Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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man's languages are becoming worse and worse to the point that they, including English, have become a tower of BABBLE, so they cannot be relied upon to explain God's Holy Spirit inspired Word and Truth which rises above man's languages, cultures, ... His Word is ALL for ALL for ALL time and God is not the author of confusion, so if we rely upon Him and not on fallible man the creation to explain His Word, we will do well .. if we rely on man to tell us what God says and means, we will utterly fail
I want you to know that I was not being hard on you yesterday, had no anger or animosity.....on CC I just respond and lay it bare.....no harm no foul....I call you Laffy Duck because it fits....hahaLaffy Duck?!!! That's a new one! lol!
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Exactly why I study EVERY word from Greek, Hebrew, Chaldean (Some in Daniel) and what Aramic the Lord used.....the inspired DEAD LANGUAGES will never lead us wrong!!
Exactly why I study EVERY word from Greek, Hebrew, Chaldean (Some in Daniel) and what Aramic the Lord used.....the inspired DEAD LANGUAGES will never lead us wrong!!
Luke 11:28
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
James 1:22-25
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command you
Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
2 Corinthians 10:5
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
James 1:22-25
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
John 15:14
You are my friends if you do what I command you
Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
2 Corinthians 10:5
We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
Well, "literally" speaking......... the WHOLE parable should be taken into context. You're pulling out just what you want - that twists the Word of God and is not accurate.
Also, parables were told to teach a lesson....there is a hidden meaning or truth in the story that is to be learned.
When Yeshua/Jesus would tell these parables, He would often say "My Words are Spirit and they are Life. He that has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit is saying."
So people who deny OSAS are talking babble. Who uses the most bible scriptures to defend their position
. And reads scriptures for how they are spoken. By the way it's not babble. Every human being has a right to speak without being accused of babble. It may be babble to you, but not other people. He left the father. But he willingly went back to him. His father didnt control him like a puppet. To force him to come back with magical powers.
his being a son never changed and all that entailed was restored by his compassionate, loving, caring, forgiving father when the son REPENTED .. the same would be true for us as prodigal children of God IF we REPENT aka turn back .. not all prodigals turn back aka repent and they remain sons and daughters but do not stay saved .. they are serving Satan so will spend all eternity with him, not with God .. again, their choice, not God's, and their doing, not God's ..
Where does it say this refers to the prodigal son?
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Corinthians 3 New International Version (NIV)
The Church and Its Leaders
3 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ.2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?
5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants,through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed,Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is,because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wiseby the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”[a];20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”[b] 21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders!All things are yours,22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
Luke 15:11-32 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’So he divided his property between them.
13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealthin wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need.15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinnedagainst heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him.29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’So he divided his property between them.
13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealthin wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need.15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinnedagainst heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him.29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
You and I both are very strong in our beliefs and at times we will butt heads but, it's because we both love God's Truth. Iron sharpens iron so, carry on! "Quack! Quack!" lol
Interesting, you mean when someone says, "The prodigal son wanted to return to the Father, because he is hungry and wants to fill his stomach", you will actually regard that as "twisting the Word of God" and "not accurate"?
You know, I really just simply don't even worry at all about losing my salvation. I'm in such a loving and tender relationship with The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.....there is no fear at all in love.
If I had to maintain this relationship by walking on pins and needles......afraid God is going to throw me back out if I stumble and sin........what kind of a relationship would that be? Horrible. It would be fear based instead of love based. I choose love.
P
Poinsetta
Guest
Yes, because you're trying to deny that the prodigal son returned with humility. You're trying to say he was still selfish and only cared about his belly. That is out of context.
So... a few pages back (lol), I think... consider the following:
1Cor5:13 * -
In v.13 - "[G4190 - ponéros / ponēron (adj)] τόν πονηρόν, the wicked man, i. e. the evil-doer spoken of, 1 Corinthians 5:13"
^ Used also in Hebrews 3:12 :
"Take heed, brothers, lest ever there will be in any [singular] of you [plural] an evil [G4190 - ponēra] heart of unbelief [G570], into falling away from the living God."
...where also "[G570]apistias / apistia - " is used ^ .
