Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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UnderGrace
Guest
I have many times a completely misused text to support that works are necessary for salvation, or some people were never truly saved, as I already told you James is not addressing the plan of salvation, he is addressing putting your new life under the law of liberty to use.
And "useless" just means something that is not used.
And "dead faith" is faith that is inoperative when one really looks at language from a historical linguistical lens.. it is faith that is not being used.
Something can only be dead if it was once alive and since we know that salvation is secure, the people to whom James was writing were not putting their faith to use.
We are exhorted as believers to let our light shine before men and that is the central thesis of James.
One can have faith in self, others or God. They can even have a mixture whereby they trust in themselves + God + others. Only when someone trusts God completely, is their faith valid. So, to say our faith is something that we produce or has some mystical air, misses the mark.
When Paul says "faith that can move mountains", we both know what he is talking about.
It doesn't both me anymore. I got upset in a live chat forum where I had 4 OSAS followers gossiping about me for an hour and a half, over 3 scriptures I posted to a OSAS believer- the man asked me if the other man who is clubbing is saved, I said no and asked him why does a godly man want to go in clubs with sinful things that are sexually immoral. I was called judgemental, I was sworn at, I was belittled, I was told I am going to cause people to commit suicide, someone also told me they own the chat forum and was acting threatening towards me and a man said he didnt care how he treated me because I am Australian and said why dont you come over here and hit me and hit me with a snake "mocking my nationality or country, I am not sure". It was shocking. But I now know how these people operate. 4 people all turned it back on me and were talking about me, it wasnt nice. I said nothing on live chat for 1 hour and a half while they gossiped about me, telling me I have no right to say this man isn't Christian and because I gave a scripture that says we should flee from sexual immorality. Another guy said "Oh people on here, use the bible to hurt others". "I was the only one who quoted about 3 scriptures, that was it". But yet the amount of judgement that comes from these people is shocking, no one pulled the man up for swearing at me. The other man called me a liar, I am not lying.If you have been accused, then you are in good company
Agreed. Abraham's offering up of Isaac was many YEARS after his earlier "believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"... his justification was not in question in God's mind, in all those intervening years (Romans 4's chronology).
And Abraham was "called the friend of God" [James 2 also] by other men (2Chron20:7); the point being made here in James.
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UnderGrace
Guest
U
UnderGrace
Guest
You obviously have very different beliefs about the book of James
Thank God... it makes the bible wonderfully consistent.
I have three eyes by the way.
Right, God can move any mountain for a Child that "aligns” his will with His will.
What change has the dog experienced? None he was born a dog and will die a dog. The moth perished a moth never returning to the larvae state.
Those who teach that salvation can be lost or forfeited seem unable to understand that Christ does not lose any of the sheep in His care.
How do you explain the passage in 2 Cor 5:17?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Either you don't read the bible or you just live in your own imagination. You have placed those caveats, not the Lord.
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Where does the Lord place those caveats that you have imagined?
Once you are a sheep does the Lord ever say that you can stop believing, stop having faith and stop thinking He is the Way the Truth and the Life and therefore snatch yourself from His Hand?
No need to say someone is living in their own imagination. They have a right to their own beliefs thank you and so are you. You dont live in your own imagination you choose to believe what you believe. Someone elses truth may not be yours.
useless - something not used
dead faith - inoperative faith, faith not being used
Useless - is something that has no application or use. An axe is not useless when not being used, just idle.
Dead faith - is faith with no life in it. A dead faith cannot be given life, because it is then live faith.
If you need to change the meaning of words to justify your position, you are in a bad place.
Cults have done this throughout the centuries because the real meaning is too challenging.
James is simply declaring some believe they are saved and know Jesus but do not.
You cannot be alive in Christ without deeds, you are dead to Christ without deeds.
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
James 2
This is so obvious and true, only those who have no deeds would try and invent faith without deeds
is real faith. And obviously they want to do this, or else James is saying their faith means nothing.
You're right.
I should have used better words. I'm kind of in a hurry and have to go to work.
Maybe I should have said 'you've interpreted incorrectly'....
It is not only hyperbole, Paul has made it clear that love and faith are two different things. Love is not faith and faith is not love but love is the greatest of the two. You can have faith and not love. And it is not about loving God or Christ, it is the love for one another, for if we love one another, we love God.
But love for other people is a work and must be a work because we have to put effort. We can not love others only in our hearts, love is only full when the people that are loved fell loved and they will only feel loved through our actions and words (works).
It is, "Do to others what you would like them do to you", not, "feel for others what you would like them feel for you"
Faith in Christ is only foundational but Love is the identity in Christ. So faith alone doesn't save but being obedient to the command to love one another onto faith, then salvation is achieved.
Matt 25:
37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’