Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

gb9 · Jul 29, 2019

you can add this to the list of things he won't talk about.

the mount of Transfiguration , the Fruits of the Sprit, gentiles never being under the Law.....

amazing how well judeaizer theology works when you just ignore massive hunks of Scripture.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

So how then do we take that the law called for sacrifice even for unintentional sin?

God is a loving God. Of course he desires loyalty rather than sacrifice. But does not his perfect righteousness DEMAND sacrifice?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

You still have not answered the question

Did God demand sacrifice of an innocent for unintentional sin?

Why do you keep on doing this>

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2019

gb9 said:

He has a habit, When he gets cornered, he switches and tries to change the topic.

He tried to slip in the law allowed for mercy for unintentional sin, When it was shown that it did, ONLY with animal sacrifice, He changed, and never even accepted that part of the law.

Its like they only accept the parts they like.

DeighAnn · Jul 29, 2019

Does the Covenant that Jesus brought about require perfection? Love God, Love your neighbor? When brought into being with His blood shed on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins, WASN'T it so we DID NOT HAVE TO BE PERFECT AND FORGIVENESS AND LOVE WERE TO RULE? something the old law didn't do in that we were weak.

BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITTING of ordinances THAT WAS AGAINST US , which WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Why is it the Covenant which Jesus paid so dear a price to bring us, THE ONE OF FORGIVENESS, no perfection required KEEP GETTING STEAM ROLLED OVER AND THE OLD LAW AND ALL ITS IMPERFECTIONS TOWARDS US KEEP GETTING BROUGHT UP LIKE IT IS STILL THE LAW? . I COMPLETELY understand James speaks of breaking one and guilty of all but that is the Beauty of Christianity, repentance is with us, forgiveness is immediate upon repentance, it is for sure. We are washed clean, We are not a slave to the old law, we are NO LONGER BOUND, we can repent and repent and repent and without any animal sacrifice, without Jesus having to do it again as HE WAS PERFECT and complete forever, without going through a priest, not waiting for the day of atonement, JESUS IS OUR HIGH PRIEST, OUR MEDIATOR, we never have to wait. GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES OR DEBTS AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS

DeighAnn · Jul 29, 2019

gb9 said:

Gentiles were grafted in. They didn't start under the law, neither did the Christians, only the Jews were under the law. Yes, both Gentiles, Christians, "made a new creature" are all living off the same root. THERE is no difference. If you have taken Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then you understand that the Commandments He gave us apply to everyone correct? There is NOT a separate baptism and salvation for Gentiles and a separate baptism and salvation for Christians, there is just the one baptism for all. So it doesn't matter if the Gentiles were never under the law. We all are coming to Christ. The root. Part of the vine or grafted into the vine. Just the vine.

What is the question on the Mount of Transfiguration?

Fruits of the Spirit are really self explanatory. Bitter and sweet water?? fruit from a thorn bush?? You are know by your fruits?? good figs and nasty figs?? You can only fake it so long but in the end your fruits tell on you?? Joy, peace, love those???

I don't know who "he" is but I'll try an answer. I could use some work on apologies if I get it wrong.

Marcelo · Jul 29, 2019

SimpleGardner said:

Greetings Marcelo,

If we look at;

Hos 6:6 NASB For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

and where Jesus quoted the above in;

Mat 9:12-13 NASB But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. (13) "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Can we see the intent of our redeemer towards "Fidelity" of "faithfulness" as you shared earlier today?

Sure, God has always preferred commitment, compassion, faithfulness and obedience to sacrifices.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 29, 2019

Marcelo said:

Any God who is a loving God would

But as scripture shows. Love can not over rule justice. And as the author of hebrews declares. WITHOUT the SHEDDING of BLOOD there IS NO FORGIVENESS.

Obedience is awesome and God loves it, but there is still a penalty of sin. And your not perfect. Non of us are. So we still have a major issue that ONLY blood can take care of

Karraster · Jul 29, 2019

Exodus 19:5 "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:"

The mixing of wool and linen was mentioned somewhere in this thread, I've no idea how many pages back. These commands are designed to show Israel how they are to keep themselves separate from the world IMO. This may be the very basic meaning, I'm sure there are many more thoughts and ideas about our Creator that one could learn resulting from studying these. Here in context, these 3 seem to have a common theme...…(mixing)

Deut 22:
9 Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled.[a]

10 Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.

11 Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.

