Faith is a work.

[fredoheaven]

Preston? a bible fundamentalist?umm?

 

[Pisteuo]

So faith is the absence of work.

No.

Faith or specifically faithing is not "a" work, it's work!

But the work or effort put into a Continually surrendered life changes from the beginning, through the testing ground, and being perfected. At the beginning we have the drawing of the Father, but no Spirit of Christ yet. In the testing ground, we have His presence but no Spirit of Christ yet. Towards the end, we receive the Spirit of Christ, but being closer to God means being further away. He's perfecting the surrendered life by causing us to trust Him more at a distance.

It could be said that the closer we get to God, the further away we feel.

 

[Pisteuo]

In an army setting where a soldier drops his gun, stops holding it, I don't really see that as work.

That's the perfect example. Surrender is a choice. We surrender everything to become a slave to the one surrendered to. We give up any rights of our own.

What doesn't fly is starting the surrendered life and retaining and exercising our right as if they are still our own. This shows God the surrendered life was not genuine. A half measure will avail nothing.

There's alot of work being a slave! Just a different kind.

 

[Pisteuo]

G4102 pistis from G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Total KJV occurrences: 244

Pistis is the noun in which we get our English word Faith, 4102 in the Strong's.
Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, 4100 .

The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does. This has caused irrepetible damage.

 

[Pisteuo]

In Hebrews 11:1, we read that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Now let's break down "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." It sounds to me like Vines is mixing the fruit of faith with the essence of faith and "on the surface" that may appear to support salvation by works, which would explain why those who teach salvation by faith + works are very fond of that definition.

When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ/reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:18; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance upon Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him.

The life inspired by such surrender which "follows" is the "fruit" of faith. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. If you believe in/have faith in/reliance upon Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief/faith (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions/works are NOT INHERENT in the belief/faith.

That's not what NT saving Faith is .

A surrender that has expectations of something in return " is not" a surrender, but a business deal. A vending machine kind of process.

 

[mailmandan]

That's not what NT saving Faith is .

A surrender that has expectations of something in return " is not" a surrender, but a business deal. A vending machine kind of process.

You continue to confuse the fruit of faith with the essence of faith and the end result is salvation through faith “plus” works.

 

[UnderGrace]

That's the perfect example. Surrender is a choice. We surrender everything to become a slave to the one surrendered to. We give up any rights of our own.

What doesn't fly is starting the surrendered life and retaining and exercising our right as if they are still our own. This shows God the surrendered life was not genuine. A half measure will avail nothing.

There's alot of work being a slave! Just a different kind.

What does a surrendered life look in its practical, temporal sense?

 

[Pisteuo]

You continue to confuse the fruit of faith with the essence of faith and the end result is salvation through faith “plus” works.

That's the problem, you start at the end result first before fulfilling pisteuo at the beginning. This makes your understanding illegitimate.

You first need to understand what the true application of Faith is first. The application we fulfill hundreds of times all day long. Then learn the specific act of Faithing that can just begin the relationship.

Your just a victim of the mistranslations like 99% of the church world of today. Digging in on it won't change this!

 

[Pisteuo]

What does a surrendered life look in its practical, temporal sense?

Thank you for asking a right question.

I hope your serious about looking at it.

I'll post it this evening on a new thread, with your exact question as the topic. I'll title it "the surrendered life."

Hope to get your feedback.

 

[preston39]

This view is not only false, but also does not come from one led by God......

If you followed G-d's word you would know the scripture.
Why aren't you showing it?

Scripture says it, so i beilieve it, basic english spelling says you are wrong. So, i really dont know what kind of "G_d" you have, also you didnt even come up with scripture to back tp your claim.

Show me where scripture says it?
I didn't post references because it is so common.

 

[Jackson123]

Faith is a noun.

faith noun
1. Absolute certainty in the trustworthiness of another:
belief, confidence, dependence, reliance, trust.

2. Mental acceptance of the truth or actuality of something:
belief, credence, credit.

3. A system of religious belief:
confession, creed, denomination, persuasion, religion, sect.

4. Those who accept and practice a particular religious belief:
church, communion, denomination, persuasion, sect.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/truth

I check in the dictionary, yes faith is noun

But if you read post by brother pisteuo seem there is conection between belief as noun and believe as verb.

