Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Grandpa]

The name calling.
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

You must not have read the post.

It was all scripture. I didn't add anything.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Gotta go sweat for a while.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Who actually does nothing?

Is doing nothing even a possibility?

I'll let you in on a little secret. Only those who Rest in Christ ever even glimpse what obedience, love and following Him are all about.

If you still think it is YOUR work that is required you will never glimpse these things.

Thank you for this secret. As with all things we are called to rest in Jesus, for He is our anchor and foundation.
And if you are asking "who actually does nothing" you either do not talk to people or choose not to observe
how people behave.

I am not defending doing nothing, but many here on these forums believes you can do nothing,
have no fruit of the change within and still it is true. You could die in this state and God would
welcome you in with open arms, so they believe. The language goes, the instant you believe you
become an eternal being, and secured in heaven.

Even Paul said this

20 I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26

Paul firmly believed in showing fruit of faith to prove it is real.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay,

Posthuman made a great point;

"there are ditches on both sides of the road: you can veer over to one side and find no offense in sin at all, and even glory in it ((e.g. 1 Cor. 5:2)). or you can over-correct the bus and say salvation is through submission to the Law ((e.g. basically all of Galatians))

the people who have no compulsion to do what is right in their lives abuse the grace of God and frustrate the Spirit, if they even have the Spirit, because the Spirit leads us in righteousness, and the life we receive is knowledge of God, and in God there is no sin at all -- so they walk outside of Him, not abiding in Him. "

I read posts from people on here that all believe the SAME THING but are at a place where one wishes to emphasize the importance of recognizing Grace and the other one wishes to emphasize the importance of The Holy Spirits work on leading us to righteousness! So ,there many of us are on the same road with the same understanding OVERREACTING to one another emphasis!

So, I'm in the boat fishing with my buddy who won't shut up about how important it is to chose the right bait! Which one is better after it has rained and which one is better on sunny days, which one is better on cloudy days, which one is better in the Spring, then the Summer, then the Fall! Then with a cocky grin he casts his scientifically baited hook la dee da! to the other side of the river and his hook, swivel & sinker comes off his line! Big Grin, I asked if good knots are important too?! It's all important! Especially the beers! Hey were fishin here!

Are there some who say Grace Unmerited Justification has nothing to do with salvation? Yep, They are wrong!

Are there some who say That through Grace we can live a life of licentiousness with no need to follow the Holy Spirits guiding us into righteousness? Yep! They are wrong!

Licentiousness is not a christian who sins, If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves

Licentiousness is not a person who struggles with a particular sin habit. Everyone has a besetting sin, some may never find total victory over it

Licentiousness is not a baby in Christ who is still learning and growing, and still does some of his worldly things because he has yet to be trained by it

Licentious is a person who has, well here, Lets let Jude show us who they are. Since he is the one who used the term.

Jude:
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [e]dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [f]contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

12 These are [g]spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving onlythemselves. They are clouds without water, carried [h]about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Apostates Predicted
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These aresensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

You see, these are not struggling christians, they are non believers who walk among us claiming to be believers who have never seen God, never met God, and serve self continually. Notice we might not even notice them, but they are there.

Once again, I have yet to meat anyone like this in CC..

Paul praised God for his grace also. Admitting his own sinfulness (rom 7) Was paul licentiousness.

 

[gb9]

Okay,

Posthuman made a great point;

"there are ditches on both sides of the road: you can veer over to one side and find no offense in sin at all, and even glory in it ((e.g. 1 Cor. 5:2)). or you can over-correct the bus and say salvation is through submission to the Law ((e.g. basically all of Galatians))

the people who have no compulsion to do what is right in their lives abuse the grace of God and frustrate the Spirit, if they even have the Spirit, because the Spirit leads us in righteousness, and the life we receive is knowledge of God, and in God there is no sin at all -- so they walk outside of Him, not abiding in Him. "

I read posts from people on here that all believe the SAME THING but are at a place where one wishes to emphasize the importance of recognizing Grace and the other one wishes to emphasize the importance of The Holy Spirits work on leading us to righteousness! So ,there many of us are on the same road with the same understanding OVERREACTING to one another emphasis!

