Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

@dcontroversal, may I have your opinion on what you think about the airplane analogy from FollowHisSteps?

Most of us have that person on ignore..so we do not see what he says,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?

It is very easy to call Jesus as Lord. Some people think that's enough.

Its also very easy to call Jesus your lord. Yet reject his perfect salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It seems that by your logic if it's all God then God should also do the accepting. That way we cannot boast that we choose to do the right thing and accepted. Correct?

As jesus said, it is the work of God we believe in him.

Anyone who boasts in their faith in christ has some serious issues, they claimed to come to faith by their self. With no help from God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm working on my salvation ... I'm glad some people think they already gained it ... How did they that? I don't know how they did it.
I do prefer stay working on mine.

You better work hard.

Because if you do not yet have it, Your on your own. You better hope you add up.

Ps. Gods requirement is found in the law, Just in case you were wondering.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I find this words of Paul very interesting:

Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

Paul didn't believe he already had what he was searching for ... no matter how many things happened before that moment he said it. How is it that so many people think they did already? Have done they more than Paul when he said that? Was Paul lacking faith, or he was thinking on something else?

Paul tells us to work out our salvation (the salvation we already have)

He uses a mining term (work out) to explain that the salvation that is in us needs to be worked out. So we are found as lights who draw people to christ. And not people who are seen as hypocrites..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am NOT a calvinist

Lol

They think we are all calvinists.

I thin it is a programmed response from those who teach them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NEITHER AM I A CALVINIST, I only Believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism.

They do not want to consider me a Calvinists, and I think both the Calvinists and Armenians have about the same number of theories WRONG.

So want am I? I am a Conservative Evengelical, so you can call me a NORMAL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.
We BURIED THAT CALVINIST and ARMENIAN ridiculous ARGUMENT Decades AGO.

Amen

I am neither calvinist or arminian.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just don't think I can declare saved myself without fighting for my salvation. I see this way is how christians did in the first century.
I would never think that my salvation depends on how some persons interpret the Scriptures. It is Jesus who will declare people saved or not, and he himself said that there are a lot of "christians" that won't be ... and he mentioned a very interesting expression: "workers of lawlessness" in Mat 7:23 (ESV). That expression has to do with works, doesn't it?

Have you read paul?

He did not fight for his salvation, He owned it, lived it out. And fought hard to live it..

But he NEVER thought he was not sec ure in faith, in fact, unless he was secure in his eternity, he could not have done what he did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please list out their errors

I would like to learn some flaws and weakness of
T U L I P
and whatever this Armenians is

How about lets discuss the word. Not two belief systems..

 

[VCO]

Please list out their errors

I would like to learn some flaws and weakness of
T U L I P
and whatever this Armenians is

I cannot believe you do not know what the Armenians and Calvinists argument is, because they have been at each others throat, ever since John Calvin died in the 17th Century. When I first got Saved the last week of 1977, I was happy when I found that conservative Evangelical had a belief that could be called Calvinist or Armenia-ism. As I grew in GRACE, I began to see that the TRUTH was NOT in either Calvinist or Armenia-ism, but lied somewhere in between.

FIVE POINTS OF CALVANISM​

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)​

This makes me a 3 pointed Calvinist, as I do not believe in Limited atonement, BECAUSE, Christ died for all, because it is not His will that any be lost, Mat. 18:14. Therefore, I believe that Christ's death on the Cross was Unlimited Atonement. The only reason that anyone goes to Hades and later Hell is because he or she refused to accept Christ as Lord, thereby receiving that atonement already paid for on the Cross nearly 2000 years ago. John 1:12

1 John 2:2 (NIV)
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The only sin that CHRIST DID NOT DIE FOR, is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Therefore everyone that rejects CHRIST Payment in FULL, is Blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit.

AND also Unconditional Election is in ERROR:

Quote: "Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21)."

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 John 2:2 (NIV)
2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Armenians have Predestination CORRECT, but ERROR on these two points. You can LOOSE your Salvation, and The Works of a Believer Count Towards SALVATION.

Quote: "Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation)."

Here are some verses that Prove the Calvinist position on Unconditional Election is in error.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (ESV)
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 (HCSB)
11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also put eternity in their hearts, but man cannot discover the work God has done from beginning to end.