To make it simple let me give you an analogy

I have a job in McDonald 8 hour a day as a cooker

Job is a noun and cooker is a noun

But when you have a job at McDonald as a cooker , than you cook every day

Cook is a verb. So the word job in that sentence tell that you work everyday.

Same as the word faith, it is noun but like brother pisteuo say your faith in Jesus course you enslave yourself to Jesus and it may take a lot of work and suffering like what happen to apostle Paul.

After he have faith in Jesus he suffer in the prison, people persecute him etc

 

[preston39]

1. Thanks for the e-mail...here is one. If you wish to reject it then you are not dealing with G-d's word;
2. Many scriptures supporting G-d's position;
3. Hebrews 9:27-28 KJV - And as it is appointed unto men once ...
   www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+9:27-28&version=KJV
   Hebrews 9:27-28 King James Version (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
   
   
   

 

[PS]

I check in the dictionary, yes faith is noun

But if you read post by brother pisteuo seem there is conection between belief as noun and believe as verb.

To make it simple let me give you an analogy

I have a job in McDonald 8 hour a day as a cooker

Job is a noun and cooker is a noun

But when you have a job at McDonald as a cooker , than you cook every day

Cook is a verb. So the word job in that sentence tell that you work everyday.

Same as the word faith, it is noun but like brother pisteuo say your faith in Jesus course you enslave yourself to Jesus and it may take a lot of work and suffering like what happen to apostle Paul.

After he have faith in Jesus he suffer in the prison, people persecute him etc

Sorry Jackson it does not work. Faith is a noun and apple is a noun. they are what we have or possess. They belong to us.

We go the God believing because we have faith in Him. It is our own personal faith. Without we have faith in Him we are lost

 

[dcontroversal]

If you followed G-d's word you would know the scripture.
Why aren't you showing it?



Show me where scripture says it?
I didn't post references because it is so common.

Did you say something....NO not really....and I do follow GOD'S word.......you on the other hand....fables, religiously inept bather and a spirit not found in scripture.....

I suggest that you fall on your knees, seek forgiveness for your sins and actually trust JESUS by faith

 

[cv5]

Wow....seems you have bought into new age religion stuff...not foreordained?.....not predestined?
I am a Bible fundamentalist. Scripture says what it says. Further, scripture carry's G-d's intent.

Sounds like you have been thru the Herbert W. Armstrong wringer, the JW wringer and a few others. If your Church is espousing those doctrines get out. Immediately. Find an orthodox Church that holds to something like the Westminster confession or similar.

 

[Jackson123]

Sorry Jackson it does not work. Faith is a noun and apple is a noun. they are what we have or possess. They belong to us.

We go the God believing because we have faith in Him. It is our own personal faith. Without we have faith in Him we are lost

It make sense. It smart respon. But we have to remember brother we can not have faith without believe in Jesus.

 

[Smooth]

Yup, "believe, believer, and believing" are verbs. Corresponding verbs to the noun Belief, not the noun Faith. They are also mistranslations.

The Greek word pisteuo couldn't be correctly translated into the English language. Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis. Pistis is where we get our noun Faith. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does.

The words the English language should have had for the translators to translate pisteuo are, faithe, faithing, and faither.

A verb, or pisteuo, is an act, "based upon a Belief", sustained by confidence.

So you can see that believe, believer, and believing are a part of NT saving Faith or faithing, but taken on there own is error.

What specifically is pisteuo or NT saving Faith?

Vines Greek dictionary: " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

The mistranslated words also change the object of Faithing from God Himself, a real living person, to God's word and the promises in His word. Big difference!

Are you saying Jesus is the faith?

 

[Smooth]

I doubt G-d appreciates you declaring yourself...saved...before His judgement.
Your references are out of context.
Study the Bible carefully so G-d is not offended.

I’m usualy weary of people who refuse to write the word GOD in its fullness. Too often they write pharisaical sentences like the one above.

 

[Pisteuo]

Are you saying Jesus is the faith?

Jesus is the object of Faith. The one faithed to. Like Jesus faithed into the Father, we faithe into Him.

 

[Smooth]

Then I am right: works matter.

I remember what Jesus said to this man who was healed by him :

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you."

That has to do with works, doesn't it?

Where is works in that Scripture?