Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
How do you get past these words that the Lord Jesus spoke?
You know that if you were still sacrificing animals that Christians would take this as a mockery of Christianity, right?
How is it you don't know that working at the 10 commandments is the SAME mockery of Christianity?
NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until ALL is fulfilled.
In order to come to Christ and receive Rest from your work at the law you have to believe that it has been fulfilled.
Otherwise it is just a bunch of legalists and judaizers getting together and deciding which laws they like best and which they don't. Pretty much the exact thing you just accused someone else of. Kind of ironic, don't you think?
How do you get past these words that the Lord Jesus spoke?
You know that if you were still sacrificing animals that Christians would take this as a mockery of Christianity, right?
How is it you don't know that working at the 10 commandments is the SAME mockery of Christianity?
NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW until ALL is fulfilled.
In order to come to Christ and receive Rest from your work at the law you have to believe that it has been fulfilled.
Otherwise it is just a bunch of legalists and judaizers getting together and deciding which laws they like best and which they don't. Pretty much the exact thing you just accused someone else of. Kind of ironic, don't you think?
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I have no idea what your saying, So will not even try to respond. Your not making any sense..
You have already proven you and those like you have no idea what true grace believers believe. So it is fruitless to continue to try to show you or them. The slander will continue because of closed hearts.
I have no idea what your saying, So will not even try to respond. Your not making any sense..
You have already proven you and those like you have no idea what true grace believers believe. So it is fruitless to continue to try to show you or them. The slander will continue because of closed hearts.
What dawned on me recently is something stranger than I could imagine.
Jesus is Gods word in human form. Everything God spoke forward, the message of His heart, life and essence
is Jesus.
Gods word, His commands are part of Jesus. By His words dwelling in us, we have Jesus dwelling in us.
We live in a world defined by the worlds experience concepts. God the creator is the source of it all and
declares His son is His word. Jesus made it clearer still. His words are eternal, His words when the dwell
in us and become our heart, we enter the Kingdom, we are one with Him.
Do I understand this? No, but I trust my Lord and His truth. God bless you.
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
John 5
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14
Jesus is Gods word in human form. Everything God spoke forward, the message of His heart, life and essence
is Jesus.
Gods word, His commands are part of Jesus. By His words dwelling in us, we have Jesus dwelling in us.
We live in a world defined by the worlds experience concepts. God the creator is the source of it all and
declares His son is His word. Jesus made it clearer still. His words are eternal, His words when the dwell
in us and become our heart, we enter the Kingdom, we are one with Him.
Do I understand this? No, but I trust my Lord and His truth. God bless you.
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
John 5
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
John 14
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Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come:
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Judgment begins at the pulpit for a good reason.
Do you ever think about when that moment comes, and you, all alone are called,as you are walking up those books are opened and you when you come to a stop, you are standing there before God sitting on His throne, lake of fire on the other side, all of creation watching, and then when He starts reading, He looks up at you, hopefully not mad... makes me think back to Moses...and He was happy then . Just saying after you have come into knowledge...
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Judgment begins at the pulpit for a good reason.
Do you ever think about when that moment comes, and you, all alone are called,as you are walking up those books are opened and you when you come to a stop, you are standing there before God sitting on His throne, lake of fire on the other side, all of creation watching, and then when He starts reading, He looks up at you, hopefully not mad... makes me think back to Moses...and He was happy then . Just saying after you have come into knowledge...
The 10 commandments CAN'T be what is written on our hearts.
2 Coritnhians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
It is your contention that the ministry of death and condemnation is Gods Law and that it is written on the hearts of people who have come to Christ.
But that is not so. ALL Christians know it and scripture tells us you are wrong as well. All you are doing is what ALL legalists and judaizers do. You are twisting scripture to excuse your work at the law.
Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
How can the ministry of condemnation be written on the heart but there be no condemnation?
How can the ministry of death be written on the heart when it is the law of the Spirit of Life that is written there?
Obviously the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is QUITE a different thing than the ministry of death and condemnation.
2 Coritnhians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
It is your contention that the ministry of death and condemnation is Gods Law and that it is written on the hearts of people who have come to Christ.
But that is not so. ALL Christians know it and scripture tells us you are wrong as well. All you are doing is what ALL legalists and judaizers do. You are twisting scripture to excuse your work at the law.
Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
How can the ministry of condemnation be written on the heart but there be no condemnation?
How can the ministry of death be written on the heart when it is the law of the Spirit of Life that is written there?
Obviously the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is QUITE a different thing than the ministry of death and condemnation.
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A good question. I hope I might be able to expand your thinking a bit, because your response
suggests to me you are limiting the beauty and heart of God.
The objective has never been to fulfil the law but to get to know God.
Why do we not steal from people?
Take a shop. It offers goods brought in from far distant places so we can buy and eat and not
have to travel so far and pay for travel and hassel. For this service we need to pay an extra amount
on top of the value of the food itself. If we steal and destroy the business of the shop, then we will
have to travel to get the food and it cost us more. So in paying for the food we recognise both our
need and the saving all are giving to us by giving us want we need.
And all this is wrapped up in "Do not steal"
Now there is real wisdom here, care and attention for society and the individual, justice for all.
The law was given to provide us with the framework of life and our inter-dependency.
Our society today, with money, banks, contracts, employment, retirement funds, social security is
part of this whole caring framework, without which our society would not function.
And most of this all comes from Gods law. It is this profound. And this is just a small slice of
Gods wisdom planted in scripture, the word of life.
suggests to me you are limiting the beauty and heart of God.
The objective has never been to fulfil the law but to get to know God.
