Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[posthuman]

After the northern kingdom and southern kingdom split does a name Israel just refer to the northern tribes?

Paul says of himself,

of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin
(Philippians 3:5) ​

so he is obviously not using the name Israel here to refer exclusively to the northern kingdom: Benjamin is a tribe of the southern kingdom. neither in Romans 10, where he says much about "Israel" and quotes Moses speaking about Israel, long before there was a split in the kingdom, long before there was even a single king, or they had even entered the land.
i am not certain Paul ever speaks about Israel with reference only to a portion of the tribes to the exclusion of others -- or whether every time he speaks of Israel, he speaks of her restored.

 

[lightbearer]

Yes. That was ONE of the posts of yours which states Christ = Law.

Read it again please. Because it does not say that, It says, "The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ."

It does Not say Christ=law but," What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth."
And goes on to to say, "So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before."

Furthermore it says, We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart.

And in closing it states,
"The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

The word in verse 8 and Christ in verses 7 and 6 are being used synonymously Romans 10. The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ.

Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is, (In other words) what was just stated Christ, the word in the heart and mouth is the word of faith in which we preach.

What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth.

What is even more interesting is Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made another connection as they compared the two.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

They would have noticed the word, the commandment and statutes written in the book of the Law are the same word mentioned in Romans in which and through Christ has been placed in the heart and mouth.

What is even more Interesting is the prophecy in Deut 30:10-14 is being spoken in the presence tense. So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before.

Since Israel refused the gift. God through Jeremiah repeated it in other words as the New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart. True Faith, Christ in you the hope of glory. Christ, the word in the heart and mouth, that is the word of Faith in which we preach. And this faith, this word of Faith has been available since the time of Moses and befo


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed From (out of) faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by (out of) faith.


Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest (shining) in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30: 11-14. Those who received this letter would of known this and made this connection as they compared the two.

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day (to hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law), it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Through Christ which his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

Then if not before they would of made a connection between the prophecy in Deut, to the one in Jeremiah, the New Covenant. For they are synonymous.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (the word, through Christ) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33 KJV)

A New Ministration ....written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(2Co 3:3-6 KJV)

The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

 

[posthuman]

Furthermore it says, We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart.

For the law was given by Moses,
grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(John 1:17) ​

​

A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another;
as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

(John 13:34) ​

​

In that He saith, new, He hath made the first old.
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old ready to vanish away.​

(Hebrews 8:13) ​

 

[posthuman]

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

whatever this covenant is, it allows a man to be as though under law in order to gain those under the law, and to be also as though without law to gain those who are not.

And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. ​

(1 Corinthians 9:20-21) ​

so our theology needs to align itself with the fact.
1 Cor. 9 speaks of an entirely different law than the ministration engraved on stones: of an immutable substance of which the former was only a shadow.

righteousness does not change. statutes and ordinances do. see: circumcision, diet, dress, priesthood, ordinances.

 

[I-Am-Murica]

Way I see it you can't keep the Law perfectly, even the most righteous men all broke it at one point, even Moses at the waters of Meribah. Only Jesus ever kept the whole of the Law as foretold by the prophets, but the Law will work itself out one way or the other and not one precept of it will disappear until God makes this fallen corrupted creation burn the heck up with hellfires and curses. Moses didn't make the Law up after all, he just wrote it down and pointed it out. The Law is to be feared and the Law is also yet good. The Law itself is carnal, and deals carnally and the hollow carnal sacrifices mean nothing without the Spirit of the Law. It is therefore manifest as in the Chronicles and Kings as Israel makes a hollow show of the Law without the Spirit behind it, and those few righteous kings of Judah show despite their shortcomings how in the Spirit of the Law they were good in the sight of God and did rightly. The Law is a great subject and even into the New Testament though some of Paul's writings are hard to understand for some he also expounds upon and shows how the two edges of the Law work and how it is not the Law itself that is important, but rather the Spirit.

But of course going back to the point Jesus is the only man that ever kept the whole of the Law, he is the High Priest of the Law, The King of the Law, The Word of the Law, The Sacrifice required by the Law, and even the true Temple of the Law, and even that cornerstone which the Law demands become the head of the Temple. Jesus is the only fit Judge of the Law, the advocate for us to the Law, and even the one wrongfully accused by those that corrupted the Law greatly those Pharisees and Sadducees. So in this way we have many assurances that Jesus rather than the Law itself, but ironically fulfilling all the Law and Prophets, is truly the Son of God.