So, I'm in the boat fishing with my buddy who won't shut up about how important it is to chose the right bait! Which one is better after it has rained and which one is better on sunny days, which one is better on cloudy days, which one is better in the Spring, then the Summer, then the Fall! Then with a cocky grin he casts his scientifically baited hook la dee da! to the other side of the river and his hook, swivel & sinker comes off his line! Big Grin, I asked if good knots are important too?! It's all important! Especially the beers! Hey were fishin here!

Are there some who say Grace Unmerited Justification has nothing to do with salvation? Yep, They are wrong!

Are there some who say That through Grace we can live a life of licentiousness with no need to follow the Holy Spirits guiding us into righteousness? Yep! They are wrong!

but here is what e.g. is saying - who is saying this?? where is it? who is saying that " all we have to do is proclaim belief in Christ, and then how we live and what we do does not matter".

where is this being typed out?

 

[gb9]

Who actually does nothing?

Is doing nothing even a possibility?

I'll let you in on a little secret. Only those who Rest in Christ ever even glimpse what obedience, love and following Him are all about.

If you still think it is YOUR work that is required you will never glimpse these things.

it seems like what they are backdoor saying is " if you are not following the Law and keeping the Sabbath ( they will not say it is not required ) , then you are living a careless sinless lifestyle".

could be wrong, but that is the feeling I get....

 

[FollowHisSteps]

licentious
adjective
li·cen·tious | \ lī-ˈsen(t)-shəs \
Definition of licentious

1: lacking legal or moral restraintsespecially : disregarding sexual restraints, licentious behavior, licentious revelers
2: marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness


9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 Cor 5

Another way of describing licentious people is lawless

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
15 Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
2 Peter 3

To disregard the law of the Spirit, love, and its morality, is to become lawless, licentious, and to fall from grace.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The above post only makes sense to those committed to following Jesus and doing all to
make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

And yet there are some who will say this is legalism and evil. Strange because they will
also claim to know Jesus. Which is quite a contradiction indeed.

 

[SimpleGardner]

but here is what e.g. is saying - who is saying this?? where is it? who is saying that " all we have to do is proclaim belief in Christ, and then how we live and what we do does not matter".

where is this being typed out?

Okay, My apologies,

I was not inferring that anyone here on CC is saying this, not pointing to someone here.

If I had I would say; "there are some on this site who..."

Moving along, there are many people, in this world who call themselves Christians, who overemphasize to varying degrees, to the point of "going into a ditch" either Grace or Works of righteousness.

 

[DeighAnn]

Let's say ALL legalists "say" that they don't keep the law for salvation because that is impossible.

Let's say ALL legalists "say" they don't keep the law for righteousness because that is also impossible.

Let's say ALL legalists "say" they aren't trying to be justified by the law.


And yet all these people seem to talk about is law, explaining why everyone has to obey it and work at it. How a person is lawless if they aren't working at it and cannot be godly if they aren't under it. They must all be sinning non-stop if they aren't working at the law.

And then after all that they actually act exasperated with the people who disagree with them. Thinking that those who aren't working at the law don't understand what they say...

Ok. Let me try and go about it this way.

My definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, the same way, and expect a different result.

You and I are 180 degrees apart. We are polar opposites. Diametrically opposed.
Any conversation or communication we have is bad, non productive, caustic, not only to ourselves but to all those around us.

What I am asking you, again, as one Christian to another, IN ANOTHER WAY is for you to please, leave me alone. in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, leave me alone.

Please do not respond or address me and I will, as a Christian, do the same for you.

If you somehow find me irresistible, or for some odd reason have fallen head over heels in love with me and just can not resist or control yourself and you must communicate in some way shape or form, I will understand it is a soulful longing coming from deep within your spirit that is screaming out for help that only I can assist you with and you need to keep me close so as you can walk with Christ as I do.