Why do we not steal from people?
Take a shop. It offers goods brought in from far distant places so we can buy and eat and not
have to travel so far and pay for travel and hassel. For this service we need to pay an extra amount
on top of the value of the food itself. If we steal and destroy the business of the shop, then we will
have to travel to get the food and it cost us more. So in paying for the food we recognise both our
need and the saving all are giving to us by giving us want we need.
And all this is wrapped up in "Do not steal"
Now there is real wisdom here, care and attention for society and the individual, justice for all.
The law was given to provide us with the framework of life and our inter-dependency.
Our society today, with money, banks, contracts, employment, retirement funds, social security is
part of this whole caring framework, without which our society would not function.
And most of this all comes from Gods law. It is this profound. And this is just a small slice of
Gods wisdom planted in scripture, the word of life.
If we were to all go back to the beginning of this thread and read all the posts, those who "advocate" almost exclusively the "feelings of or doctrine most like or most of the time taken to mean" ONE work, law not for gentiles, just Holy led, you would find the opposite to be happening of what they are preaching it produces. Instead what we see do see happening is a distinct lack of love and empathy that comes across the postings.
Yet those who find those who support the Law as something to keep and obey and use as the guide for right and wrong, good and evil, law and lawless, right up there with the Holy Spirit led life, have love in theirs.
We are over 1600 posts in. You think I am lying? If you think I am, the proof is right there at your back button. Who is angriest, most aggressive, most monotonous, most bullying, most peaceful, most thoughtful, most wise, most like God wants us to be? It is super easy to see. Can it be denied?
If you are wavering on which path is right, start at the beginning. It really will not take you long at all to see which doctrine is right, for you
Yet those who find those who support the Law as something to keep and obey and use as the guide for right and wrong, good and evil, law and lawless, right up there with the Holy Spirit led life, have love in theirs.
We are over 1600 posts in. You think I am lying? If you think I am, the proof is right there at your back button. Who is angriest, most aggressive, most monotonous, most bullying, most peaceful, most thoughtful, most wise, most like God wants us to be? It is super easy to see. Can it be denied?
If you are wavering on which path is right, start at the beginning. It really will not take you long at all to see which doctrine is right, for you
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Well FollowHisSteps,
Isn't it lovely to find the flow of light and life, and the harmony of it all! An most of all the joy that this Yoke he offers is no burden, no it is easy and light!
Sadly many will reject the Logos/Jesus/The Law/Gods Will and in that day he will say;
Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.(anomia-without the Law)
Stand as they will on the misinterpreted comments on the Laws of God, they ignore the Holy Spirits lead to "Love The Logos/Jesus/The Law/Gods Will" What else is there?
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There is a miss-understanding of the law. Though it was break one law and you are
a sinner, it was then you could offer a sacrifice and be atoned for. It was to emphasis
sin needs to be sorted out, and resolved, not as a means of self justification.
The argument seems to go because one cannot walk perfectly the measure is wrong.
But the principle is learn to walk, and when you fail, get it sorted and walk on until
the day you walk with fault or problem.
Now a cynic will say it is too hard and no one will ever walk as Jesus walked.
Now that is an opinion except the apostles believed this was our calling and we
needed to strive for the goal, the upward calling in Christ Jesus.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3
a sinner, it was then you could offer a sacrifice and be atoned for. It was to emphasis
sin needs to be sorted out, and resolved, not as a means of self justification.
The argument seems to go because one cannot walk perfectly the measure is wrong.
But the principle is learn to walk, and when you fail, get it sorted and walk on until
the day you walk with fault or problem.
Now a cynic will say it is too hard and no one will ever walk as Jesus walked.
Now that is an opinion except the apostles believed this was our calling and we
needed to strive for the goal, the upward calling in Christ Jesus.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
2 Tim 4
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3
If Jesus is The Law and you have not The Law, then you have not Jesus. The only way to fellowship with Jesus and The Father are through knowing and keeping His commandments. No end runs.
No way to the father except through Him!
Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No way to Him except through Having and keeping His commandments.
Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Confirmation of above verse
Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.G458 (without the Law)
G458
ἀνομία
anomia
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
So Jesus is not saying they are not on the surface workers in the church...NO, He is saying they are workers in the church who work; WITHOUT THE LAW.
No way to the father except through Him!
Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
No way to Him except through Having and keeping His commandments.
Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Confirmation of above verse
Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.G458 (without the Law)
G458
ἀνομία
anomia
Thayer Definition:
1) the condition of without law
So Jesus is not saying they are not on the surface workers in the church...NO, He is saying they are workers in the church who work; WITHOUT THE LAW.
Yeah, Romans 7:1-4 kinda makes that clear:
Romans 7 -
"1 Or are you ignorant brothers (for I speak to those knowing the law), that the law rules over the man for as long as the time he is alive? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to the living husband; but if the husband should die, she is cleared from the law of the husband. 3 So then, if she is to another man, the husband being alive, she will be called an adulteress; but if the husband should die, she is free from the law, so as for her not to be an adulteress, having been to another man.
"4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the Law through [/by means of] the body of Christ, for you to belong to another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God."
Romans 7 -
"1 Or are you ignorant brothers (for I speak to those knowing the law), that the law rules over the man for as long as the time he is alive? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to the living husband; but if the husband should die, she is cleared from the law of the husband. 3 So then, if she is to another man, the husband being alive, she will be called an adulteress; but if the husband should die, she is free from the law, so as for her not to be an adulteress, having been to another man.
"4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have been put to death to the Law through [/by means of] the body of Christ, for you to belong to another, to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit to God."
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