[quoting from BibleHub]
"HELPS Word-studies -
Cognate: 570 apistía (the negated form of 4103 /pistós, "faithful") – properly, without (divine) persuasion, "no-faithfulness" (unfaithfulness); "want of faith" (betraying a trust)" (J. Thayer)."
[and]
"From apistos [G571]; faithlessness, i.e. (negatively) disbelief (lack of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience) -- unbelief."
[end quoting]
So then, verse 18 (of the Heb3 context) uses the word "[G544] Cognate: 544 apeithéō / apeithēsasin – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia)."... [ylt-->]"and to whom did He swear that they shall not enter into His rest, except to those who did not believe [G544 - apeithéō / apeithēsasin]?"
[See 543--->] "543 apeítheia (from 1 /A "not" and 3982 /peíthō, "persuaded") – properly, someone not persuaded, referring to their willful unbelief, i.e. the refusal to be convinced by God's voice. This is the core-meaning of the entire word-family: 543 (apeítheia), 544 (apeithéō), 545 (apeithḗs). All these cognates focus on man's decision to reject God's offers of faith, i.e. refusal to be persuaded in their heart concerning obeying His will (Word)."
[source: Bible Hub]
...and then verse 19 (of Heb3) uses "G570 - apistian / apistia,"... "And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief [G570]."
(*note [about 1Cor5:13] how it specifies "any man that IS CALLED/DESIGNATED [/named] a brother" [and, side note, be aware of the two distinct ways v.5 is worded (btw Grk txts)]; IOW, either someone who calls themselves a brother, or one whom others consider/call a brother [and I think v.5, depending on how it should actually read, would clarify this even further]; if it were God who was calling him a brother, I think it would be worded differently, like, "your brother"/"the brother"... this is Paul saying it from the perspectiive of "one who IS CALLED a brother" [a person identifying or being identified as one, but not necessarily a true brother (in the faith)])
1Cor5:13 * -
In v.13 - "[G4190 - ponéros / ponēron (adj)] τόν πονηρόν, the wicked man, i. e. the evil-doer spoken of, 1 Corinthians 5:13"
^ Used also in Hebrews 3:12 :
"Take heed, brothers, lest ever there will be in any [singular] of you [plural] an evil [G4190 - ponēra] heart of unbelief [G570], into falling away from the living God."
...where also "[G570]apistias / apistia - " is used ^ .
[quoting from BibleHub]
"HELPS Word-studies -
Cognate: 570 apistía (the negated form of 4103 /pistós, "faithful") – properly, without (divine) persuasion, "no-faithfulness" (unfaithfulness); "want of faith" (betraying a trust)" (J. Thayer)."
[and]
"From apistos [G571]; faithlessness, i.e. (negatively) disbelief (lack of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience) -- unbelief."
[end quoting]
So then, verse 18 (of the Heb3 context) uses the word "[G544] Cognate: 544 apeithéō / apeithēsasin – literally, refuse to be persuaded (by the Lord). See 543 (apeitheia)."... [ylt-->]"and to whom did He swear that they shall not enter into His rest, except to those who did not believe [G544 - apeithéō / apeithēsasin]?"
[See 543--->] "543 apeítheia (from 1 /A "not" and 3982 /peíthō, "persuaded") – properly, someone not persuaded, referring to their willful unbelief, i.e. the refusal to be convinced by God's voice. This is the core-meaning of the entire word-family: 543 (apeítheia), 544 (apeithéō), 545 (apeithḗs). All these cognates focus on man's decision to reject God's offers of faith, i.e. refusal to be persuaded in their heart concerning obeying His will (Word)."
[source: Bible Hub]
...and then verse 19 (of Heb3) uses "G570 - apistian / apistia,"... "And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief [G570]."
(*note [about 1Cor5:13] how it specifies "any man that IS CALLED/DESIGNATED [/named] a brother" [and, side note, be aware of the two distinct ways v.5 is worded (btw Grk txts)]; IOW, either someone who calls themselves a brother, or one whom others consider/call a brother [and I think v.5, depending on how it should actually read, would clarify this even further]; if it were God who was calling him a brother, I think it would be worded differently, like, "your brother"/"the brother"... this is Paul saying it from the perspectiive of "one who IS CALLED a brother" [a person identifying or being identified as one, but not necessarily a true brother (in the faith)])