Isaiah 46:10 (ASV)
10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure;

Jeremiah 46:28 (ESV)
28 Fear not, O Jacob my servant, declares the LORD, for I am with you. I will make a full end of all the nations to which I have driven you, but of you I will not make a full end. I will discipline you in just measure, and I will by no means leave you unpunished.”

 

[dcontroversal]

@dcontroversal, may I have your opinion on what you think about the airplane analogy from FollowHisSteps?

What post number...I have him on ignore....he is a former member that has been banned at least twice and is here under pretense.....most of us ignore his psycho babble.......

 

[Eli12]

According to scripture you have entered into a losing battle.

Best to give up and trust Jesus completely for your salvation.

According to Scriptures, or according to how some people interpret the Scriptures?
Have you noticed that I am citing Scriptures and some responses to my posts don't? Have you realized that when some people use Scriptures in here looks like what hey are trying to do is to look themselves as interpreters of things that are clear enough to understand?

Also, both statements you posted are a total contradiction: you can not trust in Jesus completely and at the same time think that your efforts to make God's will are a losing battle.

Actually, Jesus invited his followers to fight a fight ... some people can't see it ... or don't want to.

 

[dcontroversal]

And here is the difference between you and I.

If the scriptures did say such a thing I would simply accept it and obey. You on the other hand would try to filter it through your faith alone theology and find some awkward way to get it to mean something else.

John 15:10 New International Version (NIV)
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

The blessing: Remaining in the love of Jesus.
The means: Keep his commands.

Not quite pal...and the funny thing...it is the exact opposite of what you think....I let the bible speak and fully embrace the truth and the words inspired by God such as...

IRREVOCABLE
LOSE nothing
KEPT by the power of GOD
ETERNAL life
EVERLASTING life
INCORRUPTIBLE seed
SEALED UNTO
SAVED to the UTTERMOST
NEVER leave
NEVER forsake
HE abides faithful even if we become faithless

and on and on and on

MAKE no mistake deceiver....you are the one that filters the truth through your religious dime store salvation that can be lost or must be maintained by yourself.....and make no mistake...that false gospel will take you to a particular day that you will regret.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I just don't think I can declare saved myself without fighting for my salvation. I see this way is how christians did in the first century.
I would never think that my salvation depends on how some persons interpret the Scriptures. It is Jesus who will declare people saved or not, and he himself said that there are a lot of "christians" that won't be ... and he mentioned a very interesting expression: "workers of lawlessness" in Mat 7:23 (ESV). That expression has to do with works, doesn't it?

These things are written that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.....the Apostles/disciples disagree with your theology.....

 

[Eli12]

You are an example of persons who talk back against people all the time and don't use Scriptures. I just registered in CC and already saw that.

Can you talk about the Scriptures I cited, cite some yourself, and stop talking about teologies and people?

 

[dcontroversal]

For the deceivers that no one has salvation yet......verb tense proves your stance erroneous......EMBRACE truth....get right and quit peddling deceit......and make no mistake.....I could post dozens more.......even DAVID spoke of HIS salvation in the present TENSE....

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost


He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Eli12]

There is something interesting about two words in greek very deeply related with this matter and I invite to the ones who like to go deeper to give us all their consideration about it:

1) the word "faith" in greek means LOYALTY also;

2) the word for "believe" in greek means OBEY also.

Hope it helps ... to give you some spiritual homework to do and the opportunty to share with others

 

[dcontroversal]

Its also very easy to call Jesus your lord. Yet reject his perfect salvation.

His dogma fits the many....Lord, Lord have we not done......blah blah blah....

They, like HIM, think their works are par of the equation........another worker for........oblivious to the fact that any work done by man that can be deemed as righteous is CHRIST doing the work in a BELIEVER that has already been born again from above by faith............the results OF.....not FOR......It is not that difficult and yet the PLENTEOUS in NUMBER will ride that false gospel right to the pit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Satan's greatest lie is we lose our salvation if we do not do good works.

One of and or works NEEDED to obtain it to begin with........

 

[VCO]

I'm working on my salvation ... I'm glad some people think they already gained it ... How did they that? I don't know how they did it.
I do prefer stay working on mine.

YOU DO NOT EARN SALVATION, IT IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

1 John 2:5 (HCSB)
5 But whoever keeps His word [does not imply perfection, but a lifestyle of striving to keep], truly in him the love of God is perfected
[not perfection, but rather has matured]. This is how we know we are in Him:

Romans 5:15-16 (ESV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and
the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but
the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.