Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Once it's pasteurized, what's the point? Just another dead food item we purchase off the shelf that doesn't nourish our body. Making it at home is wonderfully, good for you. Have you tried Kimchee? I make the vegan style imitation, so good!

I'll be checking back to see what you have to say about Paul. He's probably the most controversial person in the scripture. I don't understand all he says, but one thing I know for sure...unless one has a good grasp on Torah there is no way to understand Paul.

I agree

Thats why so many do not understand when paul said the torah was created as a schoolmaster to lead people to christ. And thats it. It was NOT made to make us righteous, or show us the means to how to be righteous (morally good) He meant it

because they fail to grasp the torah..

 

[SimpleGardner]

Romans 1:7
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people

Romans 1:14-15
I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish.

Romans 1:16
to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.


Romans 2:17
Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God

Romans 6:3
all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus

Romans 8:23
we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit

Running out of steam...Another big day tomorrow. Hope to reread all of this and talk about in on Wed. SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

Once it's pasteurized, what's the point? Just another dead food item we purchase off the shelf that doesn't nourish our body. Making it at home is wonderfully, good for you. Have you tried Kimchee? I make the vegan style imitation, so good!

I'll be checking back to see what you have to say about Paul. He's probably the most controversial person in the scripture. I don't understand all he says, but one thing I know for sure...unless one has a good grasp on Torah there is no way to understand Paul.

Agreed, good to the taste buds too. Most of all it's sustainable! This can be done without electricity or man made containers! You can craft your own crock and this stuff will last at room temp for over a year (not in my house! ) as long as you keep the kraut submerged! Survival stuff yeah, but most of all all natural.

Kimchee! Eaten et and had planned to make it with my spring cabbage but ran out. Started my fall cabbage with that in mind. I want to make some a bit less nuclear in heat! Have you ever done a batch like that? Would you be wiling to share your recipe? Here's a great site Wild Fermentation Forum

You are correct about Paul being hard to understand. Peter thought so too'

2Pe 3:16 NIV He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Hard hitting to say the least!

Even James asked Paul to make a vow and show everyone he kept the Torah Laws;

Act 21:17-26 NIV When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. (18) The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. (19) Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. (20) When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. (21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. (22) What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, (23) so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. (24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. (25) As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." (26) The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

I'm heading off to sleep now, but please remind me who I owe discussion on Paul to? Is that PH? I appreciate PH's calm disposition. He strikes me as a humble soul too. I appreciate that probably more than I can put to words.

 

[Karraster]

Agreed, good to the taste buds too. Most of all it's sustainable! This can be done without electricity or man made containers! You can craft your own crock and this stuff will last at room temp for over a year (not in my house! ) as long as you keep the kraut submerged! Survival stuff yeah, but most of all all natural.

Kimchee! Eaten et and had planned to make it with my spring cabbage but ran out. Started my fall cabbage with that in mind. I want to make some a bit less nuclear in heat! Have you ever done a batch like that? Would you be wiling to share your recipe? Here's a great site Wild Fermentation Forum

You are correct about Paul being hard to understand. Peter thought so too'

2Pe 3:16 NIV He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Hard hitting to say the least!

Even James asked Paul to make a vow and show everyone he kept the Torah Laws;

Act 21:17-26 NIV When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. (18) The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. (19) Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. (20) When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. (21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. (22) What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, (23) so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. (24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. (25) As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." (26) The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

I'm heading off to sleep now, but please remind me who I owe discussion on Paul to? Is that PH? I appreciate PH's calm disposition. He strikes me as a humble soul too. I appreciate that probably more than I can put to words.

Thanks for the fermenting link, bookmarked. I've never make pottery but have always wanted to. Here is a rough idea of what goes into my chimchee, and a hand held shredder can be used instead of a blender but I 10-1 rather use the blender, good to have the others tho, right?
a young napa cabbage, sea salt and whatever method you like for the wilting stage, rinse
1/2 c veg stock, a starch componet, (cooked potatoe or rice) about 3 T, a sugar component (persimmon, pear, apple) peel, core, shred or dice
Now then, get creative and add what you like in a blender. What I have on hand works for me, and the taste will always be different, ya know? So many variables. I like onion, garlic, fresh red chillies and/or Korean chili flakes, daikon (raddish) shredded carrot, sweet potatoe, Korean soy sauce ....puree all this and add to the cabbage, toss in some green onions. Adjust amounts according to taste. So good! I make it different every time. So versatile, even for breakfast stirred into scrambled eggs just barely warming it. (don't want to kill off those good probiotics.)

