E
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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I know what you mean...doctrine is often pounded in or pushed so much, often just spoken often to the point where it is hard to root our of our every day reasoning faculties and it tends to corrupt much of what we think until we root it out.
You know EG, all things aside, you do come across as bitter and angry. I pray that you can get peace from that. It is one of the hardest things to root out, but all things are possible for God if you can just offer it up. I'm not tying it to any of your beliefs or positions...I'm just saying it's there. That's whey we are admonished to not let any "root of bitterness" creep in, because ti takes root and it's like trying to pull a tree up by it's roots if you let it go. Then you need an axeman!
The verses i quoted he's responding to are Matthew 12, which isn't an accusation against Jesus in the first place, but His disciples, and has nothing to do with healing or good works, but harvesting grain.
And all i did was talk about how Jesus replied, ask questions about why He did, and remark how profound it is.
For this LB thinks i blaspheme.
SMH
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
All things aside.
I have witnessed what it is like to live your life tryig to follow law. And not trying to follow Christ.
I have seen people walk away from God (why bother. I can’t live up to Gods standard
I have seen the arrogance and pride of others, who go around saying they are preaching the love of God. Instead, who attack, Belittle and bemoan others, instead of sharing Gods love and mercy, instead tell them they have to stop their sins, and commit to be obedient people BEFORE they can come to christ (A feat I may add which is IMPOSSIBLE, of course, I am sure you do not believe this.
I have witnessed an dexperienced first hand the pain of finding out the true purpose of the law. And Gods standard. And knowing I can not meet that standard no matter how I try. So I walked away from God and become a prodigal child for 5 years (I am still suffering the results of that time period in my life)
And then, I have seen people like I meet in here. Who are so sure they believe what others believe, no matter what anyone says, they will REFUSE to admit it, Push law as a means of christian growth or a means of learning to live christlike or as with some, to gain eternal life, and then, to see what amazes me so much, everyone who also thinks we need to be under law praise these false gospel teachers. Instead of loving them and sharing the true gospel with them. (It seems to be a major sign of tongues people and law people. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, no matter what they believe)
So yeah. I am passionate. I want people to find what I found, I want people to be healed like I was healed. I want to prevent others from falling into the same trap. I want to also stand up to those who ARE preaching a false gospel of works. Kist like Paul spent most of his life doing.
Does that make me appear angry?
well, from someone who refuses to answer questions, even today, Not just my questions, but other peoples questions. I think the last thing you need to worry about is if someone is angry or not. You have your own sins to take care of.. As the good book says remove the plank from your eye before you try to remove specs from other peoples eyes?
You said we ned to change the subject? Well thats good and fine and dandy.
I think however this is one of the most important topics we as believers can discuss.
How do we grow in christ, How do we learn to be christlike. How do we grow from babes in christ, to mature christians who look like him.
The most important is the gospel (how one is saved)
The second most important is christian growth (discipleship)
So anyone, once again,
When are you going to discuss the word. And how we do those things, and stop trying to be my mother?
I read your words and understand what you are saying, but what comes across louder is the hardness and bitterness.
Call it "mothering" or brothering, I just want to share what i find may be helpful.
Don't shoot the messanger!
SG
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Poor guy. I mean who is really the one who is rooting bitterness here?I read your words and understand what you are saying, but what comes across louder is the hardness and bitterness.
Call it "mothering" or brothering, I just want to share what i find may be helpful.
Don't shoot the messanger!
SG
Is it not true you are sick of being shown how you refuse to answer questions when your faith is put into question.
Is it not true you are bitter that people like me have no issue calling your group out for all your lies and slander against people like us who have truly repented and placed our whole eternity in the hands of God?
Is it not true your bitter that you keep getting shown that the law had a purpose. And its purpose was to lead people to christ. And it is not the means to christian growth or how we become mature in christ, And you keep being shown the true requirment of the law (perfection) which neither you are anyone who is with you can maintain or even achieve? And no matter how many times people ask you how th ministry of death can help us. And other questions just like it. You continue to give vague or as someone said political answers instead of sticking to the point and coming out and responding to the actual question?
Is it not true, that you want to shut me and those like me up, But since you can’t you feel you have the need to keep making these posts tryign to attack our character, and claim we have issues that we need to take care of?
You see many of this is Christian chat are used to this, because we have seen it far to often from so many people. You actually make us laugh because you are so easy to see and we can almost prophesy how you will act and what you will say, And so many times, you do exactly that.
But hey, If it makes you feel better trying to attack my character, so be it. At least something good comes from our conversations.. and you can have some joy..
I’m beginning to think you may have a habit of thinking you are the smartest guy in the thread EG, and that may be a sign not of bitterness but pride….
