Divorce?
- Thread starter MissingLove
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Welcome and Blessings! No one truly knows yours and His situation. I have been divorced myself,it isn't an easy decision either way. I would suggest to you to examine yourself and make sure you are spiritually where the Lord wants you! Pray asking the Holy Spirit to lead you into the word about love and marriage! Prayer can change the way we look at things,and change the hearts of both involved. Lifting you up in prayer for guidance and right decisions! 🙏🙏🙏
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most of us will not easily admit that we entered into a 'carnal-marriage', and not a marriage that God ordained -
all of the trials and tribulations speak for themselves, plus all of the 'un-mention-able-things' that we just cannot
tell' at the time, but will eventually be confessed, out loud, one way or another, in His order,...
I, myself, in total naivete, married a 'satanist', a lover-server of the dark-world, and an expert in magic & deceptiveness,
and pharmikia -
I fell into his 'spells' hook-line-sinker', and I truly 'believed' that I was a 'true christian', but, was actually blinded by 'false-faith'...
I eventually realized that I was not a Christian at all, but only believed what others, my then church-s told me -
not only was I NOT a True Christian, but God showed me that my 'false-conversion' was just a sham and that He
had not yet called me into His bosom, but that I had been totally duped, as so many others before me...
my life was an un-deniable evidence of who I really was, the hard evidence was in how I was living my life,
once My Saviour began to reveal it to me, little by little...
Brothers and Sisters, when The Holy Spirit calls you 'out of Sodom, everything begins to change in a brand new HOLY way,
your True Christian Life in Jesus Christ's Name truly begins, one day at a time, step-by-step up His Ladder of Light,
and onto Life, Everlasting Life...
all of the trials and tribulations speak for themselves, plus all of the 'un-mention-able-things' that we just cannot
tell' at the time, but will eventually be confessed, out loud, one way or another, in His order,...
I, myself, in total naivete, married a 'satanist', a lover-server of the dark-world, and an expert in magic & deceptiveness,
and pharmikia -
I fell into his 'spells' hook-line-sinker', and I truly 'believed' that I was a 'true christian', but, was actually blinded by 'false-faith'...
I eventually realized that I was not a Christian at all, but only believed what others, my then church-s told me -
not only was I NOT a True Christian, but God showed me that my 'false-conversion' was just a sham and that He
had not yet called me into His bosom, but that I had been totally duped, as so many others before me...
my life was an un-deniable evidence of who I really was, the hard evidence was in how I was living my life,
once My Saviour began to reveal it to me, little by little...
Brothers and Sisters, when The Holy Spirit calls you 'out of Sodom, everything begins to change in a brand new HOLY way,
your True Christian Life in Jesus Christ's Name truly begins, one day at a time, step-by-step up His Ladder of Light,
and onto Life, Everlasting Life...
K
Wow! Just wow! The judging responses of the people here just amazes me. And not only are you judging her you are judging me! How dare you say such a thing to me!! This woman came here for advice. She made clear that she wanted to do what was right, that she was praying about the situation, that she was willing to go to counseling, that she herself was not perfect and she loved her husband. Still a group of you insist she needs to examine herself. Then her husband comes to her and says he wants a divorce, and a group of you say she's not submissive enough. Finally she says that her husband is CHEATING on her with another WOMAN and you still need to hear his side because maybe he's still in the right and she's not prayed, submitted, and examined herself enough!! Hey, remind me if I ever have a marriage problem not to come to you lot for empathy and advice. Apparently the woman is to blame no matter if the husband is up under some whore. How ridiculous!!
I am not judging this woman,nor you. I have read the responses and if indeed these are true circumstances then the Lord's leadership NEEDS to be sought and found! The OP has received several posts of good advice from many,she will do what she will do! I am the only one of my siblings that has been thru divorces,the others have been married many many yrs.to the same ppl! I too was cheated on,but her decision must be made in a prayerful state regardless of our opinions! I thought we were here in these forums to share the word and enjoin in prayer. I am praying for your sisters situation as well. My own dad was very abusive physicall,mentally,and emotionally to my mom and us children but she never left for 32 yrs. She passed away at 56, loving and praising Jesus! We begged her also. Some ppl are STRONG enough to endure,if this OP needs to make a decision the best we can do is PRAY! 🙏🙏🙏
K
No,no need to ask forgiveness. Perhaps reading the post before yours just angered me so much that I reacted more forcefully to yours. I'm going to put it very simply, the OP was in an abusive and loveless marriage. Then she realized that her husband was cheating on her with a friend. I do not believe God would expect any spouse, woman or man, to stay in an abusive situation. I have personally seen the effect it has had on several women in my life. I've seen the effect it's had on children. If anyone here thinks this is God's will either you don't understand the situation or you are being intentionally blind. Now I can take you deeper into what I mean and why I am saying this is not God's will for the family if you care to know. If not, that's fine also.
