I HAVE DECIDED TO POST NO NEW THREADS,UNLESS I RECIEVE CHAISTISEMENT FROM GOD! I AM GOING TO GET TO .....KNOW....YOU ALL THROUGH .....YOUR....POST!🙏

[Noose]

^ Yes, that's why I pointed out vv.7-8 "the stewardship" entrusted to Paul: "nor to give heed to myths and endless genealogies, which bring speculations rather than God's stewardship, which is in faith." 1Tim1:4

Lk16:1-18 says that others [before Paul's time] were going to be "put out of the stewardship"... "for thou mayest no longer steward"... and "my lord taketh away my stewardship" (etc).

Pertains to having a body of truth to convey, and Paul said in 1Cor15:1-4 just what that [his assigned task (of msg) to convey] covers (among other passages like Eph3, Rom16:25-26, and this [in same context as 2:2] 2Tim2:7-8<---which is why I specifically pointed this one out [the content, i.e. the stewardship!])

Stewardship/teachers/ instructors as used in those passages do not contradict with Jesus' command not to be called teachers and instructors. Their work was to shepherd people and bring them to the gospel or create a conducive environment for the gospel which was with God's appointees only.

We see God in the OT complain and as much as He complained then, it was a prophesy which is much more applicable in our times:

Jer 23:21
I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied.

Jeremiah 14:14
"The prophets are prophesying lies in My name," the LORD replied. "I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them.

Jeremiah 23:32
"Indeed," declares the LORD, "I am against those who prophesy false dreams they tell to lead My people astray with their reckless lies. It was not I who sent or commanded them, and they are of no benefit at all to these people," declares the LORD.

2 Tim 1:10And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, apostle, and teacher.

The effects of self appointment are there to be seen; divisions is churches and thousands of antagonizing doctrines.

 

[Noose]

This is incorrect. When God calls a man to do a work He also gives him the spiritual gifts to do that. The spiritual gifts which are still in operation are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The apostles and prophets are found within the Bible itself.

EPHESIANS 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

ROMANS 12
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

They all ceased.

Heb 2:
3how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?

This salvation was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4and was affirmed by God through signs, wonders, various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.

 

[Noose]

I think its more we are witnesses than teachers. But then God does appoint teachers in the church as part of ministry, so as long as we spread His word, those words of His will be the ones teaching. We just His mouthpiece.

I think the idea of teaching is that we also show by example what Christ is like. If anyone has tuaght a child this is what its like, you cant just tell a child to do something and they will get it straight away. You have to explain and show many examples. You sometimes need to break it down step by step.

There's only one teacher and instructor, his name is Jesus.

God's appointments from day 1 has always been physical appointment without a shadow of doubt, even dramatic like in the case of Jonah. It has not been in a questionable manner like graduation from theology school/ dreams/ feelings/simple miraculous works.

 

[tourist]

so we started out with one thing and now gonna end up in arms over OSAS?

or even better...can we know we are saved now or do we only hope we are?

Maybe we can cross our fingers too to hedge our bets.

 

[Deade]

There's only one teacher and instructor, his name is Jesus.

God's appointments from day 1 has always been physical appointment without a shadow of doubt, even dramatic like in the case of Jonah. It has not been in a questionable manner like graduation from theology school/ dreams/ feelings/simple miraculous works.

Ultimately yes, the Holy Spirit which gives us access to Jesus and the Father is the main teacher. But that Spirit allows us to teach, exhort and even prophesy according to our varied gifts. You have taken an ultra-dispensationalist approach to scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

They all ceased.

TOTALLY FALSE. As long as the Church is on earth, there are a multitude of spiritual gifts within the Church.

 

[Noose]

Ultimately yes, the Holy Spirit which gives us access to Jesus and the Father is the main teacher. But that Spirit allows us to teach, exhort and even prophesy according to our varied gifts. You have taken an ultra-dispensationalist approach to scripture.

What does this mean?

Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,e ”
declares the LORD.

33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.

34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
For I will forgive their iniquities
and will remember their sins no more.”

 

[Noose]

TOTALLY FALSE. As long as the Church is on earth, there are a multitude of spiritual gifts within the Church.

The church you are talking about is a physical one, the church God was talking about is a spiritual one.

Luke 17:20When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”c

Nor will people say, "see those over there that do miracles and these that operate in gifts, and these that preach"
No observable signs means no observable signs.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ignorant?...... it is more ignorant to conclude one is saved while on this earth ....before G-d passes judgement on our righteousness.
I doubt He is happy with that attempt to supersede His authority.

When You say something like this, all you do is prove a few things.....like...

a. You don't know what you are talking about
b. You must not be able to understand grammar
c. You regularly reject truth
d. You must not understand verb tense

Or, you are just obstinate, stubborn and willingly fail to acknowledge truth because you will have to admit error.......

