is against those who do not believe prophecy ( the whole word of God ).The perfect has come. All the knowledge that can come from prophecy has been given

What was known in part up until the last revelation (Revelation 22.). . . . now we can see face to face, knowledge to knowledge.

I've addressed these matters several times. Your position is not based on Scripture.

 

[CS1]

Im assuming you speak babble. Just by your spirit of contempt.

No, you assume much and Your words here: " when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan? "

is why I LOL. I found your words funny but if you want to make it personal go right ahead

 

[TLC209]

No, you assume much and Your words here: " when you word the question in that form, the answer is Satan? "

is why I LOL. I found your words funny but if you want to make it personal go right ahead

Hey bro if satan is funny to you thats all good. Not sure why youre on a Christian site? Moderator or not... nothing personal. I dont even know you. Hasta luego amigo..