Not By Works

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PS

PS

Senior Member
#103,322
Jan 11, 2013
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#103,322
Noose said:
Those verses pertain to a calling, but many are called yet few are chosen.

"As many believed, to them He gave the right to be called sons of God". He did not call them sons of God but gave them a right to be called sons of God.
You can a right to enter a door but still not enter it.
The mercy and grace of God covers everyone (whosoever). The calling covers that that believe in God's work. The chosen are those that endure to the end.
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As someone said, many are called to the feast but not many trust the giver of the feast to provide the robe.

That sounds like you. It does not matter how many good works you do it is that faith or trust in the giver of the feast that gets you chosen.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#103,324
#103,324
Noose said:
If you receive eternal life then you have eternal life and you can not have eternal life if you don't love others.
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Then you are stating something contrary to scripture, namely that one is not saved by the GRACE of God through faith, but by one's own ability to love their neighbour.

Many have tried to reason with you, what I find baffling is why people are not willing to trust God?

God does not need or want additional insurance policies on His grace, you need to trust Him, it is an all or nothing deal.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,325
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#103,325
PS said:
As someone said, many are called to the feast but not many trust the giver of the feast to provide the robe.

That sounds like you. It does not matter how many good works you do it is that faith or trust in the giver of the feast that gets you chosen.
Click to expand...

Isa 1:16Wash and cleanse yourselves. Remove your evil deeds from My sight. Stop doing evil! 17Learn to do right, seek justice, correct the oppressor, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.” 18“Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are as red as crimson, they will become like wool.

Isaiah 56:1
This is what the LORD says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for My salvation is coming soon, and My righteousness will be revealed.

Psalm 82:3
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; uphold the rights of the afflicted and oppressed.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,326
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#103,326
UnderGrace said:
Then you are stating something contrary to scripture, namely that one is not saved by the GRACE of God through faith, but by one's own ability to love their neighbour.

Many have tried to reason with you, what I find baffling is why people are not willing to trust God?

God does not need or want additional insurance policies on His grace, you need to trust Him, it is an all or nothing deal.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean our own ability to love, it is still God's doing but it isn't faith alone.
The basis is obedience:

1 Sam 15:22 But Samuel declared: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD?Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice, and attentiveness is better than the fat of rams.


Atoning works of the cross is mercy and grace and love for all, but obeying His command is becoming one with Him who overcame all on our behalf. The command is love one another. If you don't obey the Lord you can not be one with Him despite your belief in the atoning works on the cross. If your not in Him and Him in you, your belief is futile.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#103,327
#103,327
Noose said:
I didn't mean our own ability to love, it is still God's doing but it isn't faith alone.
The basis is obedience:

1 Sam 15:22 But Samuel declared: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD?Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice, and attentiveness is better than the fat of rams.


Atoning works of the cross is mercy and grace and love for all, but obeying His command is becoming one with Him who overcame all on our behalf. The command is love one another. If you don't obey the Lord you can not be one with Him despite your belief in the atoning works on the cross. If your not in Him and Him in you, your belief is futile.
Click to expand...
Well I can only reiterate what has been stated, our actions or lack thereof....... do not contribute to, maintain, or cause the loss of salvation.

We neither willed our way, nor worked our way, into the covenant to start with.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#103,328
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#103,328
Noose said:
Isa 1:16Wash and cleanse yourselves. Remove your evil deeds from My sight. Stop doing evil! 17Learn to do right, seek justice, correct the oppressor, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.” 18“Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are as red as crimson, they will become like wool.

Isaiah 56:1
This is what the LORD says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for My salvation is coming soon, and My righteousness will be revealed.

Psalm 82:3
Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; uphold the rights of the afflicted and oppressed.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Click to expand...
The first three O/T scriptures are covered by the cross. The last verse describes practical Christianity that comes about as a result of the cross by which we are saved.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#103,329
#103,329
Noose said:
I didn't mean our own ability to love, it is still God's doing but it isn't faith alone.
The basis is obedience:

1 Sam 15:22 But Samuel declared: “Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD?Behold, obedience is better than sacrifice, and attentiveness is better than the fat of rams.


Atoning works of the cross is mercy and grace and love for all, but obeying His command is becoming one with Him who overcame all on our behalf. The command is love one another. If you don't obey the Lord you can not be one with Him despite your belief in the atoning works on the cross. If your not in Him and Him in you, your belief is futile.
Click to expand...
Well Noose, I will admit you are tenacious.

The final question.....

How much obedience secures salvation?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,332
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#103,332
UnderGrace said:
Well I can only reiterate what has been stated, our actions or lack thereof....... do not contribute to, maintain, or cause the loss of salvation.

We neither willed our way, nor worked our way, into the covenant to start with.
Click to expand...
What about those that are lost (not saved), did they will it? is it God that chooses them for hell? Is there anything they do to make them candidates of hell?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,333
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#103,333
PS said:
The first three O/T scriptures are covered by the cross. The last verse describes practical Christianity that comes about as a result of the cross by which we are saved.
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So it is faith + works (practical Christianity) then.

Keeping yourself from being defiled by the world was not taken care by the cross is what you are confirming, right?
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#103,336
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#103,336
PS said:
Being a practising Christian does not save you, it is the result of being saved.
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So why bother?

Matt 5:15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father inheaven.

1 Tim 6:18Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, and to begenerous and ready to share, 19treasuring up for themselves a firm foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life

Ephesians 4:28
He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing good with his own hands, that he may have something to share with the one in need.

All these + many more means nothing. In fact all scripture means nothing according to you:

2 Tim 3:16AllScripture is God-breathed and is useful forinstruction, for conviction, for correction, and fortraining in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#103,337
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#103,337
Noose said:
Keeping yourself from being defiled by the world was not taken care by the cross is what you are confirming, right?
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I do have the ability by virtue of my free will to deny Christ and go back into the world, but I have no desire to do that.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#103,338
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#103,338
Noose said:
So why bother?

Matt 5:15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father inheaven.

1 Tim 6:18Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, and to begenerous and ready to share, 19treasuring up for themselves a firm foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life

Ephesians 4:28
He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing good with his own hands, that he may have something to share with the one in need.

All these + many more means nothing. In fact all scripture means nothing according to you:

2 Tim 3:16AllScripture is God-breathed and is useful forinstruction, for conviction, for correction, and fortraining in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
Click to expand...
Why bother helping others, which either wrongly or rightly I thought I was doing with you? I do it because of my love for Christ and His creation.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,339
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#103,339
PS said:
I do have the ability by virtue of my free will to deny Christ and go back into the world, but I have no desire to do that.
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I think between me and you, you are more confused.
The idea behind 'Not by works' is that salvation is not anything we do or will but through grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus. It means once it is done, you can not will it back even if you wanted.

But you are saying, if you want to turn back you can only that you don't have the desire:confused:
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#103,340
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#103,340
PS said:
Why bother helping others, which either wrongly or rightly I thought I was doing with you? I do it because of my love for Christ and His creation.
Click to expand...
What happens if you don't love? are you still saved if you don't love others?
 
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