 

[SimpleGardner]

The above post only makes sense to those committed to following Jesus and doing all to
make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

And yet there are some who will say this is legalism and evil. Strange because they will
also claim to know Jesus. Which is quite a contradiction indeed.

No brother, I agree with you. I think many are blurring the lines between justification and sanctification. Who here on this site would argue that sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit within us to cast us in the Image of Jesus? When this results in us not stealing or murdering or committing adultery or bearing false witness this is not legalism, it is sanctification, the process of being made righteous! Notice I didn't touch the third rail / Sabbath. Romans 14

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Okay, My apologies,

I was not inferring that anyone here on CC is saying this, not pointing to someone here.

If I had I would say; "there are some on this site who..."

Moving along, there are many people, in this world who call themselves Christians, who overemphasize to varying degrees, to the point of "going into a ditch" either Grace or Works of righteousness.

On this subject about overemphasize, how do you classify those who regard believers as evil and
some possessed by evil spirits or under their influence. There comes a point where trying to find
enemies where there are none, is actually declaring yourself as the enemy.

It strikes me when an individual takes a faith position and then decides to call the rest of the
church evil, has actually created their own faith. They may try very hard to claim they hold the
authentic view, but if there is no precedent in church history, they are heretical. And the church
has a long history of such discussions and battles.

The distraction is the theological argument, the truth is they hate and have a real antagonism against
a group from their past who they wish to now fight and defeat. Once such a bitterness has taken hold
it can work like gangrene, with all the miss-fits and their lists of grievances that grow daily. Their common
theme is the antagonism and general disparaging remarks rather than talking about scripture and
literally discovering more about God.

 

[DeighAnn]

The reason no one could follow the law of Moses was because Jesus had not been crucified and they had not been baptized.

We crucify our flesh, we raise Spirit led. In the Spirit, just as the law was a part of Jesus, the Living WORD, we only have to do what comes naturally to our New creation. We are not under the law, we are a part of the law, proven by being written on our hearts and minds. We are obedient to it, naturally, The only time we would "break" one of the laws written inside us would be when the flesh that contains us asserts control, the sinful nature. To get right back to spirit led we repent of that flesh led moment and continue on with our walk with God.

One reason we do this besides all the ones we know because Imitation is the highest form of flattery and we LOVE THE LORD GOD

 

[SimpleGardner]

On this subject about overemphasize, how do you classify those who regard believers as evil and
some possessed by evil spirits or under their influence. There comes a point where trying to find
enemies where there are none, is actually declaring yourself as the enemy.

It strikes me when an individual takes a faith position and then decides to call the rest of the
church evil, has actually created their own faith. They may try very hard to claim they hold the
authentic view, but if there is no precedent in church history, they are heretical. And the church
has a long history of such discussions and battles.

The distraction is the theological argument, the truth is they hate and have a real antagonism against
a group from their past who they wish to now fight and defeat. Once such a bitterness has taken hold
it can work like gangrene, with all the miss-fits and their lists of grievances that grow daily. Their common
theme is the antagonism and general disparaging remarks rather than talking about scripture and
literally discovering more about God.

"How do I classify those who regard beleivers as evil?" you ask...

Isa 5:20-21 KJV Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (21) Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

To do that is a DANGEROUS thing!

The word "woe' in ancient Hebrew was Sigh - Disaster - Lamentation! BAD NEWS! Basically out of our hands at that point.

Then in James:

Jas 4:11-12 KJV Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. (12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


And Psalms:

Psa 50:16-20 KJV But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? (17) Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. (18) When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. (19) Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. (20) Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

I could go on, but it enough to read that God will not let it pass!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The reason no one could follow the law of Moses was because Jesus had not been crucified and they had not been baptized.