 

[SimpleGardner]

well, i happen to know a 7ft tall barbarian. he camps with a pirate crew at a renaissance fair we attend every year.



in Jeremiah, He says Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah - and tells Israel to return to Him, and He will take her back.
by the time Cyrus decreed that the Hebrews may return to rebuild Jerusalem, Assyria had been conquered by Babylon. in 1 Chronicles 9, "all Israel" is mentioned among the captives, and Manasseh & Ephraim are mentioned as returning. names recorded here, in Ezra and in Nehemiah can be traced back to northern tribes.

Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and He came to Israel to gather them ((unless we think He went to America to gather Cree & Navajo.. ??)) -- we had someone a few months ago telling us that "gentile" in the NT always refers only to Hebrews from the northern kingdom, and that everyone who is saved is genetically, ethnically Israelite. that's not what you're suggesting, is it?

I have read the arguments for "ethnos" and I cannot bring anything affirmative to or against that argument. Have you ever looked into the Greek word "ethnos"? I would be curious to hear their argument though.

If you would cite the scriptures regarding the coalescing of all the tribes it would help. I do understand that there was a merging of the tribes to a small degree such as Simeon and Levi being dispersed into all the tribes;

Gen 49:5-7 KJV Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. (6) O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. (7) Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

 

[Grandpa]

Listen to this conversation.
"I was walking down the road, met this adulterer, murderer, thief, liar, cheat, envious, full of greed
and self indulgence, but is a great guy. And that rubbish law that say they are evil and should be
sent to hell, what a joke. Lets go and murder those jokers over there, for a laugh."

Now this is what some do and did, and the prophets spoke against them, warning of Gods judgement
and an even worse group would come and drag them away to captivity and abuse.

Now if we condemn the law, we are approving of these people under Gods judgement, and are putting
ourselves under Gods judgement. When guys like this have destroyed your family, stolen your possessions
and left you to starve, you begin to see the evil they truly represent. Thankfully in the west we rarely suffer
from this, so imagine words like law on overly strict and condemning of struggling people not see the true
fruit of rebellion which it condemns and deals with.

1 Timothy 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


I suppose it does make sense that legalists have a general confusion over what Christianity actually is.


Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Grandpa]

Maybe the better way to frame it so it is not offensive is that Christ is the "Spirit of the Law" and it is important to realize that the "Torah" or the "Written Law" contains the words but not the "Spirit of the Law"! The "Torah/Written Law" is good and Holy and Just, but without the "Spirit of the Law" it is incapable of reforming mens hearts. David was the anointed King of Israel" That anointing with a measure of The Holy Spirit allowed him to see the Torah and recognize the goodness, holiness, and justice with it! This is what we do now who are anointed with that same Holy Spirit. We see the beauty in it. We could not see this beauty unless and until we receive salvation through the unmerited justification given to those who are called by the Grace of God to receive this gift and that of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The Ministry of the Spirit does not equal "spirit of the law".

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If Christ is the "Spirit of the law" then how could we ever NOT be under that schoolmaster?

How come the bible never explains Christ as the Spirit of the Law or law of the spirit the way legalists do? Because the bible is NOT trying to encourage people who have come to Christ to continue to look to and work at the law INSTEAD of looking solely to Christ for their Righteousness and Salvation.

 

[gb9]

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The Ministry of the Spirit does not equal "spirit of the law".

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If Christ is the "Spirit of the law" then how could we ever NOT be under that schoolmaster?

How come the bible never explains Christ as the Spirit of the Law or law of the spirit the way legalists do? Because the bible is NOT trying to encourage people who have come to Christ to continue to look to and work at the law INSTEAD of looking solely to Christ for their Righteousness and Salvation.

same thing I say- we are supposed to be focused on Christ, and they keep trying to drag us back to Sinai to look at the Law....

 

[Grandpa]

Read it again please. Because it does not say that, It says, "The word equals Christ because it is of and through Christ."

