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Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
- Thread starter LW97
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U
UnderGrace
Guest
Can you give me a metric from scripture when exactly a person loses salvation?
You do know this entire paragraph contradicts scripture?
False again....try the word IRREVOCABLE....one that is genuinely born again A.K.A. saved by grace through faith WILL NEVER LOSE SALVATION....nor can they GIVE IT BACK...NOR CAN IT BE FORFEIT......And those blotted out are blotted out due to UNBELIEF into the finished work of Christ on there behalf.......
Yep,I believe Jesus in our heart change us, but we still capable doing sin, I believe there is progress in our attitude after real born again, but it do not mean never fall in sin.
I stand amazed at how many devalue the truth while basically calling God a liar........
Eternal really means temporal
Irrevocable really means revoked
Kept really means thrown away
LOSE NOTHING means lost it
Sealed unto means unsealable
Not by works means by works
Never leave means did leave
Never forsake means forsaken
Incorruptible means corruptable
and on and on and on
Absolutely sickens me how many just flat reject the truth to peddle lies.....
I believe john 3:16 cover your question
Whosoever believe save
Mean if a man believe he save
Mean if a man believe and change his mind and no longer believe, he lose his salvation
I was drive 55 on the street that post max 55 for 10 hour
Than I speed up to 65 for 5 minute
Police pull me, can I say to him, I am not breaking the law because I was drive 55 for 10 hour.
God is faithfully
God never forsake
Is that mean no matter what we do, killing raping no problem because god never forsake?
I do not think so.
God never forsake if we abide in Him, not no matter what.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
With no qualms or concern that they nullify the work of the cross, put God in their debt and believe they are earning God's favour by their performance.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
U
UnderGrace
Guest
All we can do is keep applying the TRUTH
against this non biblical rigmarole I guess.Isn't there a distinction made between the people who are being spoken to and distinct different actions and promises from God? I just did a few "ifs" just because
Romans 11:1 I say then hath God cast away His People? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin 2 God hat NOT cast away His People which He FOREKNEW. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord they have killed thy prophets and digged down thine altars and I am left alone and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Romans 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, be not high minded but fear.
Romans 11:21 For IF God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He ALSO SPARE NOT THEE
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore THE GOODNESS and SEVERITY of God on them which fell severity but toward thee goodness, IF thou continue in His goodness OTHERWIS THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF
Romans 11:23 And they also, IF they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:24 For IF thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away THEIR sins.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTION they are beloved for the father's sakes
Romans 11:29 for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
God speaking of His covenant with His election
Romans 11:30 For as YE in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and his ways past finding out!
I am preparing all scriptures to support what I believe and it is not quite finished but I know God's Word and if you know it, you will know what I am saying is backed up by many biblical passages in various books/chapters/verses .. to put it simply, I believe and God's Word amply supports it:
1. we must believe Jesus Christ is the ONE and ONLY Way to salvation ..
2. we must then love Him or be accursed ..
3. Christ said Himself, "IF you love Me, [THEN] keep My commandments" (love God with whole being and neighbour aka everyone as oneself) ..
4. we all succumb to sin and choose to commit such and then we have two choices ..
a. repent aka turn back to God aka change from doing one's will to doing God's Will
b. not repent so remain in sin and thus dead and destined to eternity in lake of fire
all the above are choices we make .. we choose to believe or not .. to love Christ or be accursed .. to obey Christ's two great commandments or not .. to repent or not when we succumb to choosing to sin
A grandiose spin there.
We must conclude from your remark that you sin no more!
Please explain how you accomplish that?
All of us need to hear of your achievement which we have all failed at.
Belief in OSAS means that if a person is truly saved there is absolutely no sin nor any amount of sin that will separate a person from God.
Most (at least on CC) that hold to OSAS will hold to views such as this:
(a) if a person does sin ongoingly or violently this simply shows they were never born again
(b) a born again Christian cannot and absolutely will not under any circumstances keep on living a life of sin
(c) if a born again Christian does sin violently and ongoingly he will repent and come back to God before he dies
(d) before a Christian would get to such a point God would actually bring about their death (so that they do not lose their salvation)
Very few here on CC who hold to OSAS will say it is OK or normal for a born again believer to live a life of sin. I have been told though that even if a born again believer sins like Hitlar that he is still saved.
The problem with using the term "true believer" is that your argument pretty much becomes circular.
True believers also include works to be done, depending on your denomination, that can mean true believer get water baptized, follow the commandments, or in the Tribulation case, reject the mark of the beast.
To me, a believer is one that puts his faith in Jesus's Death Burial and Resurrection. That is what saves him in the church age.
But in ages past, before Jesus died, that has not happened yet, so people could not just rely on that belief to be saved and not do anything else, as Hebrews 11 stated.
In the ages to come, he also needs to reject the mark of the beast, in order to be saved.
That to me is better argument,
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Do you think God is not able to deal with a person when they sin..... what happened to Ananias and Sapphira?
Isn't there a distinction made between the people who are being spoken to and distinct different actions and promises from God? I just did a few "ifs" just because
Romans 11:1 I say then hath God cast away His People? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Benjamin 2 God hat NOT cast away His People which He FOREKNEW. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3 Lord they have killed thy prophets and digged down thine altars and I am left alone and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
Romans 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Romans 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, be not high minded but fear.
Romans 11:21 For IF God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He ALSO SPARE NOT THEE
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore THE GOODNESS and SEVERITY of God on them which fell severity but toward thee goodness, IF thou continue in His goodness OTHERWIS THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF
Romans 11:23 And they also, IF they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:24 For IF thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away THEIR sins.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTION they are beloved for the father's sakes
Romans 11:29 for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
God speaking of His covenant with His election
Romans 11:30 For as YE in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and his ways past finding out!
God is husband to Israel but only a remnant will be saved .. the 144 000 are 12 000 from each of the twelve tribes of Judah .. the elect are God's chosen and do not include every being .. as I have said and repeat, we must believe, love or be accursed, obey Christ's two great commandments, and repent when we fail to do so or not repent and choose lake of fire for all eternity .. not God's choice but that person's free will choice
"true" believers choose to do God's Will according to God's Word .. Satan believes but is not saved coz he refuses to do God's Will according to God's Word .. how can anyone who merely believes but does not do God's Will but, rather, continues to do his/her will and to succumb to deliberate sin and to not repent of such have eternal salvation .. not going to happen .. in the lake of fire are 1. Satan and his demons; 2. unbelievers; 3. believers who are unrepentant sinners ..
I do still sin but repent for doing so and sincerely try to overcome said sins .. I have overcome some through being strengthened by repentance and God's help .. I still need to overcome others and I shall ..