Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[TheDivineWatermark]

It's about producing fruit

In Philippians 1:11 Paul is praying for them, and says, "[that...that...may abound more and more...that...]... having been filled with the fruit of righteousness, which is by means of Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God"

and in Romans 7:1-4, in verse 4 he says, "Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to belong to another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God"

and in Hebrews 13:20-21, the writer (again) is praying for them, and says, "[Now may the God of peace, having brought out from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus [...] ] equip you in everything good, in order to do His will, working in us that which is well pleasing before Him, through [/by means of] Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory to the ages of the ages. Amen."

 

[Nat2019]

Well maybe you were not saved but that has nothing to do with the assurance of the believer.

But I truly followed OSAS. I was a devout follower?

 

[UnderGrace]

Of course we do not promise to stop sinning - that would be foolhardy and would fail every time! But with the power of the Spirit we sure do make it our goal to stop sinning like we did in the past.

I make it a goal to walk in the Spirit and the sin issue is not my focus... a focus on sins or the law only makes it more difficult to walk in the Spirit... focus is always Jesus and His gift of righteousness.

 

[Chester]

Well maybe you were not saved but that has nothing to do with the assurance of the believer.

Ha! Like I told you last night - and here we have it - when someone starts not measuring up and is sinning, then the assumption/accusation is that they are/were not saved!

And of course that has an affect on assurance of salvation - if I start sinning too much and others accuse me of never being saved, it may have a dramatic affect on my assurance of salvation.

 

[oyster67]

Well Mr Oyster is this about salvation or sanctification?

both

 

[Nat2019]

Ha! Like I told you last night - and here we have it - when someone starts not measuring up and is sinning, then the assumption/accusation is that they are/were not saved!

And of course that has an affect on assurance of salvation - if I start sinning too much and others accuse me of never being saved, it may have a dramatic affect on my assurance of salvation.

Then other OSAS believers say your not born again. And it hurts your feelings.

 

[Chester]

But I truly followed OSAS. I was a devout follower?

If you were following OSAS and did not have faith in Christ, you were not born again. If you had faith in Christ, then you were born again.

 

[Nat2019]

Then other OSAS believers say your not born again. And it hurts your feelings.

I never felt assured. Just confused constantly as to why I couldn't change and was In a deep depression asking God why isnt the spirit in me making me change

 

[Chester]

both

Just let the text say what it says - if you come to John 15 without preset doctrines it is really not that difficult to understand.

 

[Nat2019]

If you were following OSAS and did not have faith in Christ, you were not born again. If you had faith in Christ, then you were born again.

I had faith, that you OSAS believers describe

 

[UnderGrace]

But I truly followed OSAS. I was a devout follower?

A follower of OSAS?
What does that mean?

As Chester stated our faith is in Christ Jesus, the person, for salvation not a doctrine.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So your telling me I was saved? While living a wicked lifestyle? Because I was not saved, not according to the bible. Every time I read It i was under Gods condemnation and I even became angry at my bible when following OSAS. Because the word of God made me angry because everytime I would come to a verse about my sin

You were expecting God to "hear" you, but you weren't saved?

I'm not saying you were. I'm asking what you grasped about the passage in 1 John 5... because I heard you mention nothing close to what it says.

1 John 5 - 9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.

 

[Chester]

I had faith, that you OSAS believers describe

LOL! Am I, now, too, an OSAS believer?

 

[UnderGrace]

Ha! Like I told you last night - and here we have it - when someone starts not measuring up and is sinning, then the assumption/accusation is that they are/were not saved!

And of course that has an affect on assurance of salvation - if I start sinning too much and others accuse me of never being saved, it may have a dramatic affect on my assurance of salvation.

Well I am not a Calvinist, I do not believe that a person's performance of good works, the promise of good works, or the evidence of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.

This doctrine has caused immeasurable harm over the years imho.

 

[Nat2019]

You were expecting God to "hear" you, but you weren't saved?

I'm not saying you were. I'm asking what you grasped about the passage in 1 John 5... because I heard you mention nothing close to what it says.

So you must not commit sin then? Because if you do you weren't saved and everything will be a waste of time in the end.

 

[oyster67]

I don't understand why you blame a sure hope and a steadfast trust in God for your sinfulness and the apathy you describe.

Perhaps he is pointing out that some use OSAS as an excuse to live like hell and pretend they are going to Heaven.

 

[Chester]

I had faith, that you OSAS believers describe

My suggestion for you:

Focus on faith in Jesus Christ and live out that faith daily by the power of the Holy Spirit. Expect battles, intense battles, for we are in a war (against the Devil). You will have to daily fight against the inclinations of the flesh, but do it, FIGHT - and having done all - to stand! (Ephl 6)

At the same time - rest in your position and assurance in Christ Jesus. You are a child of the Creator of the Universe - You are a child of the King! Your faith in Jesus Christ gives you the security of life both now and eternally in Christ Jesus.

And all that I write above is because I do not believe in OSAS.

 

[Nat2019]

So you must not commit sin then? Because if you do you weren't saved and everything will be a waste of time in the end.

So because of my sins while in OSAS I was considered an unbeliever. But I thought I was justified by faith alone. Obviously not now. My sins were worse than yours.

 

[Nat2019]

Perhaps he is pointing out that some use OSAS as an excuse to live like hell and pretend they are going to Heaven.

I never made an excuse I was struggling with sin. It had control over my life. It wasnt an excuse I was trapped by it. OSAS never freed me. Nor the teachings of it.

 

[Chester]

I never made an excuse I was struggling with sin. It had control over my life. It wasnt an excuse I was trapped by it. OSAS never freed me. Nor the teachings of it.

I don't think he was talking about you -