It does Not say Christ=law but," What is the word of Faith in which we preach? Christ, through which the word is in the heart and mouth."
And goes on to to say, "So the Gift of Christ in the Heart, through which His word, his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law are in the heart and mouth was available at the beginning of Moses Ministry if not before."

Furthermore it says, We are explicitly speaking about Christ. Through Whom the Law; the word, His commandments went from tables of stone and parchment to fleshly tables of the heart.

And in closing it states,
"The issue is trying to obey GOD from the letter. The New ministration is obedience from the heart through Christ.
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For Christ (through which the word, the law, His commandments are placed in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (on tables of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth (Rom 1:5; 10:4)

For it is GOD that works in us both to will do HIS good pleasure. For in Him we live, and move, and have our being.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
(Heb 8:10-11 KJV)

There is no end of the law for righteousness if you look at what you post. All there is is a transfer of law from stone to heart in your philosophy.

Its a wrong philosophy but it seems to be a popular one with the legalists and judaizers.

If the law transferred from stone to the heart why would Paul describe it as the Ministration of Death and Condemnation? He would have had to put a disclaimer in there and say UNTIL IT IS TRANSFERRED TO THE HEART. But he never puts any disclaimer in.

How could we ever not be under the schoolmaster if it were just transferred from stone to the heart? We couldn't ever not be under it. Which is your desire and your philosophy but its wrong. If it just transferred from stone to your heart then you would FOREVER be under it with no way to not be under it.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

How come it doesn't say "the law in you the hope of glory"? Because nobody in the bible confuses Christ with law. No one says that the Ministry of Death and Condemnation is transferred to our hearts.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Its just too bad that Paul wasn't as wise as yourself. How could those who are of the works of the law be under the curse if that law is written on peoples hearts?? Paul obviously doesn't know what he is talking about. You could probably disregard all his epistles and write your own.

/sarcasm off

 

[posthuman]

I have read the arguments for "ethnos" and I cannot bring anything affirmative to or against that argument. Have you ever looked into the Greek word "ethnos"? I would be curious to hear their argument though.

IMO Romans 10 is enough to establish their argument is wrong. Paul isn't using the word Israel in divided kingdom terms there; he's referring to the whole undivided people. Philippians too makes it obvious because he calls himself of Israel at the same time he identifies himself with a tribe of the kingdom of Judah. Yet Paul says an awful lot about the inclusion of gentiles so he can't be using gentile to refer to northern-tribe Hebrews.

I don't recall whether the person giving that argument was banned or just left - it was combined with, unsurprisingly, a lot of Hebrew roots type stuff, and a replacement theology he was trying to pass off as not-actually-replacement

 

[SimpleGardner]

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The Ministry of the Spirit does not equal "spirit of the law".

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If Christ is the "Spirit of the law" then how could we ever NOT be under that schoolmaster?

How come the bible never explains Christ as the Spirit of the Law or law of the spirit the way legalists do? Because the bible is NOT trying to encourage people who have come to Christ to continue to look to and work at the law INSTEAD of looking solely to Christ for their Righteousness and Salvation.

Hey gp,

He does claim to be the "I am", and He does state that His words are Spirit and truth...is it too far a stretch with just that to make that connection?

 

[Smooth]

I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

We keep the law by having faith in Him.

 

[NayborBear]

Perhaps you are right, perhaps we should not discuss the Torah at all in order not to lead anyone to believe that obedience to it can lead to salvation. But there is much to learn from the OT. So, how would you recommend we discuss it, or should we leave it alone?

The "carrying of one's own cross", comes to be such a burden on some, who are, or who have become "satisfied" with, and in God's "Grace in the love for His children" in sending Christ, and that "love, covers a multitude of sin", that when Jesus confesses one before the Father in Heaven? And the Father asks that one: "Happy to see you here!" "Care to walk with Me for awhile?" More times then not? The reply back to the Father, is: "WHY?" "I've been good!" "You're missing the point." The Father says. "I've been forgiven of all my sin!" States the believer. "Aye!" Says the Father! "Don't you wish to "press on", and pick up your cross?" "Nope!" Pleads the believer. "I am happy right where I am!" "Alright" Sighs the Father. "Have it your way." "Not going to force you." "You should know, however, that My WORD doesn't go out from Me, and return VOID!" (and) "Eventually (in that Day), you shall give an accounting for your own cross, that you have partially picked up, and, taught, concerning those parts of your cross you chose not to pick up." "I'll wait." Replies the believer.
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (an everlasting).
This is the "time of teaching!"......and then?
7 And when the thousand years (an everlasting) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

It is not those in Christ, I condemn! It is them that are in Christ, that are giving cause to those in Christ "TO WAIT!"