Isn't it ironic, Paul the Pharisee an apostle to the gentiles? You hear an expression pertaining to true stories of our time, "you cant make this stuff up!" Never was it more pertinent than to this situation. Are you familiar with "the dog that didn't bark"? A Sherlock Holms intrigue, but wow, again, applicable in this case as evidence Torah was not made null and void. No barking dog. Imagine the uproar amongst the other apostles, those who knew the truth, if Paul had been teaching against Torah. Over the centuries people have convinced themselves and others Paul says don't obey the law just ask Jesus into your heart, and then your heart will tell you what to do you ain't gotta worry about that Bible anymore. If the Bible was read it would clearly say:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? and
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thanks for the fermenting link, bookmarked. I've never make pottery but have always wanted to. Here is a rough idea of what goes into my chimchee, and a hand held shredder can be used instead of a blender but I 10-1 rather use the blender, good to have the others tho, right?
a young napa cabbage, sea salt and whatever method you like for the wilting stage, rinse
1/2 c veg stock, a starch componet, (cooked potatoe or rice) about 3 T, a sugar component (persimmon, pear, apple) peel, core, shred or dice
Now then, get creative and add what you like in a blender. What I have on hand works for me, and the taste will always be different, ya know? So many variables. I like onion, garlic, fresh red chillies and/or Korean chili flakes, daikon (raddish) shredded carrot, sweet potatoe, Korean soy sauce ....puree all this and add to the cabbage, toss in some green onions. Adjust amounts according to taste. So good! I make it different every time. So versatile, even for breakfast stirred into scrambled eggs just barely warming it. (don't want to kill off those good probiotics.)

Isn't it ironic, Paul the Pharisee an apostle to the gentiles? You hear an expression pertaining to true stories of our time, "you cant make this stuff up!" Never was it more pertinent than to this situation. Are you familiar with "the dog that didn't bark"? A Sherlock Holms intrigue, but wow, again, applicable in this case as evidence Torah was not made null and void. No barking dog. Imagine the uproar amongst the other apostles, those who knew the truth, if Paul had been teaching against Torah. Over the centuries people have convinced themselves and others Paul says don't obey the law just ask Jesus into your heart, and then your heart will tell you what to do you ain't gotta worry about that Bible anymore. If the Bible was read it would clearly say:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? and
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Greetings K,

I take it you are talking about pequines for the fresh red chilis aren't you? The very small peppers that pack a punch? I'm hearing the ingredients and thinking of a 1/2 gal mason jars worth so for sweet taters roughly 1/4 to 1/2 cup, 4-5 med carrots shredded, qtys like that? Then puree all the details! Okay, that will get it working! Do you use a bubbler or burp lid? Korean soy sauce, that'll take a trip to the big town for sure. Yeah, this is gonna get done with some fall cabbage Lord willing and the socialists don't take my homestead! Hey, I don't think we have a right to complain when we, the called out ones have "let slide" the principles and order of Gods will from our govt, schools, churches, etc for so long! What do we expect? It's 2 Chron 7:14 time! Just this verse alone makes me think how much we need the guiding, no governing laws, commandments, ordinances....Na. let this verse in 1 Kings sum it up!;

1Ki 2:3 KJV And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

Back to sleep, had to get up and run off a BIG racoon feasting on my corn! Or what's left of it. Harvested it all yesterday and chopped it down. Talking about steal, kill and destroy! Are raccoons satanic? "But they are so cute!" Not from a homestead perspective! Used to trap and relocate them, but the Game warden said NO NO, disease migration. You know what they recommend.


Yeah, my line of questioning for EG and Gpa was to dig in on their growth through osmosis position, and believe it or not I can see the power of the Holy Spirit making tremendous progress in a mans heart But, the Holy Spirit has always been there, driving me to the word of God. My closest times with God have been in His word! Maybe that's just me, but I always felt compelled to share testimony on that esp when other brothers and sisters recount the exact same experiences. Sectarian religions! Sheesh!

I recognize a tight controlled, narrow doctrinal band focusing on "GRACE" and its nemesis! The Law/commandments of God!

