Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[eternally-gratefull]

Salvation really is quite simple:

The one who believes in Jesus Christ is saved and goes to heaven.
The one who does not believe in Jesus Christ is not saved and does not go to heaven.

Why make it complicated by trying to add formulas to what Scripture says?

Except you forget that part that the one who believes HAS eternal life. If that life can ever stop being life. it is not eternal. So whoever teaches that that life can be lost is depending on self for maintianing his salvation. And not God for keeping his promise (it is he who promised this gift to all who BELIEVE

Does the bible say eternal life or conditional life? Why do people want to make eternal life, something God says we HAVE, a conditional gift?

 

[Chester]

Yet they (the salvation losers) equate salvation to something that can be lost like a dime in the street....

Street Organ playing dogma is what they peddle

Lose salvation like a dime in the street?! I haven't seen that idea on CC except as an accusation against those who don't believe in OSAS!

It is utterly amazing how many eternal security people peddle that junk -->that those who don't believe in eternal security also believe that salvation is lost like a dime in the street! --- well please........it is rather accusatory and idiotic to boot!!

 

[Chester]

Except you forget that part that the one who believes HAS eternal life. If that life can ever stop being life. it is not eternal. So whoever teaches that that life can be lost is depending on self for maintianing his salvation. And not God for keeping his promise (it is he who promised this gift to all who BELIEVE

Does the bible say eternal life or conditional life? Why do people want to make eternal life, something God says we HAVE, a conditional gift?

I wasn't discussing eternal life, but I can add that to what I said . . .

The one who believes in Jesus Christ has eternal life and will go to heaven.
The one who does not believe in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life and will not go to heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wasn't discussing eternal life, but I can add that to what I said . . .

The one who believes in Jesus Christ has eternal life and will go to heaven.
The one who does not believe in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life and will not go to heaven.

Yes,

So if one HAS ETERNAL LIFE in their possession. Then that life, which God calls eternal. Can NEVER under ANY circumstances be lost. Otherwise, it is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. It is conditional life.

Eternal life is not some religious term, (Which sadly I think some churches have made it into, not saying you have) It is god telling us we have passed from death (spiritual) to Life (spiritual) or a term called regeneration, and that life is eternal.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lose salvation like a dime in the street?! I haven't seen that idea on CC except as an accusation against those who don't believe in OSAS!

It is utterly amazing how many eternal security people peddle that junk -->that those who don't believe in eternal security also believe that salvation is lost like a dime in the street! --- well please........it is rather accusatory and idiotic to boot!!

It does not matter if it is lost like a dime on a street or lost over a period of time, Same difference. And PS. There are some who state that salvation can be lost that fast! They think certain sins will cause you immediate loss of salvation. You may never have heard it. But many of us has. Just saying

 

[oyster67]

Yet they (the salvation losers) equate salvation to something that can be lost like a dime in the street....

Not true. This is the strawman to which I have been referring.

 

[Chester]

It does not matter if it is lost like a dime on a street or lost over a period of time, Same difference. And PS. There are some who state that salvation can be lost that fast! They think certain sins will cause you immediate loss of salvation. You may never have heard it. But many of us has. Just saying

You may be right that some peddle such a gospel (that salvation can be lost like a dime on the street!) - Sad indeed! I agree!

But then there are some who say that once you are saved you are always saved, and it does not matter how you live - and even if you sin like Hitler, it is OK and it does not matter. You may never have heard of it. But many of us has. Just saying . . .

 

[Chester]

Yes,

So if one HAS ETERNAL LIFE in their possession. Then that life, which God calls eternal. Can NEVER under ANY circumstances be lost. Otherwise, it is NOT ETERNAL LIFE. It is conditional life.

Eternal life is not some religious term, (Which sadly I think some churches have made it into, not saying you have) It is god telling us we have passed from death (spiritual) to Life (spiritual) or a term called regeneration, and that life is eternal.

So does what you said about eternal life above negate what I said . . .? that "The one who does not believe in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life and will not go to heaven."

(And by the way, I enjoy engaging with you because you do not get angry, or resort to strawmen, etc. - at least not most of the time - LOL!)

 

[oyster67]

It does not matter if it is lost like a dime on a street or lost over a period of time, Same difference.

It does matter. No, it is not same difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You may be right that some peddle such a gospel (that salvation can be lost like a dime on the street!) - Sad indeed! I agree!

But then there are some who say that once you are saved you are always saved, and it does not matter how you live - and even if you sin like Hitler, it is OK and it does not matter. You may never have heard of it. But many of us has. Just saying . . .

So, since they say we can be saved and sin like hitler. We should reject eternal security IN CHRIST. Because that such a major issue.

Well Jude responds to that. Calling them evil men, who turn the grace of God to licentiousness, whose destruction was predetermined. Meaning they were never saved to begin with. They had a claimed faith only, Not everyone who calls themselves a believer is a true believer, we have to remember that also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So does what you said about eternal life above negate what I said . . .? that "The one who does not believe in Jesus Christ does not have eternal life and will not go to heaven."

(And by the way, I enjoy engaging with you because you do not get angry, or resort to strawmen, etc. - at least not most of the time - LOL!)

One who does not believe is CONDEMNED ALREADY - (in the perfect tense in the greek) meaning it has been a state thay have always been in, It has never changed.

It does not fit thought that a person once believed and was saved at one time, then changed his mind (repented) and now no longer believes (essentially becoming an AntiChrist. We also have 1 John 2 which speaks about current antichrists who once were considered to be part of the church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It does matter. No, it is not same difference.

Its not? Says who?

Lost is lost. It does nto matter what one did to lose it. Or if it was lost because of one sin, Because of a multitude of sins, or juast the fact one stopped believeing, It is still lost. And is still saying eternal life, which one HAD, was never promised to be eternal to begin with, It was always conditional. In which case, why is God being so deceptive?