Now when presidente says things like a man might tell his wife " you're so fat I can't stand to see you naked and can't stand to sleep with you" or " you look like a whale" I don't know if he finds that humorous, surely he would never say such a thing himself. He doesn't see that as abuse. But leastamoungmany you mentioned my sister, Well my sister has had an eating disorder issue since she has been married. At times she's gained some weight having children and was healthy. Right now I could post her picture and you'd see she's skin over bones. So it may seem funny and harmless to presidente but when you hug your sister and feel no flesh on her bones you don't see the funny in it. Why has she done this to herself? Because her husband recently told her to go find another man to sleep with. He said more but I can't share it here. So yes, do forgive me if I react strongly to woman that I see that are being abused. When you get the late night calls, when you see the tears and heartbreak, when you see lives destroyed, when you have to pray someone through, when you have to worry about a persons safety maybe you'd react as strongly as I do too. And for those of you who say you need to see the other side I've prayed with my BIL. I've talked with and encouraged him, I've encouraged him to go for help. But here it is folks, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. God is not going to force His will on anyone. And there is a point when God does not expect you to stay in abuse and danger. You see many people have convinced my sister to stay, that it's not right or Christian for her to leave. I have told her she has to make the decision, I don't want to be seen as swaying her opinion. She has to make this decision. And so I pray, watch and weep as my sister, a beautiful flower, is crushed and trampled under by her husband and his family telling her she is worthless, a troublemaker, and an unfit mother. Folks if you believe that is God's will you are blind and have no heart nor empathy. You certainly don't have the heart of God.
Now when presidente says things like a man might tell his wife " you're so fat I can't stand to see you naked and can't stand to sleep with you" or " you look like a whale" I don't know if he finds that humorous, surely he would never say such a thing himself. He doesn't see that as abuse. But leastamoungmany you mentioned my sister, Well my sister has had an eating disorder issue since she has been married. At times she's gained some weight having children and was healthy. Right now I could post her picture and you'd see she's skin over bones. So it may seem funny and harmless to presidente but when you hug your sister and feel no flesh on her bones you don't see the funny in it. Why has she done this to herself? Because her husband recently told her to go find another man to sleep with. He said more but I can't share it here. So yes, do forgive me if I react strongly to woman that I see that are being abused. When you get the late night calls, when you see the tears and heartbreak, when you see lives destroyed, when you have to pray someone through, when you have to worry about a persons safety maybe you'd react as strongly as I do too. And for those of you who say you need to see the other side I've prayed with my BIL. I've talked with and encouraged him, I've encouraged him to go for help. But here it is folks, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. God is not going to force His will on anyone. And there is a point when God does not expect you to stay in abuse and danger. You see many people have convinced my sister to stay, that it's not right or Christian for her to leave. I have told her she has to make the decision, I don't want to be seen as swaying her opinion. She has to make this decision. And so I pray, watch and weep as my sister, a beautiful flower, is crushed and trampled under by her husband and his family telling her she is worthless, a troublemaker, and an unfit mother. Folks if you believe that is God's will you are blind and have no heart nor empathy. You certainly don't have the heart of God.
