Not By Works

[VCO]

The person doing those deeds, if they are a true child of God, they aren't doing them for salvation. They don't really give salvation a thought. It is out of love for the Lord. and all His longsuffering to save as many of His children as He can. I know this. I have never doubted my going to heaven. Never not once. So there is no works or deeds or repenting or anything that has to do with that. I had never even heard of it being in question before. I think that is what is so weird. It really is like the first thing we learn and the reason we even start down the path. Salvation can only be an offering of God. Maybe because I was born and raised Christian. I didn't even learn about the laws and works and ...... till way after I was already sure of my salvation. God is going to know. There will be no fooling him. Why does anyone else care what someone's motives are if they know for sure the truth will be revealed. Does saying it a million times change anything about what that person will do? I still don't know what it all really boils down to but I like that. I will find out or learn a lot not getting there.

I know you misunderstood me to start with, WHAT ON EARTH WAS THAT ALL ABOUT ? ? ? You in your post above, repeated what I was saying. If you have not met them, some HERE, certainly believe we must EARN SALVATION OR LOSE IT. That is FALSE DOCTRINE. Are you question my boldness to confront FALSE DOCTRINE ? ? ?

I do not think Older Women are are called to confront only Younger Women, when it comes to confronting False Doctrine. I know I will problem be Labeled Chauvinistic for that statement, but it is Biblical:

Titus 2:3-5 (ESV)
3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good,
4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children,
5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

So the ones GOD will gift and use to DEFEND THE FLOCK AGAINST FALSE TEACHINGS (Wolves), would be the Older Rams of the FLOCK.
I am 70 years old, and I take the command VERY SERIOUSLY:

Jude 1:3-4 (ESV)
3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

So YES those verses speak to my Heart, and I will earnestly contend against False Doctrine, such as Works Righteousness, Losing One's Salvation, and any other False Doctrines. Yes, I am seriously 70 years old, and was born in 1949. I also was a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, in California Prisons for 15 years, where I had to learn to stay away from Denominational Barriers. I feel that experience and my age, would be the experience necessary to contend against False Doctrine. I was Saved after three attempt at suicide in 1977 at the age of 29, and the Born Again experience gave me an absolute HUNGER for HIS WORD. And quickly after I was saved sought out a BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH, where they FED MY HUNGER for HIS WORD in sermons that lasted 45 - 60 minutes at a time. I regularly attend a conservative evangelical style of Church.

1 Timothy 5:1-2 (ESV)
1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.

 

[VCO]

Interesting how Peter use a different combination of words to say the same:

1Pe 2:7 (YLT) to you, then, who are believing is the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,
8 and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence--who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, --to which also they were set

That word in red is not the same one in Juan 3:36

Joh 3:36 (YLT) he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

Check both words in greek; the one by John has to do with "unbelievers", and Peter uses "disobedients". Some don't know what is obedience about, but it is parallel with the faith in some passages.

Here is my FAVORITE VERSE by Peter under the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.


1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


Looks to me like Peter was OSAS.

 

[stillness]

Th

James and Jude were addressing different issues.

Thank you for the concern and I am done because you do not understand what I am putting forth.

Do you see what you are saying, you are saying that there is no genuine salvation because there are no works that is not true. We are not saved by our works we saved apart from works therefore works can never be proof of salvation.

I believe exactly what @dcontroversal stated here. ( and I hope he does not mind but it relates directly to this discussion)

#36

7. Good works and righteousness must follow salvation. If they are absent, there was no genuine salvation. Just as if there is no repentance, there is no genuine salvation. (stated by another member)

The above underlined absolutely contradicts the following truth

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

The trouble is not in the Work, "The labourer is worty of his hire." The trouble is in the confusion of language until we walk in Love. When we are reconcilled to God we can understand others speaking the same thing diferently without confusion. Until we walk in Love languages remain confused. To one not by works means dont do any work and thats wrong. "Not sloyful in busyness." To another save by Grace is the influence of God to do the work Joyfully, and thats good. "The Joynof the Lord is our strengh." To one (Like James) who died for His Faith before he had the chance to show His Faith by his works being Faitful to the end. When your willing to do the work of God, work is no lnger work, but you still get wages. A crown of Life. Not everyone gets a crown, Just the laborours, and they dont have to work, they are kings and priest to God. Work is no longer work for them that Love Him: its "The Joy of the Lord" to be in fewllowship with Him and obtaining Resurrection that no one can attain by works. You may say, they suffered with Him isent that work. Only if you hold a gruge would it be work that would never be enough.