Any thoughts?

gb9 · Jul 29, 2019

DeighAnn said:

there is no question about the mount of Transfiguration experience.
God the Father ( the truth of Trinity shines through here) says of the Son, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ), " hear Him", thus setting the Words in Red above and apart from them.

so, when Jesus said " if you love Me, keep My commands", He meant the words He said while He was here on earth.

and, Sabbath keeping was NOT mentioned when Paul laid them out, because Sabbath keeping is and never was commanded to gentiles.

you really need some different talking points, these are so easy to refute, I am not even trying hard yet.

gb9 · Jul 29, 2019

Karraster said:

sure do.

this is true.

but, also true, if you put yourself under the Law of Moses, then you have to have a Levite Priest come and pronounce your house clean if you have mold in the basement.

I have a basement. know any I can call if I find any mold??

I mean, the Law of Moses is as whole in of itstself. you can't pick and choose which ones to keep or not if you put yourself under it

lightbearer · Jul 30, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

lightbearer said:

eternally-gratefull said:

You did it again by implying I have a quilt complex. To couple that you out right call deighann and simplegardaner liars, and slanderers that give God and His children a bad name.

SimpleGardner · Jul 30, 2019

Marcelo said:

In some ways this speaks to your original post question.

DeighAnn · Jul 30, 2019

Its late, I am finally tired, and I just cant shorten it any more, it already feels like a shadow of its former self.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The law of Moses is claimed by Jesus. It is set to expire anyway, being set up as temporary

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. We know sin is abounding everywhere and by that very fact alone, there is law everywhere. If you say you are a sinner, you say there is law. If you say you are not a sinner, you do lie. Where there is sin, blood must be shed for the forgiveness. To be forgiven you must repent. I know, It is a vicious circle.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the east in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Definitely here Jesus is telling us about the law and the prophets. More in a bit.

Verse 17 to destroy 2647 to abolish, overthrow
to fulfil 4137 to make full, complete
Verse 18 pass 3928 become vain void
fulfilled 1096 come into being, to become Notice the two fulfills not the same.

Luke 24:44 And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Does one really "fulfill" a law. I guess if that were to be true Jesus would be the one. But laws are obeyed, or broken, or changed, or done away with.... Laws are lots of things but, fulfilled is a stretch not to say Jesus couldn't stretch, just a starting opinion.

Luke 24:45 Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Jesus affirming the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, and repentance and remission of sins. The law we obey, the prophets give prophecy, and the psalms instruct. ALL GIVE PROPHECY. All the prophecy of all of them must be fulfilled.

******************* Repentance and remission of sins not in connection with baptism, not given as a one time event**************************.

Psalms give prophecy, the law gives prophecy, the prophets give law, psalms give law etc, so we have context as a tool.

law of Moses, your law, their law
law of God is NOT the law of Moses

I am going to obey the law
I am going to fulfill the law
I am going to obey the prophecy
I am going to fulfill the prophecy

We obey laws, prophecies are fulfilled

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Could it simply be better read,
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, I am not come to destroy
Think not that I am come to destroy the prophets but I am come to fulfill.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall BREAK ONE of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the east in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

DeighAnn · Jul 30, 2019

lightbearer said:

What is deighann doing to get reported? And to whom are we reported? And SG? you must be kidding. Are we getting reported for bad content?

DeighAnn · Jul 30, 2019

gb9 said:

I know that the law of Moses has expired, yet it still hangs on 2 of the commandments Jesus gave, do you obey the laws of God?

gb9 · Jul 30, 2019

DeighAnn said:

as a gentile, I was never under the Law of Moses.

I obey the Words in Red , along with the instructional Scripture in the New Testament.

amazing how all you judeaizers love to promote the words of the Father, until you get to the mount of Transfiguration , then you ignore those words.....

lightbearer · Jul 30, 2019

DeighAnn said:

I don't know.

SimpleGardner · Jul 30, 2019

lightbearer said:

Greetings lightbearer,

Glad to see you back. Thank you for your love of truth and justice. It is sad that so many here cannot see themselves and their behavior. I have been trying to avoid their attitudes reference my pasture comment.

Sadly, many of these rise to the level of persecution. Gods people are not persecutors, but we were given many comforting words for when we are;

Mat 5:10-11 NIV Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (11) "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

Isn't it strange and sadly interesting how the persecution is usually around "righteousness"

G1343
δικαιοσύνη
dikaiosunē
Thayer Definition:
1) in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
1a) the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
1b) integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
2) in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due
Part of Speech: noun feminine

So the verse above Mat 5:10 would read:
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

I often think that much of this hostility towards us comes from the Hostility Paul declared when he said;

Gal 1:9-10 NIV As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (10) Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

But those who take license to attack as unkind brutes cannot see the above as license if they read the below;

Eph 4:31-32 NIV Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. (32) Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

You are a precious brother, and our Redeemer has given you His love for Justice and for what is true! How amazing is that!?