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ah yes
the submissive woman
pity the poor woman that is blamed for the man's sins
Adam started it and seems many men have never looked back
end of sarcasm
if a man is cheating on his wife, God will hold HIM accountable...no matter WHAT the wife did or didn't do. period
what is there to pray about if a man is cheating, besides what you should do about it?
far too many women AND men think 'Christian' is synonymous for doormat
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op hasn't been here since May 28
the biggest part of counselling is listening
judging is not counselling
further, the best resolution is the one an actual counselor advocates for the person being counselled...the one the counselled person makes for themself
a counselor will not tell the person what to do unless the person is in actual physical danger and in that case, authorities should be involved...especially if there are also children
a counselor will advise AFTER listening because most people in a situation that requires counselling in the first place, want and NEED to be heard because no one is listening in the first place
when a person has their back up against the wall, they are in a situation where they feel choices have been taken from them. a counselor will, again, advise and discuss CHOICES
women, especially, will stay with an abuser, hoping they will change or thinking if they 'pray' enough (if they are a Christian) God will somehow 'get through' to the husband and turn him into Mr Wonderful...or at least Mr Tolerable. best to leave and then pray IMO but I'm not telling anyone what to do ... that is my opinion
the only people who enjoy bad marriages are the ones who create them. possessive, but not loving, demanding but not responsible,
taking without giving, will put up a big scene when the person they are abusing sounds like they might be growing a backbone etc etc
slapping a person with scripture or a big ole heavy Bible is NOT being godly. this is actually the reaction of a person who is threatened by something they understand as being black and white ... apply the rules according to your understanding and all the problems will go away
well no they won't. sin is always the problem but there are people who call themself 'Christian' because they go to church or consider themselves righteous in some way, but they do not emulate Christ and they make promises with no intention of keeping them and will prey on those who are WEAK because of their moral conscience
now how could I could call someone weak if they have a good conscience?
it's like this. if you believe God would have you stay in a marriage that is more like hell on earth than heaven on earth, then you are weak. you do not have to decide anything, you just have to 'follow' what you think are the rules or the advice of those who do not want the shame of a divorce in the family...all the while sleeping soundly at night and glad that they are not in those circumstances
yes God hates divorce. but does He possibly hate cheating, lying, abusive liars just a little more?
if appearance is the compass by which you make judgement or decision, then the word Pharisee might be applicable
the biggest part of counselling is listening
judging is not counselling
further, the best resolution is the one an actual counselor advocates for the person being counselled...the one the counselled person makes for themself
a counselor will not tell the person what to do unless the person is in actual physical danger and in that case, authorities should be involved...especially if there are also children
a counselor will advise AFTER listening because most people in a situation that requires counselling in the first place, want and NEED to be heard because no one is listening in the first place
when a person has their back up against the wall, they are in a situation where they feel choices have been taken from them. a counselor will, again, advise and discuss CHOICES
women, especially, will stay with an abuser, hoping they will change or thinking if they 'pray' enough (if they are a Christian) God will somehow 'get through' to the husband and turn him into Mr Wonderful...or at least Mr Tolerable. best to leave and then pray IMO but I'm not telling anyone what to do ... that is my opinion
the only people who enjoy bad marriages are the ones who create them. possessive, but not loving, demanding but not responsible,
taking without giving, will put up a big scene when the person they are abusing sounds like they might be growing a backbone etc etc
slapping a person with scripture or a big ole heavy Bible is NOT being godly. this is actually the reaction of a person who is threatened by something they understand as being black and white ... apply the rules according to your understanding and all the problems will go away
well no they won't. sin is always the problem but there are people who call themself 'Christian' because they go to church or consider themselves righteous in some way, but they do not emulate Christ and they make promises with no intention of keeping them and will prey on those who are WEAK because of their moral conscience
now how could I could call someone weak if they have a good conscience?
it's like this. if you believe God would have you stay in a marriage that is more like hell on earth than heaven on earth, then you are weak. you do not have to decide anything, you just have to 'follow' what you think are the rules or the advice of those who do not want the shame of a divorce in the family...all the while sleeping soundly at night and glad that they are not in those circumstances
yes God hates divorce. but does He possibly hate cheating, lying, abusive liars just a little more?
if appearance is the compass by which you make judgement or decision, then the word Pharisee might be applicable
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This may be something different from what you are saying, and I am springboarding off of it a bit. But I saw a video on YouTube where this man said if Jesus didn't tell you to get married, then your marriage may not be legitimate. God empowers human beings to marry. in the Old Testament, marriages with virgins were set up with men giving the bride's father a bride price. It doesn't say they had to hear a voice from God ordaining a specific marriage.