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2 Tim 1:10And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, apostle, and teacher.

The effects of self appointment are there to be seen; divisions is churches and thousands of antagonizing doctrines.

I'm trying to see if I'm reading you right (in view of what you'd put in an earlier post); are you saying, since Jesus had said, "But you shall not be called 'Rabbi,' for your Teacher is One, and you are all brothers," that Paul was not actually a "teacher" appointed by God? [per 2Tim1:11] (...and that those "persons" shown to have been "given [to the Church]" following His ascension/exaltation, in Eph4:11 [apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors-teachers] were something other than these? or [I'm not sure] what?)




[note to the readers: The phrase "apostles and prophets" (written together like that) refer to NT "apostles and prophets," used in Eph2:20, 3:5... and see also 1Cor12:28 and Eph4:11 already mentioned...]

 

[Deade]

What does this mean?

Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,e ”
declares the LORD.

33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.

34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
For I will forgive their iniquities
and will remember their sins no more.”

That is a yet future covenant. Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, it speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, ask yourself: when is it?

 

[Noose]

That is a yet future covenant. Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, it speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, ask yourself: when is it? View attachment 201410

Deade, we are in the new covenant, we have been for the last 2 millennia.

Everyone that calls to the Lord shall be saved- that's my point, not everyone that calls to their preacher.

There's not going to be a third covenant and we are not in the old covenant (law).

 

[Noose]

I'm trying to see if I'm reading you right (in view of what you'd put in an earlier post); are you saying, since Jesus had said, "But you shall not be called 'Rabbi,' for your Teacher is One, and you are all brothers," that Paul was not actually a "teacher" appointed by God? [per 2Tim1:11] (...and that those "persons" shown to have been "given [to the Church]" following His ascension/exaltation, in Eph4:11 [apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors-teachers] were something other than these? or [I'm not sure] what?)




[note to the readers: The phrase "apostles and prophets" (written together like that) refer to NT "apostles and prophets," used in Eph2:20, 3:5... and see also 1Cor12:28 and Eph4:11 already mentioned...]

Paul was a teacher with other respect but an appointee to preach the gospel- key word is appointed.

2 Tim 1:10And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, apostle, and teacher.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Maybe we can cross our fingers too to hedge our bets.

haha I wouldn't 'bet' on anything here

yah might get crossed eyes though LOL!

 

[tourist]

Ignorant?...... it is more ignorant to conclude one is saved while on this earth ....before G-d passes judgement on our righteousness.
I doubt He is happy with that attempt to supersede His authority.

God counts those that He judges as being righteous so therefore there is no judgement on this righteousness because it is not ours but rather from God. Jesus said that He has not lost a single one that the Father has trusted to Him. I take great comfort in the blessed assured hope of my salvation. Those that are unsure on any given day about their salvation must work out their salvation in fear and trembling as stated by Paul. Personally, I have faith in God that He will do as He has promised and not have to live in a constant state of fear and doubt.

 

[Deade]

Deade, we are in the new covenant, we have been for the last 2 millennia.

Everyone that calls to the Lord shall be saved- that's my point, not everyone that calls to their preacher.

There's not going to be a third covenant and we are not in the old covenant (law).

I am afraid not, too much in those prophecies have not happened. They point to a millennial reign fulfillment. What we have is a start or partial new covenant yet to be fully implemented.

Peter was speaking on that day of Pentecost: Acts 2:16 "But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:"

Then he goes on in verses 19 & 20 to speak of the darkened sun and moon and the day of the Lord; which hasn't happened yet. Put it all together, it fits.

 

[BillG]

TOTALLY FALSE. As long as the Church is on earth, there are a multitude of spiritual gifts within the Church.

Not according to cessationalists.

After all we have the Bible, go read it and know it to be true.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Paul was a teacher with other respect but an appointee to preach the gospel- key word is appointed.

2 Tim 1:10And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, apostle, and teacher.

Okay, I'm still not entirely clear on your intention (my apologies). Would it be correct to say, that, according to your understanding, Paul was

"appointed":
--a preacher
--an apostle
--and teacher

(all three? each of these three?)

It sounds to me, by the way you've phrased it, that you do not believe he was "appointed" [a] teacher (and especially not with regard to "the gospel"... ? but something else [re: the "teacher" part]?). Am I reading you right?


Same for those in this verse? "teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age." right?

 

[posthuman]

Ultimately yes, the Holy Spirit which gives us access to Jesus and the Father is the main teacher. But that Spirit allows us to teach, exhort and even prophesy according to our varied gifts. You have taken an ultra-dispensationalist approach to scripture.

I think what Noose is trying to explain is that whatever Noose tries to teach us is not from God

 

[posthuman]

Colossians 3:16
Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.