Today's Christians, should know, and be made to realize. That, if there were NO Jews? There would be NO N.T.
Because the O.T.? Is the root OF, and FOR our faith!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The apostle Paul - The law is not made for a righteous person. But an unrighteous.


Can someone who thinks the law is still binding to a believer explain why, if this is true, we still need to follow a law not made for us?

 

[NayborBear]

Perhaps you are right, perhaps we should not discuss the Torah at all in order not to lead anyone to believe that obedience to it can lead to salvation. But there is much to learn from the OT. So, how would you recommend we discuss it, or should we leave it alone?

You are correct SG! The Torah does not lead to salvation! For one is saved already, after having accepted Christ!
It does, however lead one, in its keeping, who is already "in Christ?"
TO, the Father's Holy Priesthood!
It teaches us, not only who the adversary/ies are? It teaches us also "wherein they lurk, and camouflage themselves!"
Revelation 13
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are correct SG! The Torah does not lead to salvation! For one is saved already, after having accepted Christ!
It does, however lead one, in its keeping, who is already "in Christ?"
TO, the Father's Holy Priesthood!
It teaches us, not only who the adversary/ies are? It teaches us also "wherein they lurk, and camouflage themselves!"
Revelation 13
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How does the Law, Which was not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous. Help us become more christlike?

 

[NayborBear]

How does the Law, Which was not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous. Help us become more christlike?

This happens, EG, when the believer, has been confessed by Christ, TO the Father in Heaven. And said believer "Answers", the "High(er) Calling OF God, that is "in" Christ! In one's becoming more Christlike.
Not "in" Christ. But, a fellow Priest WITH Christ! And? WITH the Father!
Meaning, that yea! Even to the persecuting unto death of our flesh bodies.

Requires, leap/s of faith TO the Father, that inasmuch, that He allowed for His only begotten to be sacrificed?
In these "last days?" He is able to make certain that "not one hair, on one's head" (yea, even our flesh body), is to be harmed."

To not understand the "lateral movements" of the Father, into and out of the Son, as well as into, and out of the "gift of the Holy Spirit?" And especially, into and out of the believer?
Puts this verse very much into play.
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Meaning? The Father will teach one, and show one these "lateral movements" of Himself. But, one has to be willing in the learning.

I "can't" myself learn anyone of these things. I can only bare witness, and testify, that this is what occurs, when one being confessed before the Father, by Christ? "Answers" the "Father's Calling."

John 14
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This happens, EG, when the believer, has been confessed by Christ, TO the Father in Heaven. And said believer "Answers", the "High(er) Calling OF God, that is "in" Christ! In one's becoming more Christlike.
Not "in" Christ. But, a fellow Priest WITH Christ! And? WITH the Father!
Meaning, that yea! Even to the persecuting unto death of our flesh bodies.

Requires, leap/s of faith TO the Father, that inasmuch, that He allowed for His only begotten to be sacrificed?
In these "last days?" He is able to make certain that "not one hair, on one's head" (yea, even our flesh body), is to be harmed."

To not understand the "lateral movements" of the Father, into and out of the Son, as well as into, and out of the "gift of the Holy Spirit?" And especially, into and out of the believer?
Puts this verse very much into play.
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Meaning? The Father will teach one, and show one these "lateral movements" of Himself. But, one has to be willing in the learning.

I "can't" myself learn anyone of these things. I can only bare witness, and testify, that this is what occurs, when one being confessed before the Father, by Christ? "Answers" the "Father's Calling."

John 14
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What does any of this Have to do with the law? And the law not being made for a righteous man.

 

[NayborBear]

What does any of this Have to do with the law? And the law not being made for a righteous man.

Reckon that depends on "what law" you are referring to EG?