You give your testimony in such a way as to say; “See, this entitles me to know I’m right and you are not!” taking the “high place” that pride does rather than the “low place”. It’s like you have closed your notes book because you have nothing to learn from anyone, why would you, we are “below you”!? Or maybe there’s some insecurity and envy too, dunno.
Hey, we all have issues, especially in today's dysfunctional world. If yours is pride, I hope you will simply take the “low place”…your words will have more meaning.
here is the thing, with me anyway.
I think you are a nice person, I think you mean well. I think you truly desire to be righteous. and, you have said that you 100% believe that the only way to be saved is 100% faith and trust in Christ.
but, here is the issue I and e.g. have- you point to the Law as the proper way to walk out that faith and be righteous. that is not Biblical, and it is dangerous because it can easily turn into " saved by grace, kept saved by works", which is the opposite of what salvation is - a gift.
as I have told you before , when a person 100% puts there faith and trust in Christ, accepts Him as Lord of their life, then the Holy Sprit will come into that person and that person will manifest the fruits of the Sprit, against there is NO Law.
remember, the Letter kills, the Sprit gives life.
Is it not true you are bitter that people like me have no issue calling your group out for all your lies and slander against people like us who have truly repented and placed our whole eternity in the hands of God
How is this different?
You repented once, you are done. You placed your whole eternity in the hands of God.
We repent through out our lives, We place our whole eternity in the hands of God
Is it not true your bitter that you keep getting shown that the law had a purpose. And its purpose was to lead people to christ.
How are we different?
You believe the law had a purpose. To lead people to christ
We believe the law had a purpose. To lead us to Christ
And it is not the means to christian growth or how we become mature in christ,
You believe it is not the means to christian growth or how to become mature in christ.
We believe it IS A MEANS TO Christian growth and IT IS a way, NOT THE ONLY WAY, but another way that leads us to Christ (funny how you "lock" yourself in, seems that would be something for those who follow the law, not the other way around)
And you keep being shown the true requirment of the law (perfection) which neither you are anyone who is with you can maintain or even achieve?
Your JUST CAN'T GET PAST THAT MOSAIC LAW THING. THAT LAW REQUIRED PERFECTION. THAT LAW THAT WAS DONE AWAY WITH. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. BECAUSE THE LAW REQUIRED PERFECTION THAT WE COULD NOT ACHIEVE IT WAS ABOLISHED. THERE DOES NOT EXIST, AND HAS NOT EXISTED FOR 2000 YRS ANY LAW FROM GOD THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. LET ME SAY IT IN A DIFFERENT COLOR. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. DIFFERENT SIZE THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. None. nO LAW. pERFECTION NOT REQUIRED. pERFECTION DONE AWAY WITH. We DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT. WE DO TRY, BUT THAT IS JUST OUT OF PURE LOVE. OBEDIANCE. THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST IS WHAT REPLACED THAT LAW. HIS LAW IS A LAW OF FORGIVENESS AND LIFE AND PEACE AND LOVE. HIS LAW IS EXTREMELY AWARE OF HOW FLAWED WE ARE AND HOW CLEAN WE WISH TO BE IF WE LOVE THE LORD OUR GOD WITH ALL OUR HEARTS AND ALL OUR MINDS AND WITH ALL WE ARE . SO HE MAKES IT EASY. SUPER EASY FOR US.
THAT IS WHAT THE LORD AND SAVIOR GOT RID OF. THE THING YOU CAN NOT STAND DOES NOT EXIST. THE LAW THAT SAID YOU HAD TO BE PERFECT DOES NOT APPLY. We NOW HAVE CHRIST. THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT. THERE WAS A LAW, NOW THERE IS A JESUS CHRIST. THAT LAW THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT WAS REPLACED WITH A LAW THAT FORGIVES UPON REPENTANCE SO THAT YOU DON'T EVER CARRY SIN AROUND WITH YOU. THERE WAS, I DO STRESS WAS A LAW THAT SAID "BE PERFECT OR DIE" THAT LAW IS NOW JESUS CHRIST THAT SAYS "COME THROUGH ME, BE FREE" I HAVE PAID THE PRICE TO SET YOU FREE OF THAT LAW THAT SAID YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT. MY YOKE IS LIGHT. MY WAY IS LOVE. I LOVE YOU SO I SUFFERED SO THAT IT COULD BE EASY FOR YOU. YOU JUST TRY TO BE GOOD AND LOVING AND KIND AND JESUS PAID THAT PRICE. FORGIVENESS AS WE WALK EVERYDAY. DO WE STOP TRYING BECAUSE WE CAN'T ACHIEVE? NO. BUT WE DON'T NEED A SCHOOLMASTER DO WE? NO, WE UNDERSTAND TO BE HOLY TAKES A LOT WHILE WE ARE IN THE FLESH. BUT GOD WANTS TO BE SURE THAT NO ONE WILL FOLLOW ANYONE BUT HIM EVER AGAIN ONCE THIS AGE IS DONE. DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE GOOD? OR CAN YOU ONLY SEE THAT SOMEONE ELSE CAN ACHIEVE IT?
