Works can NEVER earn salvation

[Defenderofgrace]

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

John 19:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

 

[Guojing]

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

John 19:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Why do you think Abel was saved while Cain wasn't? What did God say to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Why do you think Abel was saved while Cain wasn't? What did God say to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7?

Hi Guojing, I believe that passage actually has far more to do with living our (Christian) lives, than it has to do with salvation.

That said, how was Abel saved in your opinion?

If, for instance, our sins can be forgiven by a proper sacrifice (by the blood of bulls and goats), and/or if we are saved by our obedience to God, then why did He send His Son here to both live on our behalf, and then to die for us? IOW, why the Incarnation, and why the Cross?

Thanks!

~Deut

Hebrews 9
22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Hebrews 10
4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
​

.

 

[Smooth]

Why do you think Abel was saved while Cain wasn't? What did God say to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7?

We’re living on the other side of the Cross than Cain and Able. We’re on the side of grace through faith.

 

[Guojing]

Hi Guojing, I believe that passage actually has far more to do with living our (Christian) lives, than it has to do with salvation.

That said, how was Abel saved in your opinion?

If, for instance, our sins can be forgiven by a proper sacrifice (by the blood of bulls and goats), and/or if we are saved by our obedience to God, then why did He send His Son here to both live on our behalf, and then to die for us? IOW, why the Incarnation, and why the Cross?

Thanks!

~Deut

Hebrews 9​

22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.​

​

Hebrews 10​

4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.​

​

.

Yes, Jesus had to eventually come of course. No one is denying that.

The question I am asking is what did God specifically say to Cain in that passage, what saith the scripture? Once people realized what was said, they will understand that there was a time before Christ, where works were required to show faith.

 

[Guojing]

We’re living on the other side of the Cross than Cain and Able. We’re on the side of grace through faith.

Yes, we are blessed in that way.

But what could Cain have done before the Cross, to be saved just like Abel was? Everyone can quote that Hebrews 11 passage about Abel but I am asking a simple question, what did Genesis 4:6-7 say?

 

[Smooth]

Yes, we are blessed in that way.

But what could Cain have done before the Cross, to be saved just like Abel was? Everyone can quote that Hebrews 11 passage about Abel but I am asking a simple question, what did Genesis 4:6-7 say?

You tell me.

 

[dcontroversal]

You tell me.

He will spin it to say faith plus works were required.....

Abel had faith
Cain did not

They both knew the story of the fall, they both knew God shed blood to cover the shame of Adam and EVE, they both knew the promise of Genesis 3:15

Abel in faith OFFERED blood
Cain without faith offered the works of his hands

The conclusion is simple

Hebrews states Abel had faith
Jude identifies CAIN as a false teacher

 

[Guojing]

You tell me.

In such forums, if people refuse to read and learn for themselves, you cannot make them do so.

 

[Guojing]

He will spin it to say faith plus works were required.....

Abel had faith
Cain did not

They both knew the story of the fall, they both knew God shed blood to cover the shame of Adam and EVE, they both knew the promise of Genesis 3:15

Abel in faith OFFERED blood
Cain without faith offered the works of his hands

The conclusion is simple

Hebrews states Abel had faith
Jude identifies CAIN as a false teacher

Why don't you quote that scripture I mentioned, in your argument, and tell us how you interpret that instead?

 

[dcontroversal]

Why don't you quote that scripture I mentioned, in your argument, and tell us how you interpret that instead?

Why don't you accept the truth of what I posted........no one loses salvation and no one needs works to be saved.....Romans 4 covers the O.T. saints.....

 

[Guojing]

Why don't you accept the truth of what I posted........no one loses salvation and no one needs works to be saved.....Romans 4 covers the O.T. saints.....

I guess my last point to Smooth was proven correct. Thanks.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Yes, Jesus had to eventually come of course. No one is denying that.

The question I am asking is what did God specifically say to Cain in that passage, what saith the scripture? Once people realized what was said, they will understand that there was a time before Christ, where works were required to show faith.

Hi again @Guojing, I would argue (with St. James) that works are still required to "show" faith .. e.g. James 2:18, but only before men, not before God, of course (who both knows the hearts of men, as well being the very One who justifies us).

We are saved by God's mercy and grace, through faith in the works that Jesus did for us/on our behalf (which includes both His righteous life, and His death on the Cross). Therefore, He is our only innocence, our only righteousness, and the only atonement and satisfaction before God for our sins.

2 Corinthians 5​

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

~Deut

 

[DJ3]

He will spin it to say faith plus works were required.....

Abel had faith
Cain did not

They both knew the story of the fall, they both knew God shed blood to cover the shame of Adam and EVE, they both knew the promise of Genesis 3:15

Abel in faith OFFERED blood
Cain without faith offered the works of his hands

The conclusion is simple

Hebrews states Abel had faith
Jude identifies CAIN as a false teacher

Abel "did" and was accepted.

Cain "did not" and was not accepted.

Clearly it is you who is spinning.

By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead. Hebrews 11:4

It was the offering that God spoke well of, not Abel's faith. He was commended as righteous when God spoke well of his offering.

Man, you just don't get it.

 

[Guojing]

Hi again @Guojing, I would argue (with St. James) that works are still required to "show" faith .. e.g. James 2:18, but only before men, not before God, of course (who both knows the hearts of men, as well being the very One who justifies us).

We are saved by God's mercy and grace, through faith in the works that Jesus did for us/on our behalf (which includes both His righteous life, and His death on the Cross). Therefore, He is our only innocence, our only righteousness, and the only atonement and satisfaction before God for our sins.

2 Corinthians 5​

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.​

~Deut

​

This popular idea of what James actually meant is, to me, reading into James. It assumes that James was such a bad communicator that he will need us to explain what he actually meant. But that is another topic for discussion.

Yes, I agree with you that we are saved NOW by grace thru faith in what Jesus did. But again, I am asking a very simple question, what did God say to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7 on what he could have done to get right with God? Why is it so hard for people to answer that question if they want to reply to one?

 

[Defenderofgrace]

Amen offered animal sacrifice.

Cain did not.

The blood was to foreshadow Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess my last point to Smooth was proven correct. Thanks.

You proved nothing....you have to speak truth to prove something....and make no mistake....that is something that you fail on incessantly.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Abel "did" and was accepted.

Cain "did not" and was not accepted.

Clearly it is you who is spinning.

By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead. Hebrews 11:4

It was the offering that God spoke well of, not Abel's faith. He was commended as righteous when God spoke well of his offering.

Man, you just don't get it.

Did you say something salvation loser/earner......no....nothing and you must be too dense to understand that HIS FAITH is why he makes HEBREWS....but hey...when one denies the faith and embellishes with works like you do....cannot expect much....two peas in a pod you are.

 

[Guojing]

Amen offered animal sacrifice.

Cain did not.

The blood was to foreshadow Jesus.

So the million dollar question is, "Was what Abel did then, a work?"

Likewise for the Jews in the OT, who had to bring an animal sacrifice every time they sinned, would they have considered doing that "a work"?

Discuss.

 

[Defenderofgrace]

Was what Abel did then, a work?

The answer is, Abel worked

My question for you is, why are you so focused on "works" in verse Genesis 4:6-7, since we have all shared the main point of the passage?