 

[Karraster]

Greetings K,

I take it you are talking about pequines for the fresh red chilis aren't you? The very small peppers that pack a punch? I'm hearing the ingredients and thinking of a 1/2 gal mason jars worth so for sweet taters roughly 1/4 to 1/2 cup, 4-5 med carrots shredded, qtys like that? Then puree all the details! Okay, that will get it working! Do you use a bubbler or burp lid? Korean soy sauce, that'll take a trip to the big town for sure. Yeah, this is gonna get done with some fall cabbage Lord willing and the socialists don't take my homestead! Hey, I don't think we have a right to complain when we, the called out ones have "let slide" the principles and order of Gods will from our govt, schools, churches, etc for so long! What do we expect? It's 2 Chron 7:14 time! Just this verse alone makes me think how much we need the guiding, no governing laws, commandments, ordinances....Na. let this verse in 1 Kings sum it up!;

1Ki 2:3 KJV And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

Back to sleep, had to get up and run off a BIG racoon feasting on my corn! Or what's left of it. Harvested it all yesterday and chopped it down. Talking about steal, kill and destroy! Are raccoons satanic? "But they are so cute!" Not from a homestead perspective! Used to trap and relocate them, but the Game warden said NO NO, disease migration. You know what they recommend.


Yeah, my line of questioning for EG and Gpa was to dig in on their growth through osmosis position, and believe it or not I can see the power of the Holy Spirit making tremendous progress in a mans heart But, the Holy Spirit has always been there, driving me to the word of God. My closest times with God have been in His word! Maybe that's just me, but I always felt compelled to share testimony on that esp when other brothers and sisters recount the exact same experiences. Sectarian religions! Sheesh!

I recognize a tight controlled, narrow doctrinal band focusing on "GRACE" and its nemesis! The Law/commandments of God!

I can see I'm dealing with one who knows his way around a kitchen. 1/2 gal it is. I don't have a burp lid, just burp it a few time a day making sure to have it on a tray just in case, and I leave the lid a bit loose anyway. I've read you can use a balloon secured on top. I go easy on the chilies, never ever include the seed! I knew I forgot something, ginger. The ginger is what makes it, I use a piece about the size of my pinky finger. Know how to peel ginger, with a spoon? Anyhow, I reread my recipe and should have indicated I don't puree the carrots, but you can either way. The soy sauce is what gives the pungent flavor since it doesn't have fish sauce. Well worth a trip to town. lol

We've had our share of woes over raccoons. You are right they are adorable looking, but looks can be deceiving. Little rascals. Ever notice no 2 look alike? Isn't that amazing, their little faces easily distinguishable from each other, such various facial markings.

I see law and grace as bread and water. Law is bread of life (Yeshua) grace is living water (Yeshua) to help wash it down. What would one be without the other?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thanks for the fermenting link, bookmarked. I've never make pottery but have always wanted to. Here is a rough idea of what goes into my chimchee, and a hand held shredder can be used instead of a blender but I 10-1 rather use the blender, good to have the others tho, right?
a young napa cabbage, sea salt and whatever method you like for the wilting stage, rinse
1/2 c veg stock, a starch componet, (cooked potatoe or rice) about 3 T, a sugar component (persimmon, pear, apple) peel, core, shred or dice
Now then, get creative and add what you like in a blender. What I have on hand works for me, and the taste will always be different, ya know? So many variables. I like onion, garlic, fresh red chillies and/or Korean chili flakes, daikon (raddish) shredded carrot, sweet potatoe, Korean soy sauce ....puree all this and add to the cabbage, toss in some green onions. Adjust amounts according to taste. So good! I make it different every time. So versatile, even for breakfast stirred into scrambled eggs just barely warming it. (don't want to kill off those good probiotics.)

Isn't it ironic, Paul the Pharisee an apostle to the gentiles? You hear an expression pertaining to true stories of our time, "you cant make this stuff up!" Never was it more pertinent than to this situation. Are you familiar with "the dog that didn't bark"? A Sherlock Holms intrigue, but wow, again, applicable in this case as evidence Torah was not made null and void. No barking dog. Imagine the uproar amongst the other apostles, those who knew the truth, if Paul had been teaching against Torah. Over the centuries people have convinced themselves and others Paul says don't obey the law just ask Jesus into your heart, and then your heart will tell you what to do you ain't gotta worry about that Bible anymore. If the Bible was read it would clearly say:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? and
Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Oh, and thanks for sharing the recipe!