These are all bad things, or at least most of them. There are times a reasonable person may say something without maliciousness that might make another feel ashamed. Something reasonable and loving might be labeled as 'controlling' by someone else. There are times to be silent.
But in general these are bad behaviors.
So let's say there is a married man reading this forum. Though generally he and his wife get along, he had had a difficult time with his wife the previous day. Over the years, this man realizes that through many arguments, maybe one every month, that at various times his wife has discounted what he had to say, negated him, judged, and criticized him. She's said things that made him feel ashamed, blamed him. She has also given him the 'silent treatment' and been emotionally distant on occasion.
After reading your post, he concludes that God wants him to divorce his wife as an abuser.
But we are missing something. Do you have any scripture to show that this man or other victims of emotional abuse are supposed to get a divorce?
What about this verse?
I Peter 3
3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.
Have you ever engaged in any of the behaviors in your list?
Can you show any scriptures that allow someone to be divorced if their spouse blames them or has an unreasonable expectation, etc? Have you ever been married? If so does your spouse share these values? And if so, how many times?
Unless there is a need to talk over noise or someone is about to get hit by a bus, it is generally inappropriate to yell at your spouse. I'd venture to guess that most marital arguments that involve yelling involve one of the abusive behaviors in your list.
You wrote,
No, I did not see that. Let's look at what I actually wrote in the comment you are responding to:
There may be laws that use the word 'abuse.' But as far as I know, typically the operative word under Anglo legal systems is 'assault' and there is such thing as a one-off punch, and those are illegal,too.
So why did you just use an example of a man hitting a woman? Are you saying it is okay for a woman to hit a man....I'm just kidding. just applying your logic on the domestic violence comment.
In some cases, it might. There are psychopaths, there are people who are violent when provoked, and there are people who are violent if you irritate them in the least way. There are also those who hit back in self-defense. Then there are nice, normal, nonviolent people. There is a spectrum. The Duluth model does not describe everyone who has been in a domestic violence situation.
God's grace is powerful enough to redeem psychopaths, wife beaters, husband beaters and even child molesters and murderers.
I haven't heard of anyone arguing for men hitting or berating their wives, or vice versa on this thread. You went from arguing that someone is justified to get a divorce if their wife has unrealistic expectations to ....is that insinuating that I think domestic violence is okay? Am I reading too much into your comment?
According to I Peter 2, Peter expected there were slaves who were mistreated for being Christians and this was commendable before God. Peter pointed to the example of the suffering of Jesus as an example to follow.
But in general these are bad behaviors.
So let's say there is a married man reading this forum. Though generally he and his wife get along, he had had a difficult time with his wife the previous day. Over the years, this man realizes that through many arguments, maybe one every month, that at various times his wife has discounted what he had to say, negated him, judged, and criticized him. She's said things that made him feel ashamed, blamed him. She has also given him the 'silent treatment' and been emotionally distant on occasion.
After reading your post, he concludes that God wants him to divorce his wife as an abuser.
But we are missing something. Do you have any scripture to show that this man or other victims of emotional abuse are supposed to get a divorce?
What about this verse?
I Peter 3
3 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.
Have you ever engaged in any of the behaviors in your list?
Can you show any scriptures that allow someone to be divorced if their spouse blames them or has an unreasonable expectation, etc? Have you ever been married? If so does your spouse share these values? And if so, how many times?
Unless there is a need to talk over noise or someone is about to get hit by a bus, it is generally inappropriate to yell at your spouse. I'd venture to guess that most marital arguments that involve yelling involve one of the abusive behaviors in your list.
You wrote,
No, I did not see that. Let's look at what I actually wrote in the comment you are responding to:
There may be laws that use the word 'abuse.' But as far as I know, typically the operative word under Anglo legal systems is 'assault' and there is such thing as a one-off punch, and those are illegal,too.
So why did you just use an example of a man hitting a woman? Are you saying it is okay for a woman to hit a man....I'm just kidding. just applying your logic on the domestic violence comment.
In some cases, it might. There are psychopaths, there are people who are violent when provoked, and there are people who are violent if you irritate them in the least way. There are also those who hit back in self-defense. Then there are nice, normal, nonviolent people. There is a spectrum. The Duluth model does not describe everyone who has been in a domestic violence situation.