 

[Chester]

So, since they say we can be saved and sin like hitler. We should reject eternal security IN CHRIST. Because that such a major issue.

Well Jude responds to that. Calling them evil men, who turn the grace of God to licentiousness, whose destruction was predetermined. Meaning they were never saved to begin with. They had a claimed faith only, Not everyone who calls themselves a believer is a true believer, we have to remember that also.

Now that last paragraph I agree with completely - Amen! Except that with my theology all I have to say is that they are not believers and will not get to heaven. I do not have to make the judgement call that they never had true faith at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now that last paragraph I agree with completely - Amen! Except that with my theology all I have to say is that they are not believers and will not get to heaven. I do not have to make the judgement call that they never had true faith at all.

Well if you make a call they were saved and there was even a possibility they lost it. There would be some pretty big issues.

But that is why I will not argue this point to hard. Because we both agree, All unbelievers will not end up in heaven.

 

[Notes4God]

I believe the Bible is clear enough on this issue.

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us" 2 Timothy 2:12 KJV

What part of this Verse do you not understand? I myself am 100 %ly sure that salvation loss is possible.

I pretty much agree with your post because of the abundant amount of scripture and my own experiences. Arguments against it that use ideas and concepts out of context. There more from a "emotional" position than objectively examining what the whole counsel of God might be saying. I'm not 100% convinced but it seems to me it is very possible.

 

[oyster67]

Its not? Says who?

You were the one that started declaring that it did not matter.

Lost is lost. It does nto matter what one did to lose it. Or if it was lost because of one sin, Because of a multitude of sins, or juast the fact one stopped believeing, It is still lost.

Truth. And I think we can all agree that God is not deceptive. He said we must all abide in the vine.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Someone who says they could walk away suggests to me they don't know the Lord. They don't know His Goodness or His Mercy.

It suggests to me that they don't believe scripture nor the Power or Soveriegnty of God.

Why is there contention with this?

I am sorry. You stated you know following the Lord is the only way.
That is a choice and a perception. Because it is a choice, it is possible to go the other way.

If one could not walk away then there is no choice. This is the point about the reality of choices.
I have noticed that those who say once they are secure there is no choice, admit to get to this
point involves a choice, or else responding to the call is not a response but just God ordaining
people to salvation and others to damnation.

And it is this odd double thinking, we choose and yet we cannot choose to rebel.
In a marriage, when you get married you know the love that drives things forward, and you always
know this love could grow cold. Knowledge of good and evil, gives the one with the knowledge
a choice to follow each way and therefore carry the guilt of following evil.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hello FollowHisSteps.

We are under a New testament, and everyone under the old testament tried obtaining righteousness by deeds and observation of law.
The one that are truly born again, after a godly grief and sorrow, and sealed by the Spirit of God, and by the power and full assurance given by the Lord, can rest in full assurance that He is sealed until the day of redemption, as scripture teaches, and that nothing will be able to separate him or her from the love of God. Nothing.

People that turn from God under the New testament, will be delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and some will surely die - if they walk off in wilfull sin, but it is written that their spirit will be saved, but as through fire, in the day of Christ.
A believer in faith, does not continue in wilfull sin, and fulfill the law by faith.
Love is the fulfillment of the law, and God is love.
When a believer walks by faith, one is full of the Spirit of God - and therefore also able to walk in the fulfillment of the commandments of God - to love God, which is to believe on Him, and to love ourself and our neighbours.
Galatians 5:14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree:“Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Do not think for a second that God abandons the children He adopts, it is evident that you stumble in your teaching.
He is the one that came to us, and our faith works by the love He has for us.
He is the one that came to serve us, and all we can do is to cry out for His mercy.
He is the one that exalted the guests eating at His table.
Faith works by love, and this love is the love that God has for us.
He came to save us, and righteousness and true liberty is found in Jesus Christ and the message of His cross.
Nothing else.

You are walking on very dangerous paths if you claim faith, and preach a trust in law, and trust in anything else than the rock.
That means you are climbing the fence. Remember that Jesus says; "I never knew you" to some, at that day. I know God, and I am known of Him. Nothing will be able to take the seal of the Spirit of God away. It is the seal of Spirit, and not of flesh.
I am His, for all of eternity.

Galatians 4:9 -
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?


The cross is the reason for persecution.
The power, and wisdom of God.
Where righteousness is found, by faith in what Jesus Christ has fulfilled, and done.

Gods does not change.
The Lord calls us to follow, to obey, to become a follower, to be born from on high.

There is a line, drawn from eternity, the elect follow, the rest fall away.

The kingdom of light is founded on love and forgiveness.
Those of the Kingdom follow this, the others follow the world.

You can only stand in the Kingdom because your heart has been changed.
And to walk like this we can only do this in the Holy Spirit and being transformed by Christ working
in us.

Those who cry compromise, defeat, ignoring repentance, sorrow, open hearted confession and
showing encouragement and love one to another, simply have left the way, and may never have
truly known it.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

A deceptive lie

We are so concerned for the struggling believers who find it impossible to repent and leave
will full sin, so we must just show them love and not point out the obvious failure to let God
into their hearts and change them.

But the truth is those who speak about not being cleansed or repenting in sorrow, or of
getting right with the Lord, are just sinners wishing to get into heaven without faith or change.

And the truth is there is no compromise. Love does not accept evil or impurity, it goes the other
way. And no matter the arguments, those born of God will always choose love over the world
and its ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You were the one that started declaring that it did not matter.

Yep. And I have as of yet been proven wrong.

Truth. And I think we can all agree that God is not deceptive. He said we must all abide in the vine.

Yes, if we want to bear fruit.

Last I checked, Bearing fruit is not the same as being saved.