How is this different?
You repented once, you are done. You placed your whole eternity in the hands of God.
We repent through out our lives, We place our whole eternity in the hands of God
Is it not true your bitter that you keep getting shown that the law had a purpose. And its purpose was to lead people to christ.
How are we different?
You believe the law had a purpose. To lead people to christ
We believe the law had a purpose. To lead us to Christ
And it is not the means to christian growth or how we become mature in christ,
You believe it is not the means to christian growth or how to become mature in christ.
We believe it IS A MEANS TO Christian growth and IT IS a way, NOT THE ONLY WAY, but another way that leads us to Christ (funny how you "lock" yourself in, seems that would be something for those who follow the law, not the other way around)
And you keep being shown the true requirment of the law (perfection) which neither you are anyone who is with you can maintain or even achieve?
Your JUST CAN'T GET PAST THAT MOSAIC LAW THING. THAT LAW REQUIRED PERFECTION. THAT LAW THAT WAS DONE AWAY WITH. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. BECAUSE THE LAW REQUIRED PERFECTION THAT WE COULD NOT ACHIEVE IT WAS ABOLISHED. THERE DOES NOT EXIST, AND HAS NOT EXISTED FOR 2000 YRS ANY LAW FROM GOD THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. LET ME SAY IT IN A DIFFERENT COLOR. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. DIFFERENT SIZE THERE IS NO LAW THAT REQUIRES PERFECTION. None. nO LAW. pERFECTION NOT REQUIRED. pERFECTION DONE AWAY WITH. We DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT. WE DO TRY, BUT THAT IS JUST OUT OF PURE LOVE. OBEDIANCE. THE LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST IS WHAT REPLACED THAT LAW. HIS LAW IS A LAW OF FORGIVENESS AND LIFE AND PEACE AND LOVE. HIS LAW IS EXTREMELY AWARE OF HOW FLAWED WE ARE AND HOW CLEAN WE WISH TO BE IF WE LOVE THE LORD OUR GOD WITH ALL OUR HEARTS AND ALL OUR MINDS AND WITH ALL WE ARE . SO HE MAKES IT EASY. SUPER EASY FOR US.
THAT IS WHAT THE LORD AND SAVIOR GOT RID OF. THE THING YOU CAN NOT STAND DOES NOT EXIST. THE LAW THAT SAID YOU HAD TO BE PERFECT DOES NOT APPLY. We NOW HAVE CHRIST. THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT. THERE WAS A LAW, NOW THERE IS A JESUS CHRIST. THAT LAW THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT WAS REPLACED WITH A LAW THAT FORGIVES UPON REPENTANCE SO THAT YOU DON'T EVER CARRY SIN AROUND WITH YOU. THERE WAS, I DO STRESS WAS A LAW THAT SAID "BE PERFECT OR DIE" THAT LAW IS NOW JESUS CHRIST THAT SAYS "COME THROUGH ME, BE FREE" I HAVE PAID THE PRICE TO SET YOU FREE OF THAT LAW THAT SAID YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT. MY YOKE IS LIGHT. MY WAY IS LOVE. I LOVE YOU SO I SUFFERED SO THAT IT COULD BE EASY FOR YOU. YOU JUST TRY TO BE GOOD AND LOVING AND KIND AND JESUS PAID THAT PRICE. FORGIVENESS AS WE WALK EVERYDAY. DO WE STOP TRYING BECAUSE WE CAN'T ACHIEVE? NO. BUT WE DON'T NEED A SCHOOLMASTER DO WE? NO, WE UNDERSTAND TO BE HOLY TAKES A LOT WHILE WE ARE IN THE FLESH. BUT GOD WANTS TO BE SURE THAT NO ONE WILL FOLLOW ANYONE BUT HIM EVER AGAIN ONCE THIS AGE IS DONE. DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BE GOOD? OR CAN YOU ONLY SEE THAT SOMEONE ELSE CAN ACHIEVE IT?
And no matter how many times people ask you how th ministry of death can help us. And other questions just like it. You continue to give vague or as someone said political answers instead of sticking to the point and coming out and responding to the actual question?
lET ME BE CLEAR THAT MINISTRY OF DEATH DOESN'T EXIST THAT IS WHY THE QUESTION CAN NOT BE ANSWERED, iT WAS REPLACED. ABOLISHED, IS NO MORE. GOD CAME AS JESUS CHRIST AND PAID DEARLY TO MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU THROUH A DIFFERENT WAY. NO AVOIDANCE HERE IT JUST CANT BE ANSWERED BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.
lET ME BE CLEAR THAT MINISTRY OF DEATH DOESN'T EXIST THAT IS WHY THE QUESTION CAN NOT BE ANSWERED, iT WAS REPLACED. ABOLISHED, IS NO MORE. GOD CAME AS JESUS CHRIST AND PAID DEARLY TO MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU THROUH A DIFFERENT WAY. NO AVOIDANCE HERE IT JUST CANT BE ANSWERED BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST.