 

[Grandpa]

Okay, That's an important aspect of your walk that helps me know your take on many things. I appreciate you sharing this.

Do you identify with or claim any particular religion or denomination?

Sincerely SG

I would say I 'identify' with Reformed Theology.

As far as denominations go I like the preaching of the Lutherans and Presbyterians but I find their worship falls a little flat. I like Charismatic and Pentecostal worship.

Do you identify with or claim any particular religion or denomination?

 

[Grandpa]

I agree

Thats why so many do not understand when paul said the torah was created as a schoolmaster to lead people to christ. And thats it. It was NOT made to make us righteous, or show us the means to how to be righteous (morally good) He meant it

because they fail to grasp the torah..

I think it is caused by people not coming to Christ. I think it is impossible to understand Torah AND/OR Paul without first coming to Christ.

I think people can be saved by reading the New Testament alone.

If they want to find out how and why it came about then the Old Testament is where most of that is. But the means to Salvation is not in the OT. Only its prophetic coming is in there which is the NT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I Do believe one could be saved by reading the OT. All OT saints were saved, and as Paul said. Timothy had knowledge as a child in which he could be saved. And I am sure all he had was the OT.

Salvation has always been by faith in God.. The difference is, we know what Gods provision was.. They were not sure, in fact, I think paul called it the hidden mystery.

But I agree. People who do not know christ do not understand. If they did, they would not keep trying to go back to the thing which condemns them, and saying thats what makes them holy or christlike

 

[Grandpa]

I Do believe one could be saved by reading the OT. All OT saints were saved, and as Paul said. Timothy had knowledge as a child in which he could be saved. And I am sure all he had was the OT.

Salvation has always been by faith in God.. The difference is, we know what Gods provision was.. They were not sure, in fact, I think paul called it the hidden mystery.

But I agree. People who do not know christ do not understand. If they did, they would not keep trying to go back to the thing which condemns them, and saying thats what makes them holy or christlike

I don't think the OT saints were saved because they read the OT.

I think the OT saints were saved because God personally came and told them and showed them what He Wanted.

I think it may be possible to read the NT, having already a faith in Christ, and being led to salvation by what is written there.

I'm not 100% sure about these statements. Its just kind of an off the cuff response.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think the OT saints were saved because they read the OT.

I think the OT saints were saved because God personally came and told them and showed them what He Wanted.

I think it may be possible to read the NT, having already a faith in Christ, and being led to salvation by what is written there.

I'm not 100% sure about these statements. Its just kind of an off the cuff response.

Oh I firmly believe one can read ephesians, or one of the gospels alone, or even take the romans road as we call it. And come to christ.

I think David understood, the law did not make him righteous (sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire) he just came to faith in God for all things..

But I can see what you are saying also.

 

[Grandpa]

Oh I firmly believe one can read ephesians, or one of the gospels alone, or even take the romans road as we call it. And come to christ.

I think David understood, the law did not make him righteous (sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire) he just came to faith in God for all things..

But I can see what you are saying also.

Two sides of the same coin probably.

If we are saved by our understanding then it is God who has given us this understanding to begin with.

And I suppose He very easily could have given His OT saints the understanding of Salvation through the OT.

What is impossible with God?

 

[SimpleGardner]

I can see I'm dealing with one who knows his way around a kitchen. 1/2 gal it is. I don't have a burp lid, just burp it a few time a day making sure to have it on a tray just in case, and I leave the lid a bit loose anyway. I've read you can use a balloon secured on top. I go easy on the chilies, never ever include the seed! I knew I forgot something, ginger. The ginger is what makes it, I use a piece about the size of my pinky finger. Know how to peel ginger, with a spoon? Anyhow, I reread my recipe and should have indicated I don't puree the carrots, but you can either way. The soy sauce is what gives the pungent flavor since it doesn't have fish sauce. Well worth a trip to town. lol

We've had our share of woes over raccoons. You are right they are adorable looking, but looks can be deceiving. Little rascals. Ever notice no 2 look alike? Isn't that amazing, their little faces easily distinguishable from each other, such various facial markings.