God's grace is powerful enough to redeem psychopaths, wife beaters, husband beaters and even child molesters and murderers.
I haven't heard of anyone arguing for men hitting or berating their wives, or vice versa on this thread. You went from arguing that someone is justified to get a divorce if their wife has unrealistic expectations to ....is that insinuating that I think domestic violence is okay? Am I reading too much into your comment?
According to I Peter 2, Peter expected there were slaves who were mistreated for being Christians and this was commendable before God. Peter pointed to the example of the suffering of Jesus as an example to follow.
I did not say it was not abuse. It might legitimately be considered emotional or verbal abuse. I have never said such a thing to my wife, and I would not encourage anyone else to. This was an example of something hurtful that might be labeled 'abuse'. But it isn't the same thing as punching or slapping someone. And many of the behaviors you listed as abuse are probably not as hurtful as the example I gave. I just don't see how that is Biblical grounds for divorce. People can repent, apologize, and move past things like that. There are also certain people who have mild forms of autism who lack empathy and do not realize their words can be hurtful. Where is the place for forgiveness and reconciliation.
I am still waiting for you to show us where the Bible teaches us to divorce if our spouse had said something emotionally abusive.
I am still waiting for you to show us where the Bible teaches us to divorce if our spouse had said something emotionally abusive.
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I think that the intent, the frequency, the level of malice is important to consider with emotional abuse.
I agree many people lack social skills, are emotionally immature, are not as empathetic and are not always aware of the impact of their careless words and while they do seek to inflict pain hopefully they have remorse.
However, one someone very intentionally and with malice seeks to harm someone on an emotional level and does so in a very calculating way with no remorse like many narcissists often do, I think that can be as bad as if not worse than physical abuse and that person will not likely change so best to get out.
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K
No I have not engaged in any behaviors on the list,nor has my husband done so to me. Why, because it's abuse. And being submissive doesn't mean you should stay and suffer abuse. The Bible tells us how a husband is to treat his wife if his prayers are to be answered.
1 Peter 7 -Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Eph.5 -So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Are you honestly trying to argue that God looks the other way when you emotionally /physically abuse your wife?!
As stated above I am married. Yes, my spouse absolutely shares these values. How many times? What is the question there?
Unless they are about to get hit by a bus? I think you know the point I'm making.
You insinuated that domestic abuse shelters are run by feminists. To your other point, if someone sees you lay your hands on your wife in the US the cops will be called and you will stand accused of domestic abuse. it is against the law.
Beat you to it, already said it was wrong earlier.
That is called victim blaming.
That is 100% true, but that doesn't mean a person should stay with an abusive spouse. God can redeem them all by themselves. Then they can make amends for the damage they have done.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into your comments, because you seem to be saying there is no such thing as emotional abuse and a punch or slap may not be so wrong either. Did I read you wrong? She had unrealistic expectations?
1 Cor. - ...each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Her husband was in the wrong, she did not have unrealistic expectations. Her husband wouldn't talk to her, would not go for help and would not do his duty as a husband. He, not she was in the wrong. And doubly so because he was having an affair with another woman.
1 Cor. - Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1 Peter 7 -Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Eph.5 -So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Are you honestly trying to argue that God looks the other way when you emotionally /physically abuse your wife?!
As stated above I am married. Yes, my spouse absolutely shares these values. How many times? What is the question there?
Unless they are about to get hit by a bus? I think you know the point I'm making.
You insinuated that domestic abuse shelters are run by feminists. To your other point, if someone sees you lay your hands on your wife in the US the cops will be called and you will stand accused of domestic abuse. it is against the law.
Beat you to it, already said it was wrong earlier.
That is called victim blaming.
That is 100% true, but that doesn't mean a person should stay with an abusive spouse. God can redeem them all by themselves. Then they can make amends for the damage they have done.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into your comments, because you seem to be saying there is no such thing as emotional abuse and a punch or slap may not be so wrong either. Did I read you wrong? She had unrealistic expectations?
1 Cor. - ...each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Her husband was in the wrong, she did not have unrealistic expectations. Her husband wouldn't talk to her, would not go for help and would not do his duty as a husband. He, not she was in the wrong. And doubly so because he was having an affair with another woman.
1 Cor. - Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
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