How do we grow in christ, How do we learn to be christlike. How do we grow from babes in christ, to mature christians who look like him.
The first thing we do and we always do it, is show Him some respect and CAPITALIZE HIS NAME.
The first thing we do and we always do it, is show Him some respect and CAPITALIZE HIS NAME.
I do agree with you that these people tend to be overly antagonistic in their discussions.
My guess is that, over that extremely long thread "Faith and Works" started by dcontroversial, those that agree with him have formed some kind of clique, and they made it their personal mission to respond very aggressively against anyone who tries to argue that salvation is more than just faith alone.
Such a strange mission I must say. As an analogy, I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.
Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.
Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.
In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.
That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation.
I also don't understand why can't they just discuss cordially, share their point of view and try to understand opposing views, and agree to disagree and just recognize that its hard to change people's minds thru such discussions, especially if they are strangers to you.
Imagine if the Jews who are relaxing during that same Passover night gets overly antagonistic with those Jews who wanted to "help the blood". No point doing so right?
assuming you are finished with your tirade , I have one simple question-
why can't we use all of the New Testament instructional teaching to grow in righteousness ?
are those not sufficient ?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You think to much and it has you coming up with a lot of nonsense
You need to search inside my friend.
I have never given you my testimony. So once again you assume things not in evidence or that are not factual.
But keep talking. You keep proving what I say about you is correct not that that matters
What matters is what is true
Hey gb9,
I appreciate your kindness and I agree 100% with your words : "it can easily turn into " saved by grace, kept saved by works","
I agree with everything you said! Amazing isn't it? All this hubub is over an "assumption" of what you think I mean when I speak fondly of Gods Righteous Requirements!
Sincere question; Haven't you ever seen the wisdom and soundness of Gods Laws?
Hey Guojing,I do agree with you that these people tend to be overly antagonistic in their discussions.
My guess is that, over that extremely long thread "Faith and Works" started by dcontroversial, those that agree with him have formed some kind of clique, and they made it their personal mission to respond very aggressively against anyone who tries to argue that salvation is more than just faith alone.
Such a strange mission I must say. As an analogy, I can imagine two types of Jews on the Passover night in Egypt.
Some put their trust in the lamb blood, and just relax and enjoy the night, confident that it is sufficient.
Other Jews are more paranoid and try to help the blood with their works, praying fasting singing non stop to God.
In the end both houses first born are still saved because the blood at their doorpost is sufficient.
That is how I view this never ending argument about faith alone or faith and works for salvation.
I also don't understand why can't they just discuss cordially, share their point of view and try to understand opposing views, and agree to disagree and just recognize that its hard to change people's minds thru such discussions, especially if they are strangers to you.
Imagine if the Jews who are relaxing during that same Passover night gets overly antagonistic with those Jews who wanted to "help the blood". No point doing so right?
I like the way you framed that up!
They keep saying, some even admitting that they are drawing conclusions and assuming that we are saying all you need is obedience and no blood! When I was young there were guys in school that would walk up to me (the tall guy) and say; What did you say? After a while it was plain to see they just wanted to fight. I used to say to myself how silly to pretend someone said something to start a fight! Anyway, such is life, some people have a point to make or are insecure or are trying to assert themselves independent of anything they actually hear from me.
Pro 6:16-19 NIV There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: (17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, (18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, (19) a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
You would think as much as many of these guys quote Paul they would look at this one:
Tit 3:9 KJV But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
If we disagree on matters it is sensible to comment politly, but if you can't bridle your tongue as far as being harsh and hateful then we must all;
Pro 11:12 NASB He who despises his neighbor lacks sense, But a man of understanding keeps silent.
no, it is not a sincere question, it is trap question.
I answer " yes" you respond and say " then what do you have against them? " in would say " nothing " them you say " well, why don't do your best to follow them"
you see, the law and the Sabbath have NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION THROUGH FAITH IN CHIST.
and, once again, you have no comment on the Fruits of the Sprit.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Nice that you love to yell. We can here
2 they do not exist? That’s not what scripture says. The tablets written in stone are written so that the whole wold may be shut up because the whole world is guilty what is the penalty for
Not obeying ever word? According to Moses Paul and James. The curse of the law. What is the curse? Death
They very law you demand we all must follow curses you where you stand because you have failed to live by its requirements
Your argument is with the word. You screaming at me will not change that