I see law and grace as bread and water. Law is bread of life (Yeshua) grace is living water (Yeshua) to help wash it down. What would one be without the other?

I like the analogy! Never tried peeling ginger with a spoon....Sounds like a way to save more ginger. I have been meaning to grow my own for a few years now and I just need to try! Just mixed a batch of Ginger/carrot/garlic kraut. 2nd batch if that tells you anything!

I would say I 'identify' with Reformed Theology.

As far as denominations go I like the preaching of the Lutherans and Presbyterians but I find their worship falls a little flat. I like Charismatic and Pentecostal worship.

Do you identify with or claim any particular religion or denomination?

Fair question,

I was raised going to Catholic church but at 9 yo the Holy Spirit opened my eyes! It was an unusual age to have an epiphany but there it as and the reason was sound and my mind was awash with thoughts of empty doctrines and entrenched dogmas and priest employees and the truth that the priests were all far more worldly than my dad who was/is a sincere man who loves God, but is, to me, blind to the deeper truths about the evils within the hierarchy of the RCC.

After successfully winning my request to stop going to the RCC I was a sincere Bible reader, and wanted to see what the variances there were between both the ethos and doctrines of the AOC. Close friends, but entrenched in ungodly thinking and practices.

I now fellowship with individuals who love the Word of God and who ascribe to the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I don't think the OT saints were saved because they read the OT.

I think the OT saints were saved because God personally came and told them and showed them what He Wanted.

I think it may be possible to read the NT, having already a faith in Christ, and being led to salvation by what is written there.

I'm not 100% sure about these statements. Its just kind of an off the cuff response.

I'm going to think about these. Thanks Out to sweat some more!

Talk soon

SG

 

[Dan_473]

Makes you realize not only the reason but also the difference between the "Letter of the Law" and the "Spirit of the Law" and how the Holy Spirt leads us. Thank God for the wisdom and knowledge of God for the common sense to be able to discern between the times and the relevance and/or irrelevance of each of the laws that past away and/or was changed. Do you think common sense comes from a gift of God direct, or from study in the Word of God as a gift. I think He may gift people but more than not it comes from studying. I know for me it, it has been a huge leap. Some questions people ask can't be answered by another person, they can only be found, one on one with God in deep study. Some people get so mad when you tell them to find the answer in the bible themselves. And even with deep study, He gives it to you in His time not yours. Don't you agree?
Do you think that the rapist had to marry the girl because she was considered "not clean" after and as such would never marry and it was a way to make sure she did? Do you think there were many rapists? I think society was much different.
Where did it say the girl had to marry the rapist? I thought they were to be stoned to death? I have always found comfort in that. I think that all rapists and murderers should be stoned in public with the family allowed to throw the first stone. I think if we followed Gods laws on this today there would be much less of it happening.

The good side is it must have worked out really well for those star crossed lovers from different tribes who were told they would never be together, and they couldn't live without each other. But as with everything in this life it is the battle between Good and Evil every step of the way isn't it? People seem to forget that Everything is vanity. The only things that truly count are of the Sprititual world even here even now. God even tells us how fleeting this life is. I guess when you can divide a spirit from a soul it doesn't take to much flesh life to see how much of what we did back then was of love and goodness and strength and courage, or an evil influence or if the evil was really a part of us and we can't overcome. I know I can't wait till Judgment Day either.

Hi DeighAnn,
I haven't heard from you in a while.
Deuteronomy 22: 28. If a man find a lady who is a virgin, who is not pledged to be married, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29. then the man who lay with her shall give to the lady's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has humbled her; he may not put her away all his days.

What are your feelings about the above passage? It looks like if the victim is a virgin who is not engaged, then the rapist doesn't get stoned. I see too that they have to be discovered. Maybe in that culture the testimony of the woman wasn't considered valid?

In your post above you talk about being led by the spirit. Do you mean that in some cases we would set aside the letter of the law and go with the thrust of it? The main idea?

If so I could definitely go with that. Use the law as a general guideline, but not think of yourself as being bound by the letter of it.

And I would think too that the spirit might lead one person to keep a particular law differently than another person. One person is led to put blue tassels on their jacket, another person is not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Two sides of the same coin probably.

If we are saved by our understanding then it is God who has given us this understanding to begin with.