Keep in mind that there is an end to what we can do at times;

Pro 19:19 NIV A hot-tempered man must pay the penalty; if you rescue him, you will have to do it again.

Pro 22:24-25 NIV Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered, (25) or you may learn his ways and get yourself ensnared.

SG

SimpleGardner · Jul 30, 2019

Karraster said:

Greetings K,

Good to see you here again.

Not that I wish for your persecution!

I agree with your opinion. The excerpt below is from a book; "Beyond Humiliation, The way of The Cross", which I read decades ago, written in the late 1800's by James Gregory Mantle. Does the third chapter speak to anything we see coming from some here in CC?

In the beginning a threefold separation was accomplished before the command was given: “Be fruitful, and multiply.” God separated the light from the darkness, the waters beneath from the waters above the ﬁrmament, the sea from the dry land. To show His jealousy for physical order still further, He forbid an Israelite to plow with an ox and an ass under the same yoke (Deut. xxii. 10). The sowing of a ﬁeld with mingled seed, and the wearing of a garment mingled of linen and woolen were also strictly forbidden (Lev. xix. 19). To this day an orthodox Jew will not mend a woolen garment with a ﬂaxen thread. One of the preparations made by the Jews for an approaching Passover was to go over the ﬁelds and root up plants that had grown from mingled seeds. These prohibitions were intended to cultivate in the mind of the people the sentiment of reverence for the order established in nature by God. Wool and linen come from separate kingdoms in nature, one from the animal, the other from the vegetable, and unmixedness of moral character is clearly foreshadowed. To wear, in the same robe, the wool of selﬁshness and the linen of spirituality is contrary to the law of order which prevails in the kingdom of grace as in the kingdom of nature. God is as jealous — nay, more jealous — of moral order than of physical order, and in the management of their cattle, in the cultivation of their ﬁelds, in the making and wearing of their clothes, God was whispering in their ear, “Be pure of heart and life.” “What communion hath light with darkness?”

This thought of unmixedness is still further illustrated in the dress of the priests: “When the priests minister in the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; no wool shall come upon them while they minister in the inner court, and within” (Ezek. xliv. 17). To enter “within the veil” and dwell there in the presence of God, there must be a laying aside of all that appertains to the dark world — the world of our selfhood — and we must be clothed with the ﬁne linen, clean and white, which is the righteous acts of the saints and the robing of the Bride of Christ (Rev. xix. 8).

Few will deny that this mixedness in Christian life and work is a great bane, and seriously interferes with the effectiveness of both. This must be so, because it is a subversion of God’s order, and, as we have previously intimated, the creature will not be permitted with impunity to interfere with the laws established by the Creator. This was Paul’s trouble in the Corinthian Church. The Christians were possessed of a regenerate babe-life which Paul calls “carnality.” They lived a kind of suspended life, now dominated by the ﬂesh and now by the Spirit, and the result was an elementary experience, envying, strife, and division (I Cor. iii.). Those who are living this mixed life are spoken of as double-minded (more exactly double-souled) men (James i. 8; iii. 8). There is only one cure for such a condition. It is the converging of all the desires and affections in the same center, viz., the love of God’s will and glory. When this is the case true singleness of heart is experienced. “If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.”

Before we can live the unmixed life, and belong no longer to the carnal but to the spiritual Christians, we must be willing to know the extent of the mixedness in our own character, for what the eye does not see the heart will not grieve over. Before we invite God to search us, let us pause and ask whether we are willing that He should make a thorough work of this self-discovery, however painful and humbling it may be. If not, we had better not begin; for it is better to be without the light than to possess it and be disobedient.

To this I add a poem that gets me literally every time I read it;

Search me, O God, my actions try,

And let my life appear

As seen by Thine all-searching eye—

To mine my ways make clear.

· Search all my sense, and know my heart

Who only canst make known,

And let the deep, the hidden part

To me be fully shown.

· Throw light into the darkened cells,

Where passion reigns within;

Quicken my conscience till it feels

The loathsomeness of sin.

· Search all my thoughts, the secret springs,

The motives that control;

The chambers where polluted things

Hold empire o'er the soul.

· Search, till Thy fiery glance has cast

Its holy light through all,

And I by grace am brought at last

Before Thy face to fall.

· Thus prostrate I shall learn of Thee,

What now I feebly prove,

That God alone in Christ can be

Unutterable love.

F. Bottome

We are so blessed to have a Loving Creator who will and does this for us!

SG

Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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