.

 

[Eli12]

1Co 9:24 (YLT) have ye not known that those running in a race--all indeed run, but one doth receive the prize? so run ye, that ye may obtain;
25 and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these, indeed, then, that a corruptible crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;
26 I, therefore, thus run, not as uncertainly, thus I fight, as not beating air;
27 but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others--I myself may become disapproved.

 

[UnderGrace]

Th

The trouble is not in the Work, "The labourer is worty of his hire." The trouble is in the confusion of language until we walk in Love. When we are reconcilled to God we can understand others speaking the same thing diferently without confusion. Until we walk in Love languages remain confused. To one not by works means dont do any work and thats wrong. "Not sloyful in busyness." To another save by Grace is the influence of God to do the work Joyfully, and thats good. "The Joynof the Lord is our strengh." To one (Like James) who died for His Faith before he had the chance to show His Faith by his works being Faitful to the end. When your willing to do the work of God, work is no lnger work, but you still get wages. A crown of Life. Not everyone gets a crown, Just the laborours, and they dont have to work, they are kings and priest to God. Work is no longer work for them that Love Him: its "The Joy of the Lord" to be in fewllowship with Him and obtaining Resurrection that no one can attain by works. You may say, they suffered with Him isent that work. Only if you hold a gruge would it be work that would never be enough.

.

The problem is not what we should do, I think on this we would all agree.

The problem is what MUST occur.

Faith is not faith unless it is capable of producing action... this is not the faith of the bible.

The problem is qualifying faith by works.

Which meand ...... faith is not faith unless it is accompanied by works!

Therefore........

Faith + works or faith accompanied by works are two ways of saying the exact same thing!

No works = hell, thus making works a condition for final salvation, thus making perseverance theology a works-salvation position.

 

[Eli12]

Nobody is saved by works, but nobody is saved without them:

Heb 10:26 (LEB) For if we keep on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that is about to consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment do you think the person will be considered worthy of who treats with disdain the Son of God and who considers ordinary the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy and who insults the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But remember the former days in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings ...

 

[UnderGrace]

Logic?

Logic says james spoke against licentiousness.

people who believed God, but had no faith in God. Thats WHY they had no works

As apposed to paul. Who spoke against legalism, People who proclaimed a bunch of works, yet had no faith..

Think on this if you will and many problems will be solved with regards to faith and works

God doesn’t drag people down the path of obedience.

He gives them all things that pertain to life and godliness, precious promises, the indwelling Holy Spirit, the seed of divine life (our regenerate nature), He will chasten, discipline, direct, encourage, etc., but He will not drag someone down the path of obedience because love does not operate that way.

Practical sanctification (not positional) is the synergistic activity of God and the Christian.

If the Christian does not do his part, he will not demonstrate his/her positional sanctification.

God has promised rewards for those who obey, and loss and discipline for those Christians who do not!

 

[Poinsetta]

non members can read your post trying to learn so please post carefully

 

[dcontroversal]

Bunch of hog wash grow some skin

Listen Blackberry Jam....I have skin.....and no problem laying bare the hypocrisy and false dogmas peddled like a street organ player in Bombay with a dancing monkey....

 

[dcontroversal]

Things you overlook: falling from grace dosent mean your lost: I fell from grace on the weekend and got frustrated with my Lady friend. She praided for me and i got over it. "His mercies are new every morning." The influence of Grace is sufiscient when we continue in Love, "Love does not insist on its own way." If people have to conform to your view and understanding to be accepted by you, even the truth you think you have would be considered a lie: from not having "Faith that works by Love." If I have all knowlege and understand all misteries and have not Love, i am nothing."

You have no godly love without being born again from above by faith pal.....get over your rose colored view of scriptures....

 

[JamOn]

Listen Blackberry Jam....I have skin.....and no problem laying bare the hypocrisy and false dogmas peddled like a street organ player in Bombay with a dancing monkey....

Haha that’s a good chuckle sport, it’s all good,, blackberry i use to have one

 

[dcontroversal]

Haha that’s a good chuckle sport, it’s all good,, blackberry i use to have one

Me too.......I never had a cell and a rich dude I worked for made me get one.......and now I am connected at the hip to a retarded smart phone.....I went in the ATT store and said....I want a DUMB phone.....and they said..we don't make dumb phones.....

 

[JamOn]

Me too.......I never had a cell and a rich dude I worked for made me get one.......and now I am connected at the hip to a retarded smart phone.....I went in the ATT store and said....I want a DUMB phone.....and they said..we don't make dumb phones.....

Now that’s truth bro, but they sure make cell phones that are a pain in the rearend. I got a version phone that has some push to talk plus crap I’ve got it turned off in the settings but the stupid thing keeps popping up.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now that’s truth bro, but they sure make cell phones that are a pain in the rearend. I got a version phone that has some push to talk plus crap I’ve got it turned off in the settings but the stupid thing keeps popping up.

Me a Samsung 8 Active......I make calls, text, viber, skype, caculator, alarm and pics.....the rest of it...I have no clue.....Two phones ago....target practice with a JM Tactical 12 guage and a 3 inch turkey load #4s

 

[stillness]

You have no godly love without being born again from above by faith pal.....get over your rose colored view of scriptures....

It would be good for you to take to heart what you say as you can only speak for yourself and be judged with the judgment that you judge with. You can only give what you have. As for me I dont judge anyone i am a vapour that is disapearing. "Its nolonger I that Lives but Christ." Examine yourself if what comes out of your heart are the words and wounds of Christ. You often push people away out of your insecurity. Jesus has no need to do that: the whole world is in His hands and He still wears a crown of thorns. Being rejected bybthose desiring to be in charge. When you think like Him you will realise that pushing people away puts either you or them in danger. Depending on wether they are weak and get ofended: you would be beter of with a milstone around your neck in the deepest adiction than to ofend one of these little ones. As for me there is nothing you can do. Its no longer I but Christ. Years ago I was also a religious achiever and the Lord told me: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent. Because i hear the Lord practically every day now, if Im listening. I dont take seriously what people say. As we are not for real appart from Christ. Life is no longer about me, so if your speaking to me your speaking to a dead man; no wonder you would find that repulsive. "From now on we no longer know any man after the flesh." "I carred mot to know anything among you except that your identyfied with Christ and crucified with Him." When your dead you no longer judge others, you no longer sin, you no longer worry. But as i mentioned earlier, on the weekend i fel from Grace and got frustrated, but got up by the Grace of God and go on. This is why we pray for one another, that we may have Grace to help in our time of need.

 

[JamOn]

Me a Samsung 8 Active......I make calls, text, viber, skype, caculator, alarm and pics.....the rest of it...I have no clue.....Two phones ago....target practice with a JM Tactical 12 guage and a 3 inch turkey load #4s

I hate to say it but I hate texting, sometimes I have to but I’d rather just talk like the ol days. hehe.

it’s like almost typing on sites like this, you really can’t get a true vibe without hearing a tone in the voice at least that is what I notice about chatting through just mere word posting. in person is possibly the most assured on reading someone’s emotions and reactions. there’s that saying body language can tell a lot about a person as well.

 

[dcontroversal]

It would be good for you to take to heart what you say as you can only speak for yourself and be judged with the judgment that you judge with. You can only give what you have. As for me I dont judge anyone i am a vapour that is disapearing. "Its nolonger I that Lives but Christ." Examine yourself if what comes out of your heart are the words and wounds of Christ. You often push people away out of your insecurity. Jesus has no need to do that: the whole world is in His hands and He still wears a crown of thorns. Being rejected bybthose desiring to be in charge. When you think like Him you will realise that pushing people away puts either you or them in danger. Depending on wether they are weak and get ofended: you would be beter of with a milstone around your neck in the deepest adiction than to ofend one of these little ones. As for me there is nothing you can do. Its no longer I but Christ. Years ago I was also a religious achiever and the Lord told me: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent. Because i hear the Lord practically every day now, if Im listening. I dont take seriously what people say. As we are not for real appart from Christ. Life is no longer about me, so if your speaking to me your speaking to a dead man; no wonder you would find that repulsive. "From now on we no longer know any man after the flesh." "I carred mot to know anything among you except that your identyfied with Christ and crucified with Him." When your dead you no longer judge others, you no longer sin, you no longer worry. But as i mentioned earlier, on the weekend i fel from Grace and got frustrated, but got up by the Grace of God and go on. This is why we pray for one another, that we may have Grace to help in our time of need.

Let me just clue you in a bit....the only people I light up are those that reject truth, deny scripture, twist or skew scripture, peddle a false losable or gained, self maintained salvation....You do not know me, you do not know what I have done in my life, how many people I have led to the LORD or witnessed to, how I am one on one in person, the places and countries I have witnessed in etc. etc. etc....YOU guys assume that just because I lay some heat down, or use sarcasm or cut some no slack that I am some angry guy with no love or compassion and or insight....

NOW...having said that...THE BIBLE does not promote selling out the truth under some banner of oooey gooey love and or compromise for the sake of unity....TWO cannot walk together unless agreed....and make NO MISTAKE.....there are more gospels on this site than a Baskin Robbins Ice Cream Parlor and more skewed and twisted ideologies than Heinz 57 steak sauce....

ONE and only one GOSPEL has the power to save men....the rest are fraudulent, have no power to save and will lead the one espousing them straight to the pit.......

 

[dcontroversal]

I hate to say it but I hate texting, sometimes I have to but I’d rather just talk like the ol days. hehe.

it’s like almost typing on sites like this, you really can’t get a true vibe without hearing a tone in the voice at least that is what I notice about chatting through just mere word posting. in person is possibly the most assured on reading someone’s emotions and reactions. there’s that saying body language can tell a lot about a person as well.

I have said the latter 50 times on this site....NO ONE can judge motive or intent without facial expression and exactly why many will falsely accuse or attribute motive...

 

[stillness]

No one loses salvation pal.....and everything else you said, nothing but unfounded false allegations or implications.......

Yes no one losses God, God cant be lost. Thats no reason for you to slander anyone who says it diferently than you. Did you hear about the man who said I foud the Lord. The person responded: I did not know He was Lost. Will you stop being insecure and defending your view, to realise God is not insecure and dosent need our help: we need His Help, to have His Compashion.

 

[Eli12]

Jas 3:5 (LEB) So also the tongue is a small member of the body and boasts great things. Behold how small a fire sets ablaze how great a forest!
6 And the tongue is a fire! The world of unrighteousness, the tongue, is set among our members, defiling the whole body and setting on fire ?the course of human existence?, being set on fire by hell.
7 For every species of animals and birds, of reptiles and sea creatures, is being tamed and has been tamed by the human species,
8 but no human being is able to tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God.
10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so!
11 A spring does not pour forth from the same opening fresh and bitter water, does it?
12 A fig tree is not able, my brothers, to produce olives, or a grapevine figs. Neither can a saltwater spring produce fresh water.
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by his good behavior his works, with the humility of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and tell lies against the truth.
15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
16 For where there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there is disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceful, gentle, obedient, full of mercy and good fruits, nonjudgmental, without hypocrisy,
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace among those who make peace.