And I suppose He very easily could have given His OT saints the understanding of Salvation through the OT.

What is impossible with God?

I do not think they had to believe as we do. In christ. Abraham believed God and it was acounted to him as righteousness. Abraham had no idea Christ would die on the cross.

 

[Dan_473]

No, Not saying that.

I see.
What is your answer then to your question of who was under covenant when Jesus walked the Earth? I assume you mean before Jesus death.

And does this figure into it? that there were people from the northern kingdom living in Judah?
2 Chronicles 15: 9. And he got together all Judah and Benjamin and those of Ephraim and Manasseh and Simeon who were living with them; for numbers of them came to him out of Israel when they saw that the Lord his God was with him.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I would say I 'identify' with Reformed Theology.

As far as denominations go I like the preaching of the Lutherans and Presbyterians but I find their worship falls a little flat. I like Charismatic and Pentecostal worship.

Do you identify with or claim any particular religion or denomination?

I was thinking of the tenets of Reformed Theology and they remind me of a book I read years ago, and liked very much called "Victory In Christ" by Charles G Trumbull. Ever heard of that one?

I think it is caused by people not coming to Christ. I think it is impossible to understand Torah AND/OR Paul without first coming to Christ.

I think people can be saved by reading the New Testament alone.

If they want to find out how and why it came about then the Old Testament is where most of that is. But the means to Salvation is not in the OT. Only its prophetic coming is in there which is the NT.

Interesting diaog, but you need to clarify a bit about the first few decades of the "New Testament" churches where they had no New Testament and no churches.

 

[NayborBear]

Agreed, good to the taste buds too. Most of all it's sustainable! This can be done without electricity or man made containers! You can craft your own crock and this stuff will last at room temp for over a year (not in my house! ) as long as you keep the kraut submerged! Survival stuff yeah, but most of all all natural.

Kimchee! Eaten et and had planned to make it with my spring cabbage but ran out. Started my fall cabbage with that in mind. I want to make some a bit less nuclear in heat! Have you ever done a batch like that? Would you be wiling to share your recipe? Here's a great site Wild Fermentation Forum

You are correct about Paul being hard to understand. Peter thought so too'

2Pe 3:16 NIV He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Hard hitting to say the least!

Even James asked Paul to make a vow and show everyone he kept the Torah Laws;

Act 21:17-26 NIV When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly. (18) The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. (19) Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. (20) When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. (21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. (22) What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, (23) so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. (24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. (25) As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." (26) The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

I'm heading off to sleep now, but please remind me who I owe discussion on Paul to? Is that PH? I appreciate PH's calm disposition. He strikes me as a humble soul too. I appreciate that probably more than I can put to words.

I so TOTALLY agree with ya Brother!

Many many believers in futile attempts of rationalizing things "Spiritually discerned?"

Fit into this "pigeon hole!"

The Socinians held to a rationalistic approach to Scripture and to faith. This philosophical approach, especially in regard to biblical doctrine, declares that all religious matters must be fully reconcilable with human reason, and that theological matters pertaining to the nature of God cannot be beyond the finite understanding of the human mind.

IOW? Faith and Empiricism, much like oil and water? Do NOT mix!

What one sees in many postings, is the result, and some have refined this into an art form, is that much the same as oil and water? "Keep SHAKING it!"

Tis the "another law in their members", that keeps it shaking. And, the gross UNDERESTIMATING of the adversary/ies WITHIN!

In their defense however? Love COVERS a multitude of sin! Which is the "why" there is no condemnation for those who are IN Christ!

But? As Christ said:
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

This is what happens when coming unto the Cross of Christ is, or becomes one's "FINAL Destination!"
Romans 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Foregoing, or believing, we/they have been, or are absolved of, or have become willingly ignorant of? Unlike Paul who was keenly aware of:
Romans 7
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Tis a "hair-splitting process" this is! Especially when it is the Father doin' the hair splitting!
Hebrews 4
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

As far as the "law of Moses?"
This is the process of (how can I say) of one's "walking with the Father", laterally! In (how can I say) in a "back tracking, in faith and obedience" to the root from which "Christianity" came! That is to say, Israel! Of the which, is where us gentiles SHOULD aspire in our keeping of! THIS? Should be our goal, in our fulfilling "the fulness of the gentiles!"