We crucify our flesh, we raise Spirit led. In the Spirit, just as the law was a part of Jesus, the Living WORD, we only have to do what comes naturally to our New creation. We are not under the law, we are a part of the law, proven by being written on our hearts and minds. We are obedient to it, naturally, The only time we would "break" one of the laws written inside us would be when the flesh that contains us asserts control, the sinful nature. To get right back to spirit led we repent of that flesh led moment and continue on with our walk with God.

One reason we do this besides all the ones we know because Imitation is the highest form of flattery and we LOVE THE LORD GOD

I am not sure this statement is true, about not being able to follow the law of Moses.

Paul described himself in this manner

4 If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
Phil 3

The rich young ruler came to Jesus and said he followed the law from his youth, and Jesus
did not correct him.

Equally if one failed in the law, you could have a sacrifice to get back right with God.
So walking with God was never thought of as a perfect walk, but a walk of intent, with the
ability to correct failures, as King David did.

I agree that now we have a different relationship with God in our hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit
at work in us.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I am not sure this statement is true, about not being able to follow the law of Moses.

Paul described himself in this manner

4 If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
Phil 3

The rich young ruler came to Jesus and said he followed the law from his youth, and Jesus
did not correct him.

Equally if one failed in the law, you could have a sacrifice to get back right with God.
So walking with God was never thought of as a perfect walk, but a walk of intent, with the
ability to correct failures, as King David did.

I agree that now we have a different relationship with God in our hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit
at work in us.

Lest we forget:

Gen 26:5 KJV Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


and


Luk 1:5-6 KJV There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (6) And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


there are more too!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

"How do I classify those who regard beleivers as evil?" you ask...

Isa 5:20-21 KJV Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (21) Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

To do that is a DANGEROUS thing!

The word "woe' in ancient Hebrew was Sigh - Disaster - Lamentation! BAD NEWS! Basically out of our hands at that point.

Then in James:

Jas 4:11-12 KJV Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. (12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


And Psalms:

Psa 50:16-20 KJV But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? (17) Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. (18) When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. (19) Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. (20) Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

I could go on, but it enough to read that God will not let it pass!

Once the culture among some has gone this far, it looks like there is little return.
What is obvious, is the approach appears almost at the first few posts.

It is sad when some who are unaware of the emotional lead, just play along.
But then this is the internet, when things are assumed rather than slowly worked
through. God bless you.

 

[lightbearer]

your conclusion that Christ = the Law is invalid.

That was Never stated. Maybe you are not actually reading the posts

 

[SimpleGardner]

Once the culture among some has gone this far, it looks like there is little return.
What is obvious, is the approach appears almost at the first few posts.

It is sad when some who are unaware of the emotional lead, just play along.
But then this is the internet, when things are assumed rather than slowly worked
through. God bless you.

Thank you....perhaps one of the simplest things a man can do is establish common ground where ever it is. Any effort on your part to declare common ground such as; if you both Serve God and Love Jesus then far and above all disputes you are brothers.

That is our common ground and it should always be enough to reestablish fellowship. Love covers a multitude of sins and unity, even in the midst of heated debate is soothing to the soul!

 

[gb9]

The reason no one could follow the law of Moses was because Jesus had not been crucified and they had not been baptized.

We crucify our flesh, we raise Spirit led. In the Spirit, just as the law was a part of Jesus, the Living WORD, we only have to do what comes naturally to our New creation. We are not under the law, we are a part of the law, proven by being written on our hearts and minds. We are obedient to it, naturally, The only time we would "break" one of the laws written inside us would be when the flesh that contains us asserts control, the sinful nature. To get right back to spirit led we repent of that flesh led moment and continue on with our walk with God.

One reason we do this besides all the ones we know because Imitation is the highest form of flattery and we LOVE THE LORD GOD

ah, but here is the thing- when a person comes to Christ, and truly believes , then that person is saved, and the Holy Sprit comes inside of that person.

then, that person will consistently ( not perfectly ) manifest the fruits of the Sprit. to which Paul said "against these their is no Law".

what is not mentioned in the fruits of the Sprit?

Sabbath keeping.