Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
- Thread starter LW97
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Thanks LeastAmongMany.Welcome to cc Eli and Blessings!
The point is I'd never read on the Scriptures about any disciple of Jesus saying that he was already saved. Paul, the inspired writer of more that the half of the NT, was fighting hard for his own salvation all the time. How is that, that so many people today think they are already saved? Have done they more than Paul in his whole life?
I study and learn everyday and I pray to be strong in faith and I trust the Bible and appreciate what Jesus did for me! Thatβs all I have
Notice the word "saved" is in the "PERFECT tense" ['perfect participle'] in the following two verses (represented by the "R" below the word, in each of these two verses):
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ephesians/2-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ephesians/2-8.htm
...and v.5 says "made us alive with Christ" (that is, WHEN HE was)β¦ G4806 - synezΕopoiΔsen
Matthew 24:13 (and elsewhere where this phrase is used) is in the context of a very specific, limited, future time period (leading up to His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [note to readers: not our Rapture]) whereupon those who have "endured unto the end" of it, will enter the earthly kingdom in their mortal bodies (capable of reproducing/bearing children). That ain't us ["the Church which is His body," who will have already experienced the "change"/1Cor15:51-54/2Cor5:2-4/Phil3:20-21 ('OUR citizenship is in the heavens'; and 'we are ambassadors' here)]
^ Learn to "correctly apportion the word of truth"... both passages are TRUE (the ones I pointed out in the Eph2:5,8 verses that are in the "PERFECT tense" AND your verse/verses that are in the "future tense"). They are both true, but they are not [both] applied to the same individuals (of these two wholly DISTINCT time-frames/-periods [per their CONTEXTS]).
That is not "changing the meaning of His words" but UNDERSTANDING what His words mean (AS GIVEN), in their contexts.
That is not "changing the meaning of His words" but UNDERSTANDING what His words mean (AS GIVEN), in their contexts.
The context of Jesus' words is clear to me ... I think is clear for anyone. Do I need to go somewhere else to understand a passage that is completely understandable?
U
UnderGrace
Guest
He was not referring to eternal life, he was referring to the physical body being saved... read it in context.
I don't think Jesus was talking about salvation of the physical body ... He was talking about the last day. The only way we can understand salvation is at the moment of the judgement. Why is it that there are so many people who believe that salvation is something they can grasp as if it were an object? People can be saved, and after been saved of whatever they were saved, not be saved about something else.
Jud 1:4 (ESV) For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
There is not a final salvation. Even when everybody will be saved at the last moment of what is coming, they could lose their lives if they do not stay obedient. If somebody can hold the life that would mean they are gods ... No human been can hold life by itself, it is God who gives us life, and the same way, like israelites, He can take it back ... and no more salvation.
That part is called the mind and what happens in the mind is understanding only.
Isa 40:13Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or who has given Him counsel?
Romans 11:34"Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?"
Well, that physical action requires your effort so it can not be faith alone.
Nope.
Apart from Christ we can do something but it won't be counted as righteousness, but in Christ we MUST do something alongside our faith to be counted righteous. Therefore it can not be faith alone.
Loving other people is not a choice but a command that MUST be obeyed, without it, your faith means nothing.
Consider the following:
"And so all Israel will be saved, as it has been written: "The One Delivering [G4506] will come out of Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob." Romans 11:26 [see CONTEXT of vv.25-29]
... and this word "the One Delivering [G4506 - Rhyomenos]" is used in the following passage also:
Luke 1 -
" 70 as He spoke by the mouth
of His holy prophets of old,
71 salvation from our enemies,
and from the hand of all those hating us,
72 to fulfill mercy toward our fathers,
and to remember His holy covenant,
73 the oath that He swore to Abraham our father,
to grant us, 74 having been saved [G4506 (i.e. rescued / delivered)] from the hand of our enemies,
to serve Him without fear,
75 in holiness and righteousness before Him,
all the days of our life.
No.
The issue with the rich young ruler was not keeping the law, it was his failure to recognize Jesus as God hence referring to Him as good teacher only